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I mostly do male renders and I own a lot of male content, but yeah, this type of art does have a rep re: 3D erotica (although I hear way more about Poser being attached to that, just because Poser is what people are more name-familiar with). I don't believe it's entirely a case of that driving people away, though--and in fact there are probably a lot of people doing erotic male content who find that a plus. I think it's also that certain demographics (older guys) skew more toward being able to afford huge investments of money in a hobby in general. It seems like there are a lot of women and LGBT+ folks in the forum community, which is awesome, but as with any online shopping thing the vast majority of buyers probably don't participate.
i'm starting to feel which things are going from just "complain" to some sort of threat specially when you start that "place A or B is calling then this or that, to be fair i come here "for game design because some of my friends and even in internet i get some peoples talking about use daz for game, which while is not the focus and i've already understood it, it don't means which i can't find things which can be usable for game like some really nice and "moderate to low polly outfits which i'm already using.
Remember while we still have the rules of "what sells more we also have the rules of the artist do what he likes, if the majority of the artists like to do more female and more quality on female stuffs then somehow we must respect because this is they choice and freedom which is what matter, force someone to make something he don't want just because we want is not fair or good.
I don't see this as heading that direction at all.
I honestly don't think the male Pro packs have the qualitiy fo the female pro packs. I'm still waiting for content in Landon to be fixed. It has been months.
There are plenty of pa's who make excellent male content though Redz, Phx1999 and of course the Amazing Hellboy. Then there is Rawart, who gives us some great male monsters! I'm sure those sell since he does keep making them.
I honestly wish Hellboy would've made his MAXX into a pro bundle figure with some cute bara friends, because honestly. MAXX is one of the best figures in the store, and the detail, work on it is amazing, plus his bikini, and bodyhair? Amazing!
Then there is Male-M3dia who always makes a very quality product. Lots of attention to detail with his work. He includes JCMS that work well, and he includes morphs that you don't find anywhere else in the store.
These days I prefer quality over quantity. So, I am willing to wait for it.
I would like to see another male pro bundle, just because with the pro bundle there is usually a lot of items to use for kitbashing, but I guess I will save my money until the next new figure comes out. I honestly have more females than I will ever use, so I can't justify any more.
That's really interesting information. Thank you for sharing it.
If you're trying to build a world, and you want your main characters to look convincing in closeups, and you don't want them to look like they came from two sisters who married two brothers, then you need actual diversity. But Daz evidently can't make enough money selling diversity. They need indeterminate-to-teenaged white women to make money. And only a certain type of teenaged white woman at that. However, it seems that Daz has discovered that older white women sell comparatively well too.
Yet, by increasing their output of Core figures, they have managed to give us the most diversity we've ever had in one generation as well as a plethora of teenaged-to-middleaged white women to move their bottom line. I'd really like an additional three or four well-made, exqisitely skinned men in this generation, but it looks like the men are getting smooth-faced (Silas, Diego, Sanjay). I still can't suss Elios' skin.
For clothing, buy all of Luthbel and as much of IHKang and Mada as you can. Mada's sci-fi/adventure gear for men works/looks great when stripped down to shirt and pants for everyday wear, and she supplies morphs where we need them. Luthbel's Genesis 2 and 3 stuff autofits exceedingly well, and if---underneath the clothes---you morph a Genesis 8 Base male body for the shape you want (rather than using a shape that's going to cause pec hug or some other artifact), then your results will be even more lifelike.
I'm telling you, things look pretty good for men around here. Unless you compare them to females. Don't do it: Apples and oranges. Compare Genesis 8 Males to Genesis 3 and 2 Males, and you'll get a truer perspective. Genesis 2 had 3 superlative skins (Darius, Gianni, Michael), but there were only 6 of them. Genesis 3 had 5 superlative skins (Kimo, Michael, Lee, Darius, Elijah), but there were only thirteen of them.
Genesis 8 has 10 superlative skins (Nix, Floyd, Ollie, Vladimir, Michael, Edward, Christian, Darius, Mr Woo, Owen) and most of the others are decent (if you edit their SSS maps). But we've got 20 well-done morphs and skins to work with (19 if you don't count Lucas, which I can understand if you don't). And this is basically due to Daz affirmative action, since they make half as much or less off the male releases.
We're not doing too badly in Genesis 8, and all the guys from Genesis 3 still work just fine next to their younger brethren. But just look at them.
I'm not a PA at Daz (although I would like to be eventually) and only have my own data to go on, but the sales combined for the 3 male characters I've made is around 60% of the total sales of the 1 female character I've released. Prices do vary, but even looking at just the number of individual sales I still sell 1 male for every 3 females sold.
The biggest factor that allows me to continue working on male content is that the characters have been commissioned by people who are able to do so, which in turn reduces the amount of external sales I need to break even. I do want to focus on just male content, but it's not always financially viable which is a shame as that is what I prefer to create.
Creating content to a decent standard takes a lot of time and work, and female products tend to have lower risk for higher reward. It's easy to see why artists trying to make a living from their skills focus on the highest selling content types.
I wish there wasn't such a stark difference in demand between the genders, and I do feel that male content gets less love and fanfare from Daz. But as with any business, the numbers will drive the direction. If Daz and other platforms see higher sales of female focused content, artists will lean towards creating that resulting in a larger selection of female content.
By having a large amount of female content for sale, the store will attract more people with that specific interest, which then turns into more sales for female content, which leads to artists wanting to create even more female content, which leads to a larger variety of female content, which attracts more people with that specific interest…
Bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy really.
I don’t know the solution, or if there even is a realistic one aside from supporting those who make content that suit your interests. But as long as there is a significantly larger group of people purchasing female content than male, there will be more content produced for females.
Cheers,
Daniel
Yeah, I put in a ticket after Yuzuru was released because the Yuzuru hair didn't have a subcategory in hair, when you click on the hair tab in the content panel it showed up, and then there was a new tab called materials under hair where I found the materials for the hair itself. I'm sure there's a way to organize things with different names, I just don't know how, so I put in a ticket to say there should be a Yuzuru hair folder, and the customer service girl was extremely nice and told me she'd pass it along, and a few weeks later she emailed me back saying she was still waiting, and that was the last I heard. I'd like to believe it can't be that hard to set up an update that would give the hair the proper folder with everything together.
speaking of raining be it cats and dogs or men
is there an actual collapsable umbrella anywhere?
could a dforce one be made?
I believe it is a mistake to believe that the issue being discussed is all about DAZ3D or male 3D content in general. I believe the issue is far more fundamental than that. A wise man once said, "if you wish to know where you are going, you must know where you have come from".
Long before there was a DAZ3D, or even a Poser, there was Mattel. How many of you ladies out there had a Barbie doll? How many of you had more than one? Now, how many of you had a Ken? How many of you had more than one? If you did have one, how much clothing did you have for him? How much clothing did you have for your Barbies? Barbie got a pink Corvette. Sometimes Ken might be allowed to ride in the passenger seat. But hey, what about G.I. Joe? Well, he never was a competitor for Barbie, sales-wise. And of the kids that actually were interested, I don't think many were particularly concerned with the size of his wardrobe.
But we can go even further back, and have a look at the fashion industry. In the beginning, that industry primarily catered to a female clientele, as indeed it still does today. I am quite certain that most fashion designers would voice the same sentiment that we hear from DAZ PA's: male content doesn't sell (or, at least, far more money can be made by designing and selling female content). And there's a reason for that. The vast majority of men really don't care that much about what they're wearing. Look at any black tie gala event and each woman will be seen wearing a designer dress or gown, and would tend to be mortified if any other woman showed up in the same thing. The men? They mostly tend to be wearing the same sort of black tux that all the other men are wearing, and could care less.
If we look at the origins of DAZ3D itself, it all started with Victoria, The Millenium Woman. Not a guy. Sure, eventually Michael came along, and David to round out the offerings, but the girls always came first. And most content was made for them. Because that is what sold. Victoria was the virtual Barbie and there was a whole world of fashion waiting to be created for her. What's more, not only the female customers were interested, a whole load of male customers were also interested in dressing up these 3D models in all manner of fantasy wear and rendering pictures of them. Michael et al? Well sometimes you needed a guy in the scene, so suit, or jeans and a T-shirt, or possibly a suit of armour. Good enough. Nobody's going to be interested in him anyway, he's just a prop like the stone throne or brazier.
The point is, the market reflects the demographics of the society in which we live. There will always be those that march to the beat of a different drummer and want something different, both in terms of 3D content and the world around us, but the majority rules. Me? Well, to be honest, I'm more concerned with finding a good inkjet printer that isn't a self-destructing piece of crap that is lucky to outlast its first set of cardtridges. I'm not going to get upset about a lack of 3D content, by comparison.
It seems like you're not the only one with the same opinion. I agree, this sucks. Why so much female content, I mean.... the other day, we got a single release for G8M and people were complaining of how "generic" he looks. Like, seriously? The only content we get once in a while and people vote it down. On the other side, every female pro bundle includes similar dresses, characters are all the same...
What do we have to do to get MORE male content? I think there is about 25 more female pro bundles now than males. If this trend continues, I will have to stop using DazStudio and start sculpting my own characters :(
Hi, would you be able to link me up with the mentioned PA's stores? I cannot find them or their products here... I would love to buy more male content, as long it's high quality
https://www.daz3d.com/hellboy
https://www.daz3d.com/phoenix1966
https://www.daz3d.com/redzstudio
You will also find Phoenix1966 and redzstudio over at rendo.
And also, i bought female clothing pieces for kitbash purposes. I don't always find clothing that I like for my males. Luckily I was able to get Marvelous Designer this Black Friday with a good discount so I will learn to create clothing pieces for males.
I'm in a lot of niches so majority of my purchases are environments, props, light sets and other tools. I don't own many characters, clothing sets and I have few hair sets. I want to support artists that create Male content because I believe voting with my wallet is the only way to encourage PAs to create more male content. But at the end this means I have to buy a lot if stuff that I will never use in my renders and I feel sad for it.
I have all of your males so far. I don't have the female. LOL
Maybe the times they are a'changin' ;)
Laurie
+1
I had 1 Barbie and 1 Ken. Barbie had more clothing, but that was simply because there was hardly any clothing produced for him. The shop had maybe one set for Ken for every 50 for Barbie. Can't buy what isn't there.
Actually buy it / convince more people to buy it when it is produced, so that it become cost-effective for PAs to produce more.
Go to the store page, right at the top is a blue header with Daz3 d's name, under this is a black bar, all the way to the right on the black bar, click vendor- easy to find everybody by name there. And here is the link that was missed: https://www.daz3d.com/male-m3dia. As Serene noted, lots of great morphs in his store.
Even in most fine art, you will often see many more females ( unless you are looking in a specific topic like, battle paintings). I don't know why this is, unless it is that more women enjoy looking at beautiful females than the number of men who enjoy looking at gorgeous men? I read an informal study of gamers showing that when given a choice, many men preferred to 'man' a female toon, and almost all the women chose the female toons also.
Although, even if you-the-poster do buy the content it still needs other to buy. The most effective thing you can do to promote male content is get other users interested in it (which is one of the things the Raining Men render challenge hopes to help with).
My theory for the immediate overflow of Genesis 8 females is just to get whatever is in the pipeline out before the new generation arrives.
Agreed. Also get more users into DS and purchasing from the store. The more customers, the less the risk when creating more niche products.
But its been hiden away in the Art forum, if it was in the Commons it would get a lot more exposure.
but that is the appropriate forum for render challenges and showcasing images, is it not?
Seems to depend and it certainly hasn't always been that way.
Or it would get lost among the constant flow of new threads there.
There is that possibility but there is also the possibility that it would get a lot more people visiting it and therfore keep it on the front page, even if it wasn't the actual renders thread but the discussion thread.
it never occurs to me to look in the art forum
if you don't want me to know about something, put it in the art forum lol
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussions
I always just use this link to get to the forums, so I am "forum agnostic".
Exactly.
Maybe. I usually use the "Recent discussion" page so what section a particular thread is posted in is not really relevant to me, but I suppose other people only visit specific sections...