It's not exactly raining men....
Hera
Posts: 1,960
in The Commons
I know DAZ has been unbiased to male figurs for years and years now, but this is getting ridiculous! What is this, the 4th or 5th female in a row?? (I'm not counting the centraurs then...)
I really came here today hoping for perhaps an elven man or Gianni 8 or something.
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Comments
not even drizzling
i hoping for a counterpart to the new Janna figure.
No, it isn't.
It is unfortuneate that your interests lean towards a product line that consistently sells less.
The only reason male characters and content don't sell as well is because there isn't as much of it to buy. If they would offer more male content, I'm sure it would sell. I'm also disappointed that we have yet another female characater. I've been waiting for a new male character for a while now. Reading the forums here, I'm seeing a whole lot of people who are asking for male content and characters, but this is very limited, which is why it doesn't sell well. We can't buy things that don't exist. Wishing for Gianni 8.
Heh, I suppose it's depending on the male figure if it sells or not. I'm not looking for another pretty boy, but if they bring in another Ivan or something similar, then I'm interested. He's by far my favourite G3 male, and I even liked most of the addon characters. He can be a barbarian, gangster, detective or whatever. What can I say, I like my girls young and pretty, but my guys need charisma
I see that argument.
But folks go off what does sell, of what is released.
Doesn't matter how much is made, if when it is made, it sells fewer than the female countepart, it means the PA takes a cut; Zev0 (as an example - I think I'm remembering the PA correctly) has often stated that like-for-like products sell significantly different numbers
... So whilst you can't buy what doesn't exist, when it does exist, not enough folks buy it.
Not the only reason. Add to that, in most cases male character bundles also get a less good deal applied to them. So DAZ helps to build a self fulfilling prophecy...
That's long been a problem here voiced by those who really know. The male content just does not sell well. I wish it did.
That simply isn't true.
PAs have REPEATEDLY observed products that are released male and female. Males very very commonly sell a fraction of what females sell. For the same product (basically), from the same vendor.
There are exceptions, and some people manage to do well with male content, but that's very broadly the situation.
Now, the situation snowballs from there. But it all starts from customer demand.
and apparently so we have been told, the number of people who post on the forum are less than 10% of the market.
There is a huge number of people out there rendering women in fantasy skimpwear with high heels
It bugs, but yelling about it does little and becoming bitter about it helps no one.
(Not that I'm accusing the OP or anyone specifically of being bitter... I'm just sayin')
I've made my peace with it. And to be honest, while there is far less male content out there than female content, there's still a lot to play around with! I have a lot in my library that I've barely/never used for a render, so I try to focus less on purchasing and more on using what I have.
The only thing that really irritates me is the lack of a male counterpart to Sakura 8. Because of the geografts, and because her look is so specific, it's impossible to dial/morph/transfer a male counterpart yourself. Or at least I don't know how. If there is a way, please do let me know!
(I'm aware of Sasuke. I'm talking about a real male counterpart that can use all my male morphs and geografts!)
Male skin resources from resource sites are also less offerings than female skins
male skin resources are the same ones, over and over and over
yeah put me on that i would love to be a more balance between male and female, specially when a "new specie" appear and we get or only malee or only female, for exemple i'm totally in love with this product:
https://www.daz3d.com/aureska-hol-hd-for-zelara-8
it's annoying me which we don't have a "male version for her" just a exemple, this is what make me wish G8 was less or more like G1 where male and female used the same "base mesh" then wit just a dial you could turn a male in a female and have both male and female morphs to use(it also would reduce the number of products needed to buy), while in general i like to have male and female being different meshs, the fact which we have some inbalance between "male" and female also annoying me.
About the "skimp or impractical armor, my only real issues are the "highheels" because as aways i've told even animes which are "very skimp", rarelly use highheels, specially for armors, because they indeed are very impratical, in a fantasy/ medieval or even battle settings and making things look weird, i'm not saying which we can't have high heels sometimes and can't ignore the "practical" effect here and there, but the problem is which the "ignore" happens too much here, most of the armos and fantasy settings outfits does have high heels, even when you have a armor with a "male and female" versions the male is a normal boot the female is a high heels, it's really weird..
the other problem of impractical for me could not be being skimp" i don't even have problem if males does have a skimp armor too, my problem could be things like that armor:
https://www.daz3d.com/iron-warrior-for-genesis-8-females, not only high heels but also those things around her "waist" man while it can maybe look cool(i honestly don't see it being cool even if was a male), it is ridiculous impractical, not because of skin exposure but because of that things could easy me a issue for the woman wearing it tool, because it could be hard to walk and have to pay attention to not keep hitting those things with her arms or during a battle accidently getting hitting on that, being skimp itself for me is not a issue specially if you know how to "fix it" adding a "underlay armor into the needed parts or something like that, for exemple michal 8 does also have a skimp armor
https://www.daz3d.com/dark-prince-outfit-for-genesis-8-male-s
and i do feel it's cool, i even made it usable to females, even edward 8 does have a armor which is "not perfect practical" but still good enough for me
https://www.daz3d.com/edward-8-pro-bundle
i really would love to see less "high heels and more "boots type for armors.
but overal i agree about have a better balance between male and female.
I've been concentrating my purchases on males this last week ... with the sales etc I've gathered up 4 male pro bundles. How many do we need really?
I have to say it's the first time the male version out sold the female on the latest products, so maybe to tide is turning !!!
978.
...Well, you did ask!
Feels bad for the people who want quality men clothing / figures.
My male characters tend to sell as well or better than the females. I do especially enjoy making male characters though. For hairs, I often design initially on a male base, but make them unisex to boost sales potential.
Quality male clothing content is always going to be difficult because it’s usually not skimp-wear and dForce doesn’t play so well with sharp tailoring.
I may be alone in this, but unless it's a super flowy dress, dforce is overrated. I'd take a high quality sharply tailored men's suit that not dforce, over something lower quality that's dforce just because.
You are not alone.
Says the man with the amazing male dress uniform that is nowhere to be sold, LOL I don't purchase much male content, but I would buy that in a heartbeat!
men's pants always look too big in the thighs ... not sure what that is really. and now men wear skinny jeans and all that. cant they be made just like real jeans..slim fit, regular, boot, and all that?
anyway, i would like to see some haggard and tired women and men ... like too much meth, etc ..hard livin. clothes to match. some good nasty wine and whiskey bottles ... too much cigatettes, yellow fingernails and lips. wrinkled, skin dried out from too much sun. tan mixed with dirt for that well worn look. etc etc etc
The fact that you enjoy it shines through every man you make. Thank you for your dedication to excellence, and I'm a big fan of your new partnership with gypsyangel.
I wish you felt bad enough to learn Daz rigging and make your excellent creations available in Daz Studio.
I almost always buy new male figures but we get so many females that sometimes I skip them unless they're super interesting and then grab them in a sale.
When it comes to male figures I tend to look for "realistic" men. I know that is a super subjective term. I also try to grab realistic looking male clothes though the stuff I really want is super hard to find. I'd murder for a good Sheriff outfit for example.
Of course, I'm that rare person that rarely buys skimpwear for females as well. For one thing, to my eye it's less value for my money as I get like a tiny loin cloth and tassles for the same prices as a full outfit.
Daz Studio has limited visibility and pickup among groups who would be likely to create higher demand for male content, and who would potentially be interested in creating more of that content as part of their hobby, regardless of the existing market for it. In the time I've been part of fandom, for example (20+ years) I've seen cosplay go from something that required prohibitive amounts of money and time to a more common avenue for casual self-expression, largely due to community support. People started selling tools and materials specifically for other cosplayers with the goal of growing the community, and it worked. That could also work for Daz, it's just a matter of it gaining traction.
This isn't something that's on current PAs to do; it mostly requires expanding awareness of the program to fandom and fandom-adjacent art communities, who are interested in creating art with all types of characters. The challenge is that they tend not to pick up new tools en masse unless they see examples of trusted people in their sphere using them, mostly because there's so many different ways to learn, lots of people are self-taught, and they rely on peer vetting to know whether or not something is worth their time. And because perception of 3D art exists in a weird space where it's both considered expensive/prestigious to learn to do beautiful work and cheap/cheesy otherwise, I've found it's common for people to see DS art and assume it's at the high end of difficult-to-produce, and therefore out of reach.
One of Clip Studio Paint's big selling points that's super exciting to fanartists is that they have 3D models you can pose and use for reference, and they're little featureless anime dolls (still very useful!). I've seen some artists selling 3D pose reference packs on art sites that are just renders of the basic poses that come with a free DS install from different angles. A really popular DS artist I follow does fanart and has to clarify in her bio that it's not cosplay. Commercial artists know about DS but very few talk about it. I found it literally by accident and my life would be entirely different if I hadn't.
If the market expands quite a bit, it's safer for artists to try serving niche markets even if they aren't the most lucrative. Especially if new artists coming in are part of that market.
Admittedly, my products are not clothes or figures, but even with scripts and poses, the male products sold a fraction of the female products:
The Essential Poses for the Centaur 7 are the only product I have where the male product outsold the female product.
I think a quality product with good promos and a good deal will sell. End of story. Daz has very rarely done all 3 at once for male characters. If they didn't sell previously, then they didn't have the quality people are looking for. That's cold, I know, but I believe if there was truly high quality realistic man that rivaled the likes of a Bluejaunte female, that product would sell. We do not have that right now. We have never had that, and it seems like we never will.
Also, Daz owns the store. They get 40-50% of every single sale in this store, and 100% on their DO's. It would seem logical to me to have more balance in the DO core lineup as a matter of making the store more well rounded as a whole, instead of catering to literally one demographic over and over. You want women, people can still have women as they are all over the store. But how about mixing up the Daz line up too?
I mean...Daz has a certain...reputation...out there, like scantily clad Victoria wielding a sword, that's how this place is viewed. Releasing 4 females in a row, 4 in a single month, only perpetuates that reputation ever further. I do not tell anybody about my Daz hobby, most have never heard of it, but I worry the ones that have might be like "Oh, that's the place they get the 3D pron from, huh?" That is when I have to throw a smoke bomb or jump out the window, whichever is more convenient at the time. I really hate breaking through windows, but I tend not to keep an ample enough supply of smoke bombs on hand. You can't buy them in bulk from Costco, you know.
Having that diversity isn't just about the constant bottom line every week or two. Its about having some balance to attract more people of all kinds into the Daz store. By catering to that one demo so much, I wonder if others who might be interested in men may have simply left by now. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
To me, the Daz Original Core lineup should be something that shows of the best of Daz, something that should be diverse by its very nature. I frankly do not see that. There are frequently better models by 3rd parties both here and at other stores. And even when some models are by known PAs, like Rarestone or Thorn, their DO models have fewer features than the non-DO versions! What is the point of the Daz Original line anymore? Its been watered down to a meme at this point.