Had I known

outrider42 · November 2019

I can understand the sentiment, but only to a degree. Technology is always changing. There are a lot of factors going on. 3DL is purely CPU, and by 2015, the year Daz brought Iray in, desktops were limited to 4 cores. You could not get more than 4 cores without spending massive amounts of money. AMD Ryzen was still 2 years away, and in 2015 no one could have predicted AMD would make the comeback it did with Ryzen.

This lack of innovation in CPU basically handicapped 3DL. GPU render engines were taking off, and they were fast. And 3DL itself fell onto some harder times. You used to be able to find Hollywood movies using 3DL, a testimont to its capability, but today you wont find any movies that use 3DL. Its almost like 3DL fell off a cliff. And their staff acknowledges this. I saw a video where they were discussing some new features, and the presenter openly joked about their situation.

Richard Haseltine said:

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

@L'Adair and @kyoto kid

If DAZ truly supported 3Delight, they would update their 3DL implementation to include a script for end users to access the built in PATHTRACER. Surely they could do it if end users have done it? They could include a PBR shader, just like the DS default shader, to be used with the pathtracer for PBR rendering. This is in my humble opinion the very least they could do IF they supported 3Delight. However, it is my belief that 3DL is still included in DS as long as there are 3Delight only products in their store.

While DS does have the full version of 3DL (yeah I know it's several builds older than the current 3DL), what DAZ doesn't have is a license agreement that allows them to use it all.
It doesn't stop some 3rd party from accessing the full 3DL in DS, but it does hamstring DAZ from doing it.

If the Daz license didn't allow its use it wouldn't be available through script - that doesn't get added by accident.

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

fastbike1 said:

@Barric

Not buying the argument. Legacy stuff from DAZ3D will still work, 3DL is still usable within Studio.

In all fairness, there are pre- IRay products that don't work in the newer DS builds. The AoA lights and effect cameras, to name a few, are partially or completely broken. No way to roll back to an older build if you would like to use them. Waist of money.

In what way aren't they working ?

A couple of year back one of my friends was having issues with the ambient lights, turns out DIM wasn't installing the Definition and Shader files properly. They are meant to go in AppData but DIM can make a right mess of getting in there at times, so a quick manual install later and they were working.

So it might be something like that causing them not to work, or they might need to be recompiled to work with the current DS version of 3DL.

If this is the case, then why didn't Daz do this themselves? Why didn't Daz add a feature to Studio to unlock 3DL for its users? Wouldn't that have been ideal? These features have been there for quite a long time, too.

While 3DL didn't help itself, Daz played its own role in its fall in this store. Passing all accountability to customers and PAs for adopting Iray is simply not right. Daz at any point in time could have updated 3DL and made it more viable...but they chose not to do this. By choosing not to make any changes to 3DL (when all it needed was a script!!), Daz chose to allow Iray to take the lead it did. Daz made its choice.

After all, Ryzen came out in 2017 and radically altered what a desktop could do. If Daz had unlocked 3DL before 2017 and made that script part of Studio, then the 3DL and Iray dynamic in the store could have been completely changed. I personally believe we would have a lot more support for 3DL in the store had this happened.

Richard Haseltine · November 2019

outrider42 said:
I can understand the sentiment, but only to a degree. Technology is always changing. There are a lot of factors going on. 3DL is purely CPU, and by 2015, the year Daz brought Iray in, desktops were limited to 4 cores. You could not get more than 4 cores without spending massive amounts of money. AMD Ryzen was still 2 years away, and in 2015 no one could have predicted AMD would make the comeback it did with Ryzen.

This lack of innovation in CPU basically handicapped 3DL. GPU render engines were taking off, and they were fast. And 3DL itself fell onto some harder times. You used to be able to find Hollywood movies using 3DL, a testimont to its capability, but today you wont find any movies that use 3DL. Its almost like 3DL fell off a cliff. And their staff acknowledges this. I saw a video where they were discussing some new features, and the presenter openly joked about their situation.

Richard Haseltine said:

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

@L'Adair and @kyoto kid

If DAZ truly supported 3Delight, they would update their 3DL implementation to include a script for end users to access the built in PATHTRACER. Surely they could do it if end users have done it? They could include a PBR shader, just like the DS default shader, to be used with the pathtracer for PBR rendering. This is in my humble opinion the very least they could do IF they supported 3Delight. However, it is my belief that 3DL is still included in DS as long as there are 3Delight only products in their store.

While DS does have the full version of 3DL (yeah I know it's several builds older than the current 3DL), what DAZ doesn't have is a license agreement that allows them to use it all.
It doesn't stop some 3rd party from accessing the full 3DL in DS, but it does hamstring DAZ from doing it.

If the Daz license didn't allow its use it wouldn't be available through script - that doesn't get added by accident.

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

fastbike1 said:

@Barric

Not buying the argument. Legacy stuff from DAZ3D will still work, 3DL is still usable within Studio.

In all fairness, there are pre- IRay products that don't work in the newer DS builds. The AoA lights and effect cameras, to name a few, are partially or completely broken. No way to roll back to an older build if you would like to use them. Waist of money.

In what way aren't they working ?

A couple of year back one of my friends was having issues with the ambient lights, turns out DIM wasn't installing the Definition and Shader files properly. They are meant to go in AppData but DIM can make a right mess of getting in there at times, so a quick manual install later and they were working.

So it might be something like that causing them not to work, or they might need to be recompiled to work with the current DS version of 3DL.

If this is the case, then why didn't Daz do this themselves? Why didn't Daz add a feature to Studio to unlock 3DL for its users? Wouldn't that have been ideal? These features have been there for quite a long time, too.

While 3DL didn't help itself, Daz played its own role in its fall in this store. Passing all accountability to customers and PAs for adopting Iray is simply not right. Daz at any point in time could have updated 3DL and made it more viable...but they chose not to do this. By choosing not to make any changes to 3DL (when all it needed was a script!!), Daz chose to allow Iray to take the lead it did. Daz made its choice.

After all, Ryzen came out in 2017 and radically altered what a desktop could do. If Daz had unlocked 3DL before 2017 and made that script part of Studio, then the 3DL and Iray dynamic in the store could have been completely changed. I personally believe we would have a lot more support for 3DL in the store had this happened.

The features were never locked, once they were in 3delight, as far as I know - but daz has limited resources and apparently writing, or comissioning, an enhnaced shader didn't make the cut for implementation (assuming it was considered).

Richard Haseltine · November 2019

Mystarra said:

if you want to use a newer iray shader on an older v1 or 2 skin, hold the shift key when applying the shader.

you'll get the shader setting but it will retain the texture map.

kewl feature.

i remember when sss was the bee's knees of skin shading.
in the days of fast scatter. or is it knees bees?

Shift uses the rpeferred options, if they've beens et. To set the preferred state, or to make other selections, hold down cmd(Mac)/ctrl(Win) instead.

Eden Evergreen · November 2019

Some PA's are trying to bridge the gap. For example, https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-iray-to-3delight-converter-and-merchant-resource

Sven Dullah · November 2019

Bejaymac said:

While DS does have the full version of 3DL (yeah I know it's several builds older than the current 3DL), what DAZ doesn't have is a license agreement that allows them to use it all.

Btw, 3Delight 12 is the latest version available, and it's been in DS from the 4.8 build onwards. So it's up to date, but DAZ could have made it possible to access the raytracer module from inside the render settings. Well you can actually do that by enabling progressive mode, but that does use a lot of shortcuts for fast raytracing, since it is meant for fast previewing.

outrider42 said:
I can understand the sentiment, but only to a degree. Technology is always changing. There are a lot of factors going on. 3DL is purely CPU, and by 2015, the year Daz brought Iray in, desktops were limited to 4 cores. You could not get more than 4 cores without spending massive amounts of money. AMD Ryzen was still 2 years away, and in 2015 no one could have predicted AMD would make the comeback it did with Ryzen.

This lack of innovation in CPU basically handicapped 3DL. GPU render engines were taking off, and they were fast. And 3DL itself fell onto some harder times. You used to be able to find Hollywood movies using 3DL, a testimont to its capability, but today you wont find any movies that use 3DL. Its almost like 3DL fell off a cliff. And their staff acknowledges this. I saw a video where they were discussing some new features, and the presenter openly joked about their situation.

Richard Haseltine said:

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

@L'Adair and @kyoto kid

If DAZ truly supported 3Delight, they would update their 3DL implementation to include a script for end users to access the built in PATHTRACER. Surely they could do it if end users have done it? They could include a PBR shader, just like the DS default shader, to be used with the pathtracer for PBR rendering. This is in my humble opinion the very least they could do IF they supported 3Delight. However, it is my belief that 3DL is still included in DS as long as there are 3Delight only products in their store.

While DS does have the full version of 3DL (yeah I know it's several builds older than the current 3DL), what DAZ doesn't have is a license agreement that allows them to use it all.
It doesn't stop some 3rd party from accessing the full 3DL in DS, but it does hamstring DAZ from doing it.

If the Daz license didn't allow its use it wouldn't be available through script - that doesn't get added by accident.

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

fastbike1 said:

@Barric

Not buying the argument. Legacy stuff from DAZ3D will still work, 3DL is still usable within Studio.

In all fairness, there are pre- IRay products that don't work in the newer DS builds. The AoA lights and effect cameras, to name a few, are partially or completely broken. No way to roll back to an older build if you would like to use them. Waist of money.

In what way aren't they working ?

A couple of year back one of my friends was having issues with the ambient lights, turns out DIM wasn't installing the Definition and Shader files properly. They are meant to go in AppData but DIM can make a right mess of getting in there at times, so a quick manual install later and they were working.

So it might be something like that causing them not to work, or they might need to be recompiled to work with the current DS version of 3DL.

If this is the case, then why didn't Daz do this themselves? Why didn't Daz add a feature to Studio to unlock 3DL for its users? Wouldn't that have been ideal? These features have been there for quite a long time, too.

While 3DL didn't help itself, Daz played its own role in its fall in this store. Passing all accountability to customers and PAs for adopting Iray is simply not right. Daz at any point in time could have updated 3DL and made it more viable...but they chose not to do this. By choosing not to make any changes to 3DL (when all it needed was a script!!), Daz chose to allow Iray to take the lead it did. Daz made its choice.

After all, Ryzen came out in 2017 and radically altered what a desktop could do. If Daz had unlocked 3DL before 2017 and made that script part of Studio, then the 3DL and Iray dynamic in the store could have been completely changed. I personally believe we would have a lot more support for 3DL in the store had this happened.

3Delight went the cloud rendering route, I've seen some live examples of rendering multi mega scenes in a couple of seconds with full PBR features, very impressive and not very expensive. Sadly, there is no such option for DS 3DL as of yet, only for Maya, Katana and a few others:( So that's something DAZ could look into if they wanted to support 3DL.

Richard Haseltine said:

outrider42 said:
I can understand the sentiment, but only to a degree. Technology is always changing. There are a lot of factors going on. 3DL is purely CPU, and by 2015, the year Daz brought Iray in, desktops were limited to 4 cores. You could not get more than 4 cores without spending massive amounts of money. AMD Ryzen was still 2 years away, and in 2015 no one could have predicted AMD would make the comeback it did with Ryzen.

This lack of innovation in CPU basically handicapped 3DL. GPU render engines were taking off, and they were fast. And 3DL itself fell onto some harder times. You used to be able to find Hollywood movies using 3DL, a testimont to its capability, but today you wont find any movies that use 3DL. Its almost like 3DL fell off a cliff. And their staff acknowledges this. I saw a video where they were discussing some new features, and the presenter openly joked about their situation.

Richard Haseltine said:

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

@L'Adair and @kyoto kid

If DAZ truly supported 3Delight, they would update their 3DL implementation to include a script for end users to access the built in PATHTRACER. Surely they could do it if end users have done it? They could include a PBR shader, just like the DS default shader, to be used with the pathtracer for PBR rendering. This is in my humble opinion the very least they could do IF they supported 3Delight. However, it is my belief that 3DL is still included in DS as long as there are 3Delight only products in their store.

While DS does have the full version of 3DL (yeah I know it's several builds older than the current 3DL), what DAZ doesn't have is a license agreement that allows them to use it all.
It doesn't stop some 3rd party from accessing the full 3DL in DS, but it does hamstring DAZ from doing it.

If the Daz license didn't allow its use it wouldn't be available through script - that doesn't get added by accident.

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

fastbike1 said:

@Barric

Not buying the argument. Legacy stuff from DAZ3D will still work, 3DL is still usable within Studio.

In all fairness, there are pre- IRay products that don't work in the newer DS builds. The AoA lights and effect cameras, to name a few, are partially or completely broken. No way to roll back to an older build if you would like to use them. Waist of money.

In what way aren't they working ?

A couple of year back one of my friends was having issues with the ambient lights, turns out DIM wasn't installing the Definition and Shader files properly. They are meant to go in AppData but DIM can make a right mess of getting in there at times, so a quick manual install later and they were working.

So it might be something like that causing them not to work, or they might need to be recompiled to work with the current DS version of 3DL.

If this is the case, then why didn't Daz do this themselves? Why didn't Daz add a feature to Studio to unlock 3DL for its users? Wouldn't that have been ideal? These features have been there for quite a long time, too.

While 3DL didn't help itself, Daz played its own role in its fall in this store. Passing all accountability to customers and PAs for adopting Iray is simply not right. Daz at any point in time could have updated 3DL and made it more viable...but they chose not to do this. By choosing not to make any changes to 3DL (when all it needed was a script!!), Daz chose to allow Iray to take the lead it did. Daz made its choice.

After all, Ryzen came out in 2017 and radically altered what a desktop could do. If Daz had unlocked 3DL before 2017 and made that script part of Studio, then the 3DL and Iray dynamic in the store could have been completely changed. I personally believe we would have a lot more support for 3DL in the store had this happened.

The features were never locked, once they were in 3delight, as far as I know - but daz has limited resources and apparently writing, or comissioning, an enhnaced shader didn't make the cut for implementation (assuming it was considered).

Yes Richard, you have a point there. There were rumours among 3DL users for several years that wowie and Mustakettu85 are working on something. Now aweSurface has been in the store since last September, the current build is 1.3 and wowie is working hard on the next build, which apparently will be a majore one. He has also released a preview of his aweHair shader for scripted pathtracing that uses the 3DL special hair specular BRDF. I've tested it and just love it;) So hats off to wowie, I can't imagine the amount of work hours he's put into it.

So there's a lot of good things happening after all for 3DL users.

Mistara · November 2019

Richard Haseltine said:

Mystarra said:

if you want to use a newer iray shader on an older v1 or 2 skin, hold the shift key when applying the shader.

you'll get the shader setting but it will retain the texture map.

kewl feature.

i remember when sss was the bee's knees of skin shading.
in the days of fast scatter. or is it knees bees?

Shift uses the rpeferred options, if they've beens et. To set the preferred state, or to make other selections, hold down cmd(Mac)/ctrl(Win) instead.

this good to know, thanks

outrider42 · November 2019

Richard Haseltine said:

outrider42 said:
I can understand the sentiment, but only to a degree. Technology is always changing. There are a lot of factors going on. 3DL is purely CPU, and by 2015, the year Daz brought Iray in, desktops were limited to 4 cores. You could not get more than 4 cores without spending massive amounts of money. AMD Ryzen was still 2 years away, and in 2015 no one could have predicted AMD would make the comeback it did with Ryzen.

This lack of innovation in CPU basically handicapped 3DL. GPU render engines were taking off, and they were fast. And 3DL itself fell onto some harder times. You used to be able to find Hollywood movies using 3DL, a testimont to its capability, but today you wont find any movies that use 3DL. Its almost like 3DL fell off a cliff. And their staff acknowledges this. I saw a video where they were discussing some new features, and the presenter openly joked about their situation.

Richard Haseltine said:

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

@L'Adair and @kyoto kid

If DAZ truly supported 3Delight, they would update their 3DL implementation to include a script for end users to access the built in PATHTRACER. Surely they could do it if end users have done it? They could include a PBR shader, just like the DS default shader, to be used with the pathtracer for PBR rendering. This is in my humble opinion the very least they could do IF they supported 3Delight. However, it is my belief that 3DL is still included in DS as long as there are 3Delight only products in their store.

While DS does have the full version of 3DL (yeah I know it's several builds older than the current 3DL), what DAZ doesn't have is a license agreement that allows them to use it all.
It doesn't stop some 3rd party from accessing the full 3DL in DS, but it does hamstring DAZ from doing it.

If the Daz license didn't allow its use it wouldn't be available through script - that doesn't get added by accident.

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

fastbike1 said:

@Barric

Not buying the argument. Legacy stuff from DAZ3D will still work, 3DL is still usable within Studio.

In all fairness, there are pre- IRay products that don't work in the newer DS builds. The AoA lights and effect cameras, to name a few, are partially or completely broken. No way to roll back to an older build if you would like to use them. Waist of money.

In what way aren't they working ?

A couple of year back one of my friends was having issues with the ambient lights, turns out DIM wasn't installing the Definition and Shader files properly. They are meant to go in AppData but DIM can make a right mess of getting in there at times, so a quick manual install later and they were working.

So it might be something like that causing them not to work, or they might need to be recompiled to work with the current DS version of 3DL.

If this is the case, then why didn't Daz do this themselves? Why didn't Daz add a feature to Studio to unlock 3DL for its users? Wouldn't that have been ideal? These features have been there for quite a long time, too.

While 3DL didn't help itself, Daz played its own role in its fall in this store. Passing all accountability to customers and PAs for adopting Iray is simply not right. Daz at any point in time could have updated 3DL and made it more viable...but they chose not to do this. By choosing not to make any changes to 3DL (when all it needed was a script!!), Daz chose to allow Iray to take the lead it did. Daz made its choice.

After all, Ryzen came out in 2017 and radically altered what a desktop could do. If Daz had unlocked 3DL before 2017 and made that script part of Studio, then the 3DL and Iray dynamic in the store could have been completely changed. I personally believe we would have a lot more support for 3DL in the store had this happened.

The features were never locked, once they were in 3delight, as far as I know - but daz has limited resources and apparently writing, or comissioning, an enhnaced shader didn't make the cut for implementation (assuming it was considered).

It may as well have been locked, because the average customer had no knowledge of how to access 3DL's path tracer. Considering how much business Daz does relates directly to the quality of its rendering engine(s), I think I would have made room in the budget to do that ASAP. Daz seemed to find room in the budget to add an entirely different render engine that had no compatibility with what they had offered previously. But they couldn't write a script to benefit the engine they already had?

Richard Haseltine · November 2019

outrider42 said:

Richard Haseltine said:

outrider42 said:
I can understand the sentiment, but only to a degree. Technology is always changing. There are a lot of factors going on. 3DL is purely CPU, and by 2015, the year Daz brought Iray in, desktops were limited to 4 cores. You could not get more than 4 cores without spending massive amounts of money. AMD Ryzen was still 2 years away, and in 2015 no one could have predicted AMD would make the comeback it did with Ryzen.

This lack of innovation in CPU basically handicapped 3DL. GPU render engines were taking off, and they were fast. And 3DL itself fell onto some harder times. You used to be able to find Hollywood movies using 3DL, a testimont to its capability, but today you wont find any movies that use 3DL. Its almost like 3DL fell off a cliff. And their staff acknowledges this. I saw a video where they were discussing some new features, and the presenter openly joked about their situation.

Richard Haseltine said:

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

@L'Adair and @kyoto kid

If DAZ truly supported 3Delight, they would update their 3DL implementation to include a script for end users to access the built in PATHTRACER. Surely they could do it if end users have done it? They could include a PBR shader, just like the DS default shader, to be used with the pathtracer for PBR rendering. This is in my humble opinion the very least they could do IF they supported 3Delight. However, it is my belief that 3DL is still included in DS as long as there are 3Delight only products in their store.

While DS does have the full version of 3DL (yeah I know it's several builds older than the current 3DL), what DAZ doesn't have is a license agreement that allows them to use it all.
It doesn't stop some 3rd party from accessing the full 3DL in DS, but it does hamstring DAZ from doing it.

If the Daz license didn't allow its use it wouldn't be available through script - that doesn't get added by accident.

Bejaymac said:

Sven Dullah said:

fastbike1 said:

@Barric

Not buying the argument. Legacy stuff from DAZ3D will still work, 3DL is still usable within Studio.

In all fairness, there are pre- IRay products that don't work in the newer DS builds. The AoA lights and effect cameras, to name a few, are partially or completely broken. No way to roll back to an older build if you would like to use them. Waist of money.

In what way aren't they working ?

A couple of year back one of my friends was having issues with the ambient lights, turns out DIM wasn't installing the Definition and Shader files properly. They are meant to go in AppData but DIM can make a right mess of getting in there at times, so a quick manual install later and they were working.

So it might be something like that causing them not to work, or they might need to be recompiled to work with the current DS version of 3DL.

If this is the case, then why didn't Daz do this themselves? Why didn't Daz add a feature to Studio to unlock 3DL for its users? Wouldn't that have been ideal? These features have been there for quite a long time, too.

While 3DL didn't help itself, Daz played its own role in its fall in this store. Passing all accountability to customers and PAs for adopting Iray is simply not right. Daz at any point in time could have updated 3DL and made it more viable...but they chose not to do this. By choosing not to make any changes to 3DL (when all it needed was a script!!), Daz chose to allow Iray to take the lead it did. Daz made its choice.

After all, Ryzen came out in 2017 and radically altered what a desktop could do. If Daz had unlocked 3DL before 2017 and made that script part of Studio, then the 3DL and Iray dynamic in the store could have been completely changed. I personally believe we would have a lot more support for 3DL in the store had this happened.

The features were never locked, once they were in 3delight, as far as I know - but daz has limited resources and apparently writing, or comissioning, an enhnaced shader didn't make the cut for implementation (assuming it was considered).

It may as well have been locked, because the average customer had no knowledge of how to access 3DL's path tracer. Considering how much business Daz does relates directly to the quality of its rendering engine(s), I think I would have made room in the budget to do that ASAP. Daz seemed to find room in the budget to add an entirely different render engine that had no compatibility with what they had offered previously. But they couldn't write a script to benefit the engine they already had?

Since we weren't involved in the decisions there's not really anything we can say with confidence. I woudl point out, though, that Iray was a very popular decision even if it wouldn't have been a priority for you.

Quasar · November 2019

According to the 3Delight web site, 13 is the newest version of the render engine which uses something called NSI. It states that it isn't compatible with version 12. When listing software that uses 3Delight, it shows Daz Studio but says, "It is based on our legacy RenderMan compliant rendering technology." Unless they've stated somewhere that they are going to continue developing version 12, then Studio will either remain on 12 indefinitely or upgrade to 13 and force a bigger change on all the people who prefer 3Delight (I don't imagine Daz would update their entire back catalog of 3Delight content to work with 13.). As long as NVIDIA keeps developing Iray, there would seem to be a longer product lifespan for Iray from this point on. I can see why Daz would focus on Iray now. However, it would be cool if Daz would expose the full power of 3Delight, especially if it isn't going to be updated any longer.

Sven Dullah · November 2019

Quasar said:

According to the 3Delight web site, 13 is the newest version of the render engine which uses something called NSI. It states that it isn't compatible with version 12. When listing software that uses 3Delight, it shows Daz Studio but says, "It is based on our legacy RenderMan compliant rendering technology." Unless they've stated somewhere that they are going to continue developing version 12, then Studio will either remain on 12 indefinitely or upgrade to 13 and force a bigger change on all the people who prefer 3Delight (I don't imagine Daz would update their entire back catalog of 3Delight content to work with 13.). As long as NVIDIA keeps developing Iray, there would seems to be a longer product lifespan for Iray from this point on. I can see why Daz would focus on Iray now. However, it would be cool if Daz would expose the full power of 3Delight, especially if it isn't going to be updated any longer.

Interesting, will have a look, tks!

GafftheHorse · November 2019

JClave said:

GafftheHorse said:

I'm in a sometimes precarious position with Daz Studio and shopping, I run Studio through Wine (sort of an emulator) so many extra factors could break Daz Studio for me and I've all this money invested in the associated products (and Iray has seldom worked with the Nvidia GPU on my setup (which isn't great as a desktop driver either).

If you are on Linux and able to afford a second GPU in your PC, you could try running Windows as Kernel Virtual Machine. This allows you to get native GPU performance and native Windows compatibility. I haven't tried it myself but thought you might be interested.

@JClave

Nice idea - have been considering a second GPU - but AMD 'cause the Nvidia proprietary driver, while ok for fullscreen games, is really rubbish for desktop computing on 'Linux. I'd forgotten how bad, my last Nvidia prior to this, was pre signed firmware and could use the Nouveau drivers.

Despite the odd problems, Wine is a far more usable solution, for the odd Windows program you just can't do without. Unity, Unreal and Blender have 'Linux native versions.

Plus, I'd have to maintain a Windows Licence, Windows updates, etc.

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