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And I said twenty at a time for a project? You seem not to answer that part. Understand it's easy to say I do it for all my projects and only do one or two, it's far different for a batch. And that's on top of spending weeks actually making a product for sale
It would be nice - of course, if would be nice - but mandatory seems extreme; it would be bad enough if you weren't allowed to post in the gallery without detailing everything you used. Generally, such a list is a courtesy, a shout-out to vendors, a guide to anyone who might wonder. Hardly appropriate to make it mandatory to simply show people a picture.
I think it is very kind of vendors who do make an effort to detail some of the more significant things they (or the contributing artist) has used. If they don't, you can always ask in the forums - it is an entertaining pasttime to figure out what products were used. To make it a rule, though... that is the equivalent of saying the product is less important than the commercial for it. Whether it would be an onerous task is irrelevant. Commercials do not detail where they were shot, who the actors were, or even who directed. They sell the product, that is their purpose.
If you look at it as more art than commercial promotion, then you are asking for the equivalent to a recipe for someone else's work, and they should in no way be obliged to provide it.
You're not talking about using custom skins on the product that's being sold, are you?
I want promos that reflect what's in the package, not what it looks like with skins that aren't included.
Adding customized clothing and props is okay, I know I'm not buying them with the product.
And if I understand correctly, Pretty3D eventually decided to market his signature V4 character because she was so popular, even offering versions for newer generations.
As did hamelion at Rendo.
That other-artist effect is real. I've purchased many items I didn't know existed by clicking on the links at the bottom of product pages. I'd think it would work both ways in the long run, i.e. other PAs listing your products would net you additional sales. As a consumer who ultimately is paying the bills, I find it useful, for what that's worth. That said, I have no opinion on it being mandatory.
I think the difference is that the Daz store comprises an ecosystem of sorts where knowing that additional information can be useful to drive additional sales. I don't see a similar effect with food advertising. Again I'm not advocating any new mandates.
Agreed!
As long as what is sold is not the character, why would that be a problem?
I don't get PAs worrying about losing sales because they provided promo credits. It works both ways. There are people visiting your product pages because other PAs listed your stuff on their product pages, too. Protectionism like that only makes the market as a whole smaller, and everyone is worse off in the end.
I try to list everything I use on my gallery pages (except poses which I usually change a lot), because I think the PAs whose stuff I use are amazing. I also use the plugin, to look at things other like-minded people make with the items. I'm surprised that many PAs don't share that sentiment or respect their fellow PAs in that way.
Who said anything about losing sales because of promo credits? What they’re losing is time, spent advertising products from other vendors rather than working on their own products and earning money.
That has nothing to do with protectionism or “not respecting other PAs”...
The fact is that PAs are benefitting from the creativity of others when they use their items to build their promos, just like we mere customers and they benefit from their status as PAs in obtaining those items.
And once that list gets long enough (I think the one in your image is already reaching that tresshold), people will post a new thread asking what hair is used in the promo anyway, because they can't be bothered searching through the wall of links.
But, stay here at DAZ for long enough, and you'll start to get good at guessing which artists make what styles of hair, or whether some asset might be made by the creator of the product the promo is for.
Looking through the products of other PAs the creator has cooperated with in the past has also helped me find some assets.
And sometimes, it's just a good way to pass time, to scroll through a few hundred products to find the used asset. Won't work for every product, I mean, it can be near impossible to figure out that the corset used in a promo for a G8 female originates from the upper part of a dress for V4 figures. But, usually assets used are from the same generation, or at worst, the generation right before.
Some PA's feel that way, others don't. It just depends on the person. But you have to see it from their POV. Does Nike give throwbacks to skechers? When Calvin Klein has an ad, does it have a you might like section that shows Givenchy? (wow Im just pulling these out of my bum lol)
The answer is a resounding... no. Its competition. In fact, you may even witness some bitter competition and slights on behalf of bigger companies. And while it doesn't mean they hate their fellow PAs, nor do they generally throw shade.... at the same point, their responsibility is to sell their own item.... not sell everyone elses.
I mean, I totally get it, and understand their POV there. It would be a bit annoying, I spose, if everyone was buying this other thing and not your thing (fortunately, thats not really how it works... at least I dont think)
Me on the other hand... my feeling is, if a person really wants my thing, theyre gonna buy it. If they don't, they'll find something else whether its on my page or they find it via browsing (you can lead a camel to the water but you cant make it... uhhh.. I think I said that earlier lol)
Which way it goes... is anyone's guess. I dont really think it hurts, but then again, who knows... maybe it can. Its that blind spot that some ppl fear.
Katherine, I noticed you changed the thread titile and want to thank you. Hopefully it means you have a better sense of the task being asked. I think you'll find that many PAs are trying to list what they've used and share their knowledge. I'm happy to help where I can. I wouldn't be a moderator in addition to being a PA otherwise.
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"I want promos that reflect what's in the package, not what it looks like with skins that aren't included."
Unless they’re selling a character (in which case of course they should use the character’s skin) they will always use “skins that aren’t included” if a human figure is in the promo pics.
Well, since you're leveling a personal accusation, I'll have to respond, don't I. I'm not sure how much more context I was supposed to provide. I quoted your entire post, and the post you responded to is a link-click away. Is there something more I could have done? Like list all the promo credits you provided with your latest offering? Oh wait...
I never suggested that PAs get stuff for free, although it's been known to happen, but was referring to the discount they get without having to pay for a membership like we unwashed rabble do. As for the rest, that's just the cost of doing business and the life PAs have chosen. We all have our challenges, including coming up with the money to shop at the Daz store. Some PAs go to extreme lengths to provide information to customers while creating wonderful assets, and that doesn't go unappreciated, but rather breeds loyalty.
That could become a particular problem if a PA wants to do previews that aren't just "model shots" but represent more finished scenes.
Discounting Measure Metrics from that list (as it's not really something that falls into the category of "I like it, but can't work out what it is" in the same way as a character skin or dress does) and noting that there are some Rendo items in those images that are therefore unlisted, that's 16 items listed across 20-something promos.
As I try to list everything practical with the images I upload to the gallery* (although I usually have to leave out poses, as it's usually very hard to ID which ones I've used when I finally settle on an image composition, and I've usually mixed or edited them enough that I'm not sure they're then hugely representative of the product anyway), I'm often aware of just how long such a list can get.
This piece of mine, which was specifically done to experiment with RawArt's (then) new Medusa Maker to see how it worked on other G8F figures (so it wouldn't be completely ludicrous as an idea for a promo image), hits 30 links in one image, despite coincidences like the smartphone prop being part of a hair product I was already using in the scene. And that's a scene that's very light on props, just characters and clothing. Had I really had the VRAM on my middling card to have included a drinks table or something at the back of the dance hall, that could easily have added a few more products to that list.
(And, at the same time, it's also a case of "things I could actually list". To actually have the female centaur look like that, I had to create a counter morph in Blender to nullify the head portion of the full body morph and thus allow the use of Olympia's head).
At a certain point, common sense does have to come into it, or you will get ridiculous lists.
* Which does sometimes appear to be a rarity. There are a few products on the store where the Daz Deals add-on shows that only I've linked them.
I don't understand your point.. That's exactly what I was talking about!
A promo image for anything should only use the skins or textures that come with the purchased product, wether it be a character, a clothing item, or a prop.
A promo image for clothes or hair will usually include a human figure wearing those, and that character won't be included with the product. That's the case where the PA will use sometimes use custom characters or skins, not when they're selling the character.
Like I said, Daz may have chosen not to add all the links I provided, but I DID provide them. And in that case it's out of my control. Example for L.I.E. FACE BRUISES links I provided of things used in my promo art. And as you can see in the link, NONE of them were added. Heck, even in the "other products you might be interested in" 1/3 products were linked.
The screenshot shows how that product was submitted in PASS, with all those products added.
Well FenixPhoenix, that's certainly DAZ dropping the ball then for promoting their own sales
Yeah, I'm unsure why they decided not to include them. Which sucks because I even took the extra time to check as many of the prominent items I've used to add them there. Yet none of them made it into the final store page. At first I figured it was something with looking at it through my cellphone, but even when I checked it in a computer, none of them were added/displayed.
Taking what you've said literally, you're ruling out pretty much every promo on the store, as they will use other products as part of the image, and thus necessarily have to use skins and textures that are not part of the product.
I think that what you mean is "Do not use other textures on the product you're actually selling", which is potentially confusing on the basis that many people will interpret it as something that should go without saying; the fact you've brought it up implies that it's something less obvious than that.
In any case, about the only time I can think that I've seen promos do something close to that is character shaping presets, which do (at least for all of the ones I can recall buying) list the skins used, as well as specifically mentioning that the textures are not included. While I will concede that some such promos omit clay renders of the morphs (and don't thus give much idea of what they look like without the skins), the promos still can't exactly be accused of misrepresenting what is actually included; if anything, a lack of clay renders is more likely to cost the artist a sale than it is to lead a customer to inadvertently purchase.
(And I certainly know that having seen the morphs with skins has on occasions actually encouraged me to purchase both the morphs and some of the skins, so not exactly an uncanny tactic).
For me if I don't know about a product in an pomo I ask someone here. In most cases there are many on der forums that has the items you are asking about. For me I do not chase after items in promos if it is something I really like and want to know I've asked here in forums and there is always someone who would be happy to help.
For me, it's nice to have the supporting products listed. But we have such a great community here who are usually happy to respond to a "What product is this?" thread that I'm okay with not having it.
I know that for my Gallery posts I try to list the major products I've used. But, first I may not remember all of them, and second sometimes I may have only used one minor piece out of a whole product (for example a stump that comes with a whole environment that I didn't use, but I like the stump for the image). Since I will often pull things from all over to achieve the look I want, does it really make sense to list Stonemason's The Private Garden if all I used was the lemon tree inserted in an entirely different environment set?
FYI: I do this ALL THE TIME! It is how I have been learning 3D. First, if a promo is good enough to catch my eye, and second, great enough to make me want to purchase it, I will assuredly try to recreate that promo image that made me pull the trigger on the shopping cart. Sometimes I am successful, sometimes I come up with something completely different, but I always, ALWAYS I learn something!
The AntFarm often uses a post production filter that I know, and use often myself, but when I see it in their promo I always smile and nod knowingly, like we share some secret insider knowledge. HA HA!!
Rawart, promo images matter, possibly more than you think!!!! I've seen forum threads where people admit to 'harvesting' promo images and keeping them for reference. I even know a guy <both thumbs pointing at myself> that does this religiously! (For what it is worth, you're promo images are always top-notch!)
I personally have never tried to recreate a promo image, I have however gotten inspiriation from it and tried to do something similar, but still not an exact copy of it, if that made sense?
Makes sense. To be clear, I do it as an EXERCISE and to force me to try to create something different than I would on my own. This widens my repertoire of skills and it can be more challenging than you might think! All creative exercise is good mental exercise. :)
"I want promos that reflect what's in the package, not what it looks like with skins that aren't included."
I was talking about the product being sold, and specifically said skins. Never mentioned anything else. Skins. Never mind, you want to deliberately mis-state what I actually said, so...
I give up. Collect whatever points that gets you and be happy.