How much would you pay for a DAZ Studio Render?
amyw12
Posts: 63
Sometimes I take commissions and I just got a request from someone who wants some images. They have a model they'd like me to use (so a figure is already made) and some general references they'd like me to follow. So basically I'd be helping set up the scene/lighting and posing with model, then producing rendered images for the person.
I'm new to such things and don't know what exactly would be considered a fair price to be paid for something like this, where you are not doing character design and are just doing the scene setup, posing, and rendering instead. There's not a deadline so time isn't a factor in the price, but I still have to fiddle around with lighting and posing so it does cost me some time.
EDIT: I need to add that they will probably be using the images for commercial purposes and also might need some outfit changes (not an issue to me though since I own so many DAZ clothes)
Thoughts? I don’t do this for a living and I’m no pro so I don’t need to charge a pro’s level of pay but I’m still spending time so I don’t want to undersell myself
Thanks
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Comments
Assuming that the person asked for help because you are capable, you should charge based on your time. Time's always a factor, because you can't get it back.
There are only two considerations: how much time will this take, and how much is your time worth?
Actually, you could argue, there is only one consideration, which is how much do you think the client is willing to pay?
Good points guys. Well I offered 50 dollars an image and altogether they asked if 30 was ok which I don’t know if that’s a fair price esp for an image that would be used commercially... but on the other hand I’m not designing anything and the model is premade, so I’m posing and setting up scene and lighting then rendering... as you can tell I’m bad at this
In my experience, a lot of people have a hard time valuing artists hard work. Especially if they don't see you as a "professional". It's one of the main reasons why I stopped doing art as a side gig for money. People want me to do [stuff] for them that is going to take hours or days to finish for ten bucks. Get the hell outta here with that lol.
One thing to also consider. You say they have a model, is it a DAZ model? if so, they cannot share the actual model with you or anyone else, only a preset that will load the morphs into the figure you have purchased (assuming you have the same morph packages installed)
if they are using the renders as a commercial project, I would charge more than if it was say fan art since they plan on making money off ot it and you are doing most of the work.
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$50 is more than fair for a piece of commercial art, even if they're providing the model. Even if they had created the entire scene themselves and just needed hardware to render it on, they'd probably end up spending at least as much to rent equipment. If $50 is what you feel comfortable with, I'd say stick to your initial quote.
It's worth keeping in mind that if they're having you do outfit changes and stuff out of your own library, they're also saving the money they'd need to invest in buying those things themselves. When I was taking commissions I'd almost always technically undercharge on the fee because I found a lot of people wanted me to buy new items to incorporate, and while I might not have gone out of my way to purchase those assets myself I still felt like getting to keep them was decent compensation. On the flip side, anyone hiring a render artist who uses Daz is getting not only their expertise, but the benefits of their hardware and any assets and tools they have.
I do think it depends on where you're getting work from, though. $50 is considered a middling-to-high price in fandom circles, where people don't have a lot of disposable income and artists often undercharge by professional standards because otherwise they won't be able to sell to the community they want to provide services to. For a commercial project that's peanuts in my experience; the last time we needed to hire digital artists for a marketing project we paid them around $1.5k each for one illustration apiece.
Also as a side note, consider whether you're handing over copyright (so they can do whatever they want with the final image) or just giving them a copy of the image (for personal use or whatever you agree on).
Was just going to say that. If they want you to set up an image and then sell copies of it then you need to charge them a fair amount for the change over of copyright owner. Best weeks work I ever did I agreed to sell copyright on a series of images and it was €350 an image I charged, and that was a few years ago, back at the beginning of the century.
And don't forget that you need to have a copy of the model/character/morphs of the figure they are using They can't just send you a model, unless they own the copyright to it. If it is a model they have built from scratch then Daz clothing would not fit it, so I assume they are working from a Daz figure, which cannot be redistributed. So whatever they have used you need to already have a copy of it yourself.
I agree how much is your time worth? Don't tell client that it is too low tell them your time is worth more and itemize everything. $30 for a print or for non commerial use is fine but if they are going to use your images to promote their products plus want the copyright, then it should be more. Ask them to contact an art design firm about prices and they will balk because they have probabally already done this. Conseqently, they have already looked at your portfolio and think you will be cheaper since you aren't a commercial artist. You should explain to your client that your computer has a mean time before failure, due to the stress renders put on computer components. Iray renders should cost more because it causes heat degradation to your video card(which is also more expensive if you have a higher end nvidia card) the longer you use it. Explain and itemize everything to your client and be fair you will get more work that way. Good luck
My commissions are mostly for friends or friends of friends that I play MMOs with, not commercial clients; so take this FWIW.
I have a tiered cost based on what I'm doing.
I start with a "figure setup" where I work with them on the face, body, hair, etc. I have a flat one-time fee of $15 for that which will include a high quality "headshot" they could use as an avatar on Discord, forums, etc. I found that for some people I can spend a LOT of time just getting the character setup done and people didn't appreciate the time it was taking. Subsequent renders with that same character won't incur that fee. For new people who I don't know well, I may require that be paid in advance (via Paypal so they have protection for the purchase on their side as well).
Then it's a matter of what they're looking for in the image. A simple setup of the character dressed and in a basic scene like a living room, park, etc. I would charge $30 for. If they have a very specific request like a specific location or a photo that it MUST match, I'd jump that up to $45. This is based off the time it may take me to work out all those details to their liking.
When they want something like a fighting scene with multiple other characters involved, it can go even higher.
I've gotten very effiicent lately in doing these sorts of renders; so it's unusual for it to take me longer than 1 or 2 evenings (maybe a total of 6 hours max) to get a finished product. For my purposes, $30-45 is acceptable for that. But I'm just doing it to pay for my dazaholic habits.
I totally understand what other people are saying about how the image is going to be used changes it's value. And if I were in this for a business, I would definitely have some sort of commercial rates, but I would also expect myself to stick tighter to timelines and quality standards than just doing a casual render for someone who wants to see their Elf Ranger outside of the game they're playing.
But, tbh, if I were in your situation, it probably would have gone down the same way. I would have started at $50 and if they countered with $30, I would have accepted it.
Not really.
You may decide to reduce the cost, but willing to pay shouldn't influence determining what you feel your time is worth. That way you can then bring other factors into play, including what folks will pay.
That argument is only used for determing whether or not you will want to go ahead, but does not determine the final price. In a captalist system, market forces is the only price determiner. Having determined the max a client will pay, it is then a matter of deciding to accept, or not.
$41.99 (Let them feel good for getting a lower price.)
Seriously though, if you offered $50 and they countered with $30, that's almost half of what you asked for. Looks like they're just haggling. Aside from what had already been said about this being a commercial job and the issue of copyright ownership, if you want $50, counter their offer of $30 by telling them the $50 was a limited time special, and prices will be going up soon.
Work is work, time always costs money. So bill by the hour. If they want it cheaper, split the bill among more interested people for the same piece.
Art is work.
i wouuldnt care what it was rendered in if it fitted my needs
i've seen the stock photos my day job buys for their branding
is called high impact photos
Somewhat related. There have been a bunch of videos on Youtube this year about various tubers' experiences hiring people on Fiverr to do artwork, play music parts, etc. Anyway, you might want to check what various people charge there.
I found this one showed that sometimes you get a lot for what you pay, and sometimes not so much. If you search on YT, there are a bunch of videos along the same vein for different disciplines.
I Paid Artists on FIVERR To Finish My Drawing...
Your inital fee of $50 is reasonable. A couple hours of work atleast. Hold firm.
Your time is worth what your customer/employer thinks it's worth.
They will probably offer less, but they won't pay more.
Let me give you examples from my own life:
If I'm wearing my artist's hat, my time is worth little, because there are people who can do it as well or better than I, for free.
When I was wearing my truck driver's hat, my time was worth $20.00/hour, because that's what my customers were willing to pay me. If I'd demanded more, they'd hire someone else.
As a custom gunsmith, my time is worth $75.00/hour, because that's what my customers are willing to pay for my custom, to-order work for them.
If, as a gunsmith, I insisted that my time was worth $100.00/hour, I wouldn't get it.
If, as a driver, I insisted that my time was worth $75.00/hour, even though it is as a gunsmith, I wouldn't be driving, because my customers wouldn't agree.
Which is one reason why a mandated minimum wage is ridiculous. Customers and employers are only willing to pay what their employees are worth to them.
Some people build in room for compromise. Keep it reasonable, but something that can leave room for negotiation. The other thing is if a customer wants to pay less, tell them that the price is firm for a one-off, but if they bring you more work or contract for more than one in the job, then the price is negotiable.
This is very important, I think. For a while I was getting calls from various people who paid me to build websites for them. The pay was fairly good for a teenager, I think. But they would always tell me what they wanted and then ask how long it would take to be done. Suppose I told them three months. Almost every single time, about two and a half months into the project, I would have produced something that is exactly what they said they wanted. But it turns out they want something different. And they don't think you did anything. They are completely oblivious to server or client side scripting, search engine optimiztion, Photoshop, making things work with every web browser, and everything else. They think you typed this entire website in Microsoft Word with clip art and with a few mouse clicks, you can redo the whole thing. So they want to to do the whole thing over but somehow expect you to meet the original deadline. Or if you get this explained to them and set a new deadline, they want to pay you the original price, as if you haven't done two projects for them at this point. I could see the same thing happening with a DAZ Studio render. They're going to give you some model like Victoria 1 to use and when you're done, they're going to say the model is ugly and they were expecting it to look like Aiko 8. Or vice versa. Definitely discuss having to rework things if what they said they want is not what they actually want.
Also, as another person mentioned, it looks like they're "haggling". I've seen this many times on Wheeler Dealers before I stopped watching because they don't have Edd China. If you say 50 and they say 30 then you probably should agree on 40 or walk away. Especially if you don't need this gig.
You are exactly right. It is best to have everything possible in writing, an actual pencil sketch on paper in addition would be nice. My web designer sent me a color mockup of what he thought I wanted, along with a list of features. I made a couple of edits, sent them back, we negotiated a price, and I got a result that I was happy with. The more specific your proposal, the better for all.
My designer hated customers who used vague buzz words like "Make it snap!", by the way. Lots of web design forums out there discussing customers from hell.
I agree with this. Pay yourself a fair hourly rate given your skill level, assets, and available tools. And make it very expensive for the buyer to purchase your rights. I'm talking new car payoff expensive.
If they agree, you need to have an agreement for rework and for add-ons purchases.
Quantity or promotional discounts are okay, this is kind of what DAZ does with the store and all these sales. Just beware that you could be unintentionally encouraging your customers to assume that you'll always have discounts.
I used to do commissions and I highly recommend setting up a price list after deciding how you want to price the images. Usually, it's something like:
X amount per character,
+X amount if they want a complex background/environment,
+X amount if the image is going to be used commercially,
+X amount if the image is a rush job,
Etc
That way you get compensated properly for your time and skill. Setting up a scene with a single character with a plain background is going to be a lot less work and a lot less time consuming than setting up a complex scene with multiple characters and a busy background/environment.
Also, be sure to set up rules (that way you don't get driven mad). Some clients are going to be super picky and will want you to make change, after change, after change to the image and have you working WAY more than you priced for. So I recommend setting up some base guidelines like "Up to 3 change requests can be made to the image, after that it's X amount per change request". Another guideline that I highly recommend, if you start to take on more commissions and clients, is to set a rule that at least half payment upfront needs to be made, the other half when the image is completed. I would give the client the option to make full payment upfront or half payment upfront and the other half after image completion and delivery. Most clients are fine with that and it lets them know you're serious and not a pushover. There were a few times when I first started out doing commissions that I would do an image for a client and send it to them then get burned by them not paying and them basically just up and disappear. There are a lot of people who will take advantage of others if they can, getting half payment upfront makes it much easier to weed out people who are just trying to get free art.
Setting up a price list and a short rules list on a page or graphic to show people when they inquire about commissions will also discourage people from trying to "negotiate" with you to get a lower price. Seeing a price list makes it a bit more firm and has a more professional feel which tells the client two things - 1) you do this enough to have a set of established prices and rules (that will often make the client feel more at ease about hiring you), 2) you do this enough that you know what your time and skills are worth, so they are less likely to try and low-ball you.
Commissions can be a lot of fun, as well as challenging - and can help you grow as an artist. Having some ground rules and an established price list can make things much easier on both you and your clients.
I honestly would not pay anything for a daz studio render. However if I were going to charge, I’d look at the pricing artists are asking for 3D bookcovers and go with that as a guide. I also would take a hard look at my own skill level... if i wasn’t pro quality I’d charge a reduced price.
Piecework (charging by the piece, as opposed to an hourly rate) only makes sense if you have a VERY good handle on how long it will take to deliver the finished product, including any and all edits/revisions the client may request/require. (There's a very good reason that creative professionals, from graphic artists to architects and engineers to composers, songwriters, and arrangers charge a retainer PLUS an hourly rate.)
Another thing to consider: even if you're not currently doing it for a living, you need to have an idea of how much you would charge if you were doing it for a living because the price you end up charging for this commission establishes the client's expectation of the cost of future commissions they might want you to do for them (and any of their clients they may refer to you.)
Regardless of how much you decide to charge, at the very least, you need to have a clear written contract defining the scope of the project: something along the lines of, "Graphic artist will produce (#) of rendered images, consisting of a preliminary render plus (#) of revisions of each, for a fee of ($$$ per image). Additional edits/revisions will be billed at a rate of ($$$/hour)." The contract should stipulate a downpayment (at least 25%, but 50% if you can get it) for each image, a schedule of additional payments for work completed, and a final payment, for example, if the contract calls for a preliminary render, two revisions, and a final render, the payment schedule could be 50% down, 10% when the preliminary render of an image is submitted, 10% when the first revision of the image is submitted, 10% when the second revision is submitted, and the balance (20% in this case) when the final render is submitted. Additional edits/revisions to be billed at an hourly rate of ($$$). That ensures you receive at least partial compensation for your work if the client backs out (of course, the contract should also stipulate that payment is due in full if the client cancels the project before completion, but it may not be worth your time or the effort to collect if the outstanding balance is small).
Above all else, DO NOT GIVE AWAY OR SIGN OVER THE COPYRIGHTS, unless they're willing to pay through the nose. If you give or sign the copyrights over to the client and they start selling teeshirts with the images and they go viral, they don't owe you jack squat. If YOU retain the copyright, they have to come back and PAY you a merchandising fee (hold out for a flat fee plus a percentage of sales) before they can sell the teeshirts.
I never said it was; it is important to determine what ones time is worth.
If you read all of my statement, you'll see that I said other factors can be considered.
... After all that, one may not do the 'job/task' as the pay wont be enough.