HDRI Questions
Fae3D
Posts: 2,847
I can't do big scenes in Iray, but I've found my computer can handle small scenes and close ups. So I'm trying to learn how to use HDRIs. I've gone to HDRI Haven, and I've downloaded a couple.
Two questions.
1 - How do I figure out which way the picture is turned? In my viewport, it just shows a white background, nothing shows until I render. It takes forever to just keep adjusting the rotation and rendering to see if it's anywhere near where I want it. Is there some better way I don't know about?
2 - Is it possible to resize the picture? The one I'm using is too big for my characters.
Thanks in advance!
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Comments
Let's start with the free options:
The prefered method is to use the Iray preview mode but you will have to test to see if your computer can do it. It is the last of the choices in the tool next to the onscreen box that selects the camera. You computer basically renders a low resolution IRAY scene.
Next is to do a quick spot render to orient yourself. Yech!
Next, is this tool: https://www.daz3d.com/light-probe-tool/ which is servicable but not great.
Now for a paid option that should alter your life:
This tool will help you visualize and provides great lights too: https://www.daz3d.com/ibl-master-for-daz-studio/. This is probably the best solution short of the IRAY preview... Race and buy this now.
Unfortunately to see the image you will need to view it I Iray. Use the Aux Viewport set for Iray and switch between that and the viewport. Zoom the camera to 'move' the figure in the scene.
Ok, I seem to be able to use Iray preview mode. So that solves problem 1, thank you nemesis10 and Fishtales!
Now, does anyone know how to shrink the enviroment so that it isn't so big?
You can't shrink the environment using a HDRI that is why you use the focal length and zoom on the camera. Changing the radius of the dome doesn't shrink the image as such just how much of the scene the dome covers. It is in metres so setting it at 400 means the dome is that wide but the HDRI still looks the same.
IBL Master is brilliant. I use it for both Iray and 3DL renders. I have a Mac and would really struggle to set up scenes without it.
I just tested out the free light probe tool and it does work really well; you just map the hdri texture to a specifi sphere and it perfectly matches the scene..
Now I have to be the "well, actually guy" and add something to Fishtale's remark:
from http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/render_settings/engine/nvidia_iray/environment/start/
Dome
Dome Mode - Provides options for choosing between a conventional infinite spherical environment and more flexible finite environments, where camera movements inside the dome provide a different environment look-up.
Infinite Sphere - A conventional infinite spherical environment.
Infinite Sphere w/ Ground - A conventional infinite spherical environment, with an implicit ground plane that can act as a shadow catcher.
Finite Sphere - A sphere-shaped dome that can be explicitly sized and positioned.
Finite Sphere w/ Ground - A sphere-shaped dome that can be explicitly sized and positioned; where the lower part of the environment is projected onto an implicit ground plane that divides the upper and lower parts of the sphere.
Finite Box - A box-shaped dome that can be explicitly sized and positioned.
Finite Box w/ Ground - A box-shaped dome that can be explicitly sized and positioned; where the lower part of the environment is projected onto an implicit ground plane that divides the upper and lower parts of the box.
Now, this doesn't mean you can place an HDRI in a room, for example, but you can bring the horizon closer...
The problem with a lot of HDRI is that in most the camera is in the middle with a far off horizon and those with near horizons seem to sit in the shadow, there are some that don't but not that many that I use anyway. I usually load the camera at default and then lock the y at 1.72 (metres) which is about the height I would set the camera at to take the HDRI. To then set the camera I usually only use focal length, zoom, left pan or right pan and swivel it up or down. It takes more effort to set up the scene if you start moving the camera but I do that sometimes too. As HDRI are usually only used as backgrounds I will put geometry in the scene for anything added to interact with such as rocks, walls or vegetation etc.
I have a few images on my Art Forum render thread which use HDRI, too many to list here though
I also have a problem with HDRIs created in different programs, for example Unity.
There are options there to save as EXR or PNG format, but even when I use such EXRs in Daz Studio,
they are not look that great.
Remember that some of the free HDRIs you can get on the internet uses a gamma of 1. By default, DAZ uses 2.2 gamma.
HDRI don't have a gamma set, the 1 setting is being added by Studio but shouldn't make a difference to the HDRI, but will do if it isn't a true HDRI but one that has been saved as a .jpg or .png or has a HDR/EXR extension when it isn't a true HDRI.
something that might help is to render your background scene first , apply it to a bill board and then add your character to the scene thats usually helps speed up iray render times. bill board back grounds render much faster than HDRi specially if you using high resolution 4k-8k hdri then your no father ahead rendering using hdri. you can try my free bill board prop to see it it helps you any
http://www.sharecg.com/v/92902/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/Ivys-Magic-Pane-prop#
I have Gianni 6 on Mec4D HDRI. I turned the HDRI via dome rotation. Gianni stays where he is. I resized the picture by adjusting my render settings under general (pixel size and aspect ratio). I am not sure if it's goning to work the same with free HDRIs over the internet cause I have not tried any. They also may have copyright issues even if it was stated free (unless of course in public domain).
Thanks for all the information, everyone. I'll keep playing with it, and see what I can do. I can't afford to buy anything right now, but I've definately got IBL Master wishlisted for when I can.
That is interesting. I didn't know about that.
It ws the best way for me to save GPU/CPU resources I discovered this trick looking for better ways to render iray animation. Bill boards use much less resouces than fully load scenes with props or 4k HDRi and you can just use the daz native light to fill your scenes . Quick , easy, and great results :)
Ivy, please excuse my ignorance as I am sure I should know this but what is the DAZ native light? The camera headlight? Or the default HDRI?
By the way, very good of you to offer those billboard backgrounds as freebies. I've never used a billboard but I have used planes with an image applied so I'm guessing that the principle is similar?
@Faeofthe3rdDimension,
@Ivy's recommendation for using a billboard with your background is, I think, your best option. A billboard is really just a plane, so you can make those within Daz and apply any image you want in the Base Color parameter of the Default material zone.
Using the Create New Primitive dialog, choose Plane, World Center and Z-Positive. (with Z-Postive, the plane is upright, and the image is correctly oriented to the front of the scene.) The plane will be square, but you can change the dimensions to match your image by changing the X and Y scale. Then use the overall scale to make the background larger of smaller.
Use the HDRI for lighting with Draw Dome set to Off. Any HDRI will do, if you're not using it for a background. The default HDRI is a very small image and really does give nice lighting. But you have five HDRIs in your Product Library, Daz gave them to us with Daz Studio: DAZ Studio Iray HDR Outdoor Environments. The default HDRI is actually a very low resolution, blurred version of the Ruins HDRI in this product.
If you have a photo/image editing program, (Gimp is open source and free,) you can also render your scene without a background and add one in your editor. You'll need Draw Dome off, and if you want the shadows, you'll need Draw Ground on. Then save the image as either a PNG, which I recommend as the file will be smaller, or a TIF—this keeps the background transparent. Layer your render over the background image in your editor.
To see how your lighting is affecting the image, use the Aux Viewport in Nvidia Iray draw mode. Create a new camera and name it something like Lighting tests, and use that camera in the Aux viewport. You can then zoom in close to the main subject, a figure's face for example, and see how the lighting affects it. I find the Dome Rotation Range of 80-110 is a good starting point with the default HDRI for faces.
Another tip is to keep your subject in world center, (where it loads by default.) The lighting seems to be the best here with Iray. Move the props and sets to the figure, if necessary.
@L'Adair thank you for the explanations - I think you answered my questions too.
To avoid all the work creating the plane and trying to match the dimensions to avoid image distortions, I would recommend rendering the background at the same size of your final image and use the rendered background image as an Environment Backdrop. See screen capture attached.
In addition to a rendered background, you can also load a photo as your Environment Backdrop if the photo aspect ratio is similar to the aspect ratio of your final render In case you decide to use a photo, you should rotate the Iray environment to match the light coming from the HDRI to the light source in the photo.
I'd say it all depends on personal preference.
I've used both methods and I prefer the plane most of the time. I can adjust the position and size of the plane, and have control over the material settings if I need to make the image brighter or darker. And I don't have to render the background again, if I decide to use a different dimension for the image.
I don't find sizing the plane to match the image dimensions difficult. If I've rendered the image myself, the Render Settings show what the ratio is. Anything HD, for example, will always be 16:9, so I set X to 160% and Y to 90% and then lock both parameters. If I'm using stock imagery, I can set the X and Y based on the width and height of the image in pixels. For a 4096 x 3122 image, I'd set the X scale to 40.96% and the Y scale to 31.22%. Other than deciding where to put the decimal point, there's not much math involved.
@marble, I thought that explanation might answer your question, too. I'm glad you found it helpful.
Agree with you 100%
The problem I've had with planes with an image applied and used as a backdrop has been with shadows and reflections. It is a surface and shadows of the objects in the scene will be cast upon it and it will also reflect any light in front of it. There are steps that can be taken to reduce the surface reflectiveness but the problem will remain to some degree. So I use planes much less now with IRay than I did in the past with 3Delight which, I seem to remember, has options to turn off shadows, etc.
I guess another option is to use canvasses but I've never tried because it looks like the extra effort involved in compositing will cancel out any time gained in the render process.
what i mean by native Iray light is under the render settings when you click draw dome and have the scene set to dome & scene remove the default hdrI and then you can set the time of month and day of the sun posistion see screen shot
that would be lighting your scene with built in daz native lighting , thats what i mean anyway