Anybody having problems with Jezebeth )or other HD characters)
petefaure
Posts: 50
Well, I got a few of the 'demonic' models (Annika, Jezebeth, Jangshi, Tara HD) for some fantasy images I'd like to create....
However, rendering anything with two or more of those characters in the scene is turning into a bit of a nightmare. I only tried to have Jangshi and Jezebeth in the same image and I succeeded a couple of times (but it took hours in 3Delight and a few times I thought the computer might just permanently freeze or explode....got a dark screen, temporary freezing etc). Many other times, Daz studio crashed (got some shader incompatibility message once). Also tried them naked (I thought maybe the issue was with some shaders for the costumes. It goes without saying but yes, I also made sure I only used 3Delight shaders (I know some Iray shaders jsut go nuts if you try to render in 3Delight)
Worth noting that that happened even in scenes in which I had nothing except the two models (normally renders without any environments or special lights really don't even take long in 3Delight, which I use because I'd like to make a comic book in the future and Iray is just too time consuming).
Tara HD also gave me fits..... jsut her with almost nothing else took hours in 3Delight or just crashed as well....
So, what's the deal? Are HD charactersextremely demanding on computers? Is there some compatibility issues between those characters?
By the way, my computer is as follows:
Core i5 i5-8400 - 12 GB RAM - 1 TB HDD - Windows 10 Home 64-bit - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 2 GB -
Yeah, ok, I know it's not the very best computer on the market, but it's not bad either and it has an NVIDIA card that works great with very demanding games like Starcraft 2...if it just struggled with Iray I'd say, ok, maybe I just need a better one, but it shouldn't be this bad with 3Delight.
It's also way better than a computer I used a few years ago and that was fine with the Genesis 2 generation...... Are Genesis3 models a lot more demanding, memory-wise, than Genesis 2 models?
Any thoughts? I really like those characters but at the moment I really can't use them. If it's an issue with HD, fine, I'll avoid HD stuff in the future, but it all seems a bit weird. 3Delight is supposed to be fairly computer-friendly.
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Comments
I render with 3DL, but I don't have those models so can't test. But I use HD morphs on my characters and they slow down the renders a bit, but I've not had any problems as you describe them. Check what SubD level they use by default. Thing is 3DL only supports SubD level 1, everything above that will only show in your viewport but won't give you any more detail when rendered, so to save resources set SubDlevel to 1. However that doesn't explain the problems with rendering, so not sure what's going on with those characters.
Complex hair converted to SubD could cause very long rendertimes also, did you have hair fitted to those characters when experiencing the problems?
There's usually a pause in rendering the first time 3delight meets an HD item with SSS shading properties (for each SSS Group ID in the scene) as it has to calculate all the light bounces in a complex shape. It';s possible, if yiou have limited RAM, thats toring the working results of those calculations is overloading the system (I assume they are cached). 12GB isn't bad (it's as much as I have) but it might be an issue.
IN one scene they both had Reyna hair (but no crown of thorns, just the hair). That could be part of it, but it still seems a bit odd.
Also, how can I set SubDLevel to 1? (assuming it might make it easier to render the scenes)
the video card has only 2GB, should I maybe try to add more RAM to the video card (if it's possible)?
Select the character, go to parameters pane/general/meshresolution and you'll find the SubDivision slider.
3DL is only using CPU for rendering.
Ok, so I figured out how to set a figure to SubD1 but it didn't seem to help much....
a simple render of Janshi naked but with Reyna hair (clothes also seemed to greatly affect rendering times with HD characters) took a while and I briefly got the black screen just before the eyes of the figure were rendered (just green eyes). It looks like my computer is really struggling with anything remotely HD, but it's not supposed to be this bad in 3DL......
I attached a couple of files in which I did succeed.....but both renders took ages (especially the one with both characters). I could post other renders I made, with the figures not HD, that took infinitely less and didnt involve partial freezing or black screens. Most other attempts I made to have both figures in the frame (even with no backgrond or lights and less clothing) failed.....
I guess we can't really turn off HD right?
Ok, did a couple more experiments.....
These renders of Jangshi were not too bad (set SudD1. Not that fast but at least no freezing and dark screen (and took less than five minutes, although arguably a little slow for usch a simple scene.
I tried changing the eyes and adding/removing hair, but none of them seemed to be a factor.
As soon as I added Jezebeth, however, the computer went nuts and after a few minutes of black screens and such I got the "dazstudio encountered a fatal error and must close)
I guess I forgot to set Jezebeth to SubD1 as well.... will give that another try in a moment
Alright, one last comment
tried again to add Jezebeth to the scene, changed both models to SubD1, almost no clothing (same bodysuit as in the picture), 3Dl shaders only on both models....
black screen, partial freeze, ended up having to reboot.....
Ok, I guess I can see why I took a hiatus from DazStudio in the past.....it's not enough that there are a million things to learn and that many tutorials and manual are garbage (the DAZ3d official tutorials are a joke, obviously made by people who might know a lot but who have absolutely no clue about teaching things), on top of that there are always a million problems that are hard to predict and to fix..... they obviously sell a lot of porducts that have never been properly tested and without clear indications of what kind of hardware will function
Bummer, since 3D art has so much potential..... studio is really garbage though. Screw adding more powerful render engines, how about making sure that the current ones effing work? (those charactgers come with 3DL shaders, so they're supposed to work in 3DL but they obviously don't).
Rant over, but any advice would be appreciated
Sorry to hear you're having problems, not sure really what's going on. I have a Macbook 2012 with a chicken brain sized processor and 4GB of RAM with DS 4.7 installed, that I still use when I can't access my main DS machine. It works perfectly fine with 1 -3 characters, some props and a simple environment, renders pretty slow for sure, but no freezing/black screens or such.
So what happens if you load the G3F base character (or two) and fit the same hair and clothes to her? Does that work as expected?
G3F characters in general are fine.I have a scene in which I have five characters (can't post it because it has some nudity, no sex or anything just nudity, which I think is against this site's policy). It was a little slowish to render, but no partial freezes or black screens etc. I've only had that problems with the characters I mentioned (Jezebeth, Anneka shedevil, Janshi), mainly if I have more than one character.
I attached two renders with two characters (but also costumes, lightts, props, etc). They rendered fine, no weird freezing etc, and didn't even take long (but the characters are not HD, I think, at least Pretty Base isn't, not sure about the intergalactic tyrant). Had other scenes with multiple characters and no problems, the problems start as soon as I try to use the HD characters I mentioned (even though I used them in their human-like form, probably not as detailed as the fully demonic version).
Ok, that's good to know. So it really looks like the HD morphs are the culprit then. Had to try setting up a quick test with WalkerHD for Genesis1 on my old Macbook with DS 4.7. I chose a skin that uses displacement also, and just loaded an AoA distant light and ambient light. Rendered in 5 min. No SSS on the skin though. But yeah, same scene without HD morphs would probably take a minute or so.
Have you tried progressive rendering? Progressive mode calls the raytracer so it's a completely different method. Basically created to do quick previews, and is generally faster when there is a lot of raytracing going on. When using progressive, you don't need to worry about shading rate, it will be bypassed, but also the pixelwidth filters will be reset to box 1x1, which may cause some jagged edges in some cases with high contrast renders.
Your render looks fine, but while it's also HD it's a different character for a different type of model.....so it probably wouldn't have whatever issues I'm having. Iwill give progressive rendinring a try, but:
I'm using Daz 4.10, on a computer that well exceeds the stated minimum requirements for 3DL renders so I have no choice but to assume that the products I'm having problems with (all of them Daz Originals by the way, while I never had problems with products by other artists), were either
1- Only tested on beastly computers that do not reflect the reality of many hobbyists
2- Not tested at all (unlikely)
3 Tested and found buggy and error-causing, but the technical issues were purposefully not dislosed
4 Products were found to be buggy on computers below certain requirements (something that coincidentally wasn't mentioned on any page related to said products)
Either way, this is pretty scammy. These are DAZ originals, so it's not like they have the excuse that certain artists don't test their products.... I appreciate that DAZ3d has a solid refund policiy, but that doesn't compensate me for the hours wasted on trying to make the renders work, time waste plotting a story now I won't be able to make, or the disappointment to see that even products officially branded as DAZ originals turn out to be a rip off.
I will have to seriously consider whether I want to keep using Daz studio and dabbling with 3D art, but one thing is for certain: in the future I will avoid any HD DAZ Original products like the plague. This is ridiculous.
I tried using progressive rendering but nope, as usual trying to have Jangshi and Jezebeth in the same image crashed the computer again...I give up before this garbage actually damages my computer, but this is extremely disappointing.
Yeah it was the best thing I could come up with atm because my main rendering rig is a couple of miles away;) But note that G1 has more polygones than G3.
You could aways submit a bug report or ask for technical help if you don't intend to ask for a refund. Would be pretty interesting to see what they say:) Anyway, let me know if progressive mode is working better, that may help other users that have the same problem;)
First of all, dude, thanks again for your help.
Regarding porgressive rendering, I think I mentioned that I did try it but made absolutely no difference (image with Jiangshi and Jezebeth still crashed my computer)
However, I did conduct a couple more tests. I don't really have much for G3 or G8 as I just got back to DAZ studio, but I still ahve quite a bit for Genesis 2 (many great models and way more computer friendly....somebody more cynical than me might think they just come up with new stuff that isn't really that much better just to drain more money out of our pockets)
Anyways, I found out I do have some old HD models for Genesis 2. Here are two renders of an HD character for G2, the first was progressive, the second not. Both took less than two minutes and created absolutely no problems for my computer. Haven't tried putting two of them but I'm sure it would be fine. The Jiangshi renders already shown took three times as long. To conduct one more test I also got a friend to give me a copy of Zelar 8 (also HD). Tried a simple render (SubD set at 1) and my computer crashed.... so it seems like the issue is with HD morphs for G3 and G8 characters..... which would be fine if higher requirements were clearly indicated on the site but they are not.
thanks again dude, maybe I"ll try the bug report, maybe I won't bother. Daz seems more and more like a scam at this point.
One last post.....
I remembered that when I worked with G2 I also used an HD character a lot, with 0 problems (even though at the time I was using an older computer with less RAM)
Here's a sample....so yeah, I'm only having issues with HD characters for G3 and G8, up to G2 all the HD characters were fine