Best laptop for Daz?
klubbvisuals
Posts: 44
in The Commons
Hey all,
For the past year, I have been using Daz on a Macbook Air, which takes 12 hours to render an image at decent quality.
I am looking to buy a new laptop. I have no clue on what I should be buying.
I am looking for a laptop that is Windows. I have a maximum budget of 1200 USD. Is this enough? I am looking for a computer that can render relatively fast.
So, users of Daz, what laptop should I buy? Any help is appreciated.
Lucas
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Does it have to be a laptop? In the past it has been possible to get more for less in a desktop, plus you have the option of things like swapping out the GPU if you later want to which is not generally possible (other than via an eGPU) with a laptop. What other software will you want to use on the system?
It doesn't have to be a laptop but is prefered. I am looking to use Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere Pro, Daz, Facerig and Blender. Also, thank you so much for helping. Your work in the community isn't going un-noticed.
With the usual caveat that you'll get a lot more performance for the same money with a desktop, sometimes a laptop is the only viable option. Last year I had to use a laptop because I couldn't work in my office for medical reasons. So even though it's not ideal, I can appreciate that sometimes it's necessary.
I don't know US pricing, but here last year I bought an Asus RoG, i7,16GB, 1TB SSD, GTX1070 17" laptop for about £1800 inc tax. A quick look at today's ads shows a 2060 system for about £1500, and a 2070 for about £1700. US$ values are probably going to be pretty similar. So I think your $1200 is on the low side for a laptop (but maybe more ballpark for desktop systems).
Render times on my 1070 (which is last year's tech) are about twice as long as on my desktop 1080Ti upstairs. So in about an hour I can render what might only take 30 minutes on my desktop, but equally it would take 10+ hours on my 2012 i5 iMac
In terms of spec, to my mind screen size is hugely important: I wouldn't want to work on anything smaller than 17" (although younger eyes might find smaller screens still comfortable). It does make the laptop less portable, but that's the tradeoff. GPU is the most important technical aspect, and you'll want the best you can justify. There are still some 1070s and 1080s around, but I don't think they're much cheaper. RTX2070 or 2080 are the prime GPUs (and also the most expensive). 2060 is probably still quite usable, although obviously slower and less memory. One thing to bear in mind with the 20xx series GPUs is that you need to use the beta 4.11 version of Studio.
Other components are more or less the same as with any PC. The system drive will be SSD. Go for at least 512GB. 17" laptops often come with a mechanical 2nd HDD, typically 2GB, and this is where you'll keep your content libraries etc. 16GB+ of system RAM (don't go for the 8GB option - that really is the minumum usable amount!). CPU is probably the least crucial part, since most any i7 or even i5 will be up to the job.
I'm running one of these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01NAW8DX0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
With 16gb of RAM, and a GTX 1050ti video card installed. seems to handle most things fine. I run everything you've mentioned and a whole lot more. It has a handy upgrade bay too, so you can double the amount of RAM without having to destroy the case. The only downside is that the installed SSD is very small, and is the default install location for everything, which can be frustrating. It has a separate 1tb HHD, but I've got a couple of external drives running too.
There are probably many better options out there now though. I got this about a year ago in a sale, for about £900.
A $1200 laptop is not going to be qreat at any of those tasks. Particularly Premier and Daz. Your best bet at that price point is to get the highest core/thread count CPU you can at that price and do your renders in 3Delight and have Premier use the IGP on the CPU. If the videos you edit are 1080p, or worse resolution, that could be ok.
$1200 is not much of a strech right now because of the outgoing 10 series and incoming GTX 16 and RTX 20 laptops.
For example, The Dell G7 outgoing model. at newegg for $1150 right now you can get the i7 8750H (6c-12t), 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 6GB, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD and 15.6" 1080p. (and it has a very nice cooling setup, I know this because this is my wife's gaming laptop)
If you don't mind a refurbished laptop, newegg has the MSI GE72MVR APACHE PRO-062 for $1170. This one has a GTX 1070 8GB with the older i7 7700HQ (4c-8t), 16GB RAM, 128GB NVME SSD, 1TB HDD and 17" 1080p
Newegg has this one one for $1099 ASUS TUF Gaming Laptop with a GTX 1660 ti 6GB paired with a Ryzen 7 R7-3750H (4c-8t), 16GB RAM, 256GB NVME SSD, 1TB HDD and 15.6" 1080p.
I have an almost 4 year old MSI fangbook that still does the job pretty well. Not as fast as my desktop, but it's still nice. Cost me 1400 bucks tho ;). 17.3" 6 or 7th gen Intel (don't remember which), 16 gigs of ram (upgradeable to 32), 970m gfx card with 6 gigs.
Laurie
Edit: Checked that refurb JamesJAB linked at Newegg - I love how they say thin and light. Mine said that and and it's so heavy you could crack someone's head with it. LOL
Hello Lucas,
You just might want to check out this thread: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4388706/ Another poster was lookning for a laptop for a upgrade. Its a really good thread that just might help you out.
Also like the other has said, 1200USD isnt going to get you a laptop that is powerful enough to do ALL the things you want to do. I know when I get a new laptop this year, it will be a workstation laptop going around 1700-2500USD. I need it for ALL my digital work and music production. It will complement the desktop(2000-4500USD) that I hope to get much later this year. I need a portable workstation and static workstation.
There are a few AMD Ryzen 3750H + GTX 1660 Ti combos out there in the price range you are talking about. I've been looking for this 17" one in particular.
https://www.amazon.com/Gaming-TUF705DU-PB74-GTX1660Ti-Windows-Notebook/dp/B07R5B5SRZ
The 17" model is a bit more pricey, but there's also a 15" version for around $1100
8 GB of VRAM would be better, but 6 GB isn't too shabby.
Using the integrated Ryzen Vega graphics to drive your laptop monitor, leaving the 1660 Ti soley for rendering, would be ideal, assuming that the BIOS will allow you to use the integrated graphics to drive the monitor. I have a somewhat similar setup on the desktop side (Ryzen 2400G w/integrated Vega + 1080 Ti), which works out quite well. The 1080 Ti in my desktop rig isn't hooked up to any monitors, so it can focus 100% on Iray rendering.
Most of the time it's cheaper to build a desktop for work, AND to buy a basic laptop for mobility! :D
If you have to go with a laptop, make sure it support external GPUs, for upgradability. Otherwise, go for something with RTX.
I have been having great luck using my laptop (a three or four year old Alienware) and Jack Tomalin's Iray server.
I had thought about servers in general too! 1$ could be affordable, since they should also be pretty fast at rendering, but what about storage? Online servers often charge a lot for that, and a Daz library could weight hundreds of Gb.
You need to talk to Jack to get the full details, but it doesn't work the way you are thinking...
Once you have an account on his server, you enter your server log on information into the DAZ Studio Bridge tab under the Render function. Then when you are ready to render, you render to that server. DS then uploads all the needed files to the server, renders remotely, then you can download the finished files.
If you want to rerender, you don't have to reupload the files. DS automatically uploads only the new / changed files.
Here is an example of the results. Now be kind, this is an image I am still working on...
This is the raw, unprocessed image. Except that I converted the EXR file into a JPG and lowered the resolution.
This is the status information:
I rendered at 1500x2100, at a quality threshold of 97%. It took 3 minutes and 27 seconds.
It did take about 45 minutes to upload all the assets, once, but that is longer than normal due to my wireless connectivity.
I've rendered this image 3 times now as I tweaked the poses, the lighting, etc. At four minutes each, plus the 45 minutes of uploading, I rendered three images in an hour.
Does it have to be a laptop?
Could you use the laptop you still have for the laptoppy-things, and sink the cash into a desktop; you get more for less. You continue to get more for less as upgradeability continues the savings as time progresses.
I have a nvidia laptop I bought myself when the laptoppy-things were required (portability is pretty much the only reason imo); I have never bothered using it for rendering; I also have an Alienware laptop for work - not tempted to use that either.
Here's a thought: you could stream a desktop to your existing laptop if you are online. There are plenty of remote access apps out there. I have even ran Daz on my smartphone and tablet by streaming it. Then you could build a pimped out desktop without compromise. This also allows you to stay within Apple's ecosystem, at least on you laptop. (I think I just gagged a little typing that, but whatever floats your boat.)
Yeah, I agree laptops are for portiblity not power! If you want power or need to do serious work you need a workstation! Lots of cores 64 to 128gb of ram and a ssd to run os and a nice HD for everything else. Remote link and have workstation do the heavy lifting and keep you apple laptop.
What what what??? I'm very interested in what you said, but I don't understan any of it. What do you mean "stream a desktop"? What's a "pimped out desktop"?
Thanks!
There is a program called Splashtop Streamer that allows you to work from your laptop but use your desktop to do everything, just as if you were sitting in tront of it. All the computing power is being done by the desktop, you just control everything from your laptop. A small server runs in the system tray on your desktop and sends the screen image to the laptop. A smal program runs on the laptop and sends the commands back to the desktop. I used to use it back in the day on my ipad so that I could watch movies on it in my bedroom from the desktop in the living room. LOL
Check it out.
BTW, the only reason I suggested Splashtop is because I know it, I've used it, you can use it no matter where you are on the cheap and it's super super easy to set up. :) I'm sure there are others.
Laurie
I use a laptop for all my work. I sit at a desk all day, so I want the luxury of relaxing with a laptop. I use a ROG asus laptop with 17 inch display. It works pretty well for me.
Hello all,
Your help has been amazing,
I'm considering building a PC and then will occasionally use Splashtop Streamer.
To get fast renders, what parts should I be buying?
What are the parts called? I've never built a PC.
Lucas
..I'm very much in the desktop is better then notebook camp. For years all I had was a notebook and I constantly ran into its limitations. Granted this was still in the 32 bit days but Daz was also not as robust a programme as it is today (and we only had 3DL). The main issue I was always concerned about was overheating as most notebooks really don't offer the best in cooling solutions. I ended up not only using a cooling pad, but made a setup where the notebook was elevated from the desk with a small fan blowing air underneath. That said some of the keys over where the CPU was installed began to burn out from the heat. It eventually got to the point I had to get an external wireless keyboard. Granted even then I was pushing the system pretty hard with large and busy scenes.
When I moved to a desktop it was like stepping into an entirely new and larger world, more memory, better CPU, easier to upgrade components, and superior cooling. No more 85° - 90°C core temps risking a system shutdown in mid render. Instead I was seeing maximum core temperatures during render processes, including fairly involved scenes, in the high 50s to mid 60s (C). Even though I was still working with 3DL (Iray was about three years off) I noticed render times (including scenes that used UE) were significantly shorter. True I had more CPU cores than the notebook did, true it was also 64 Bit which had was limited to the total free memory on the MB (instead of the 2 GB allocation in 32 bit).
Yes, I could have purchased a new "state of the art" notebook then with similar resources, however it would have been almost twice as much as what I paid for the components to build my desktop at the time. Furthermore, as the Daz programme began to demand more system resources, I was easily able to expand the system. If I had a notebook, about the only upgrades I could make without having to take it into a tech shop would be swapping out memory modules and drives, and if it didn't have built in dedicated graphics (which back then added to the cost) I'd still be rendering in Iray on the CPU as the MB likely wouldn't be able to accommodate installing a GPU chip.
So if portability isn't a very major concern, I would consider a desktop instead.
My two zlotys worth.
Wow... Talk about the dark ages of notebook computers. lol
I remember my first Notebook Computer. Dell Inspiron 5160 equiped with a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 HT and a Geforce FX GO5200 with 64MB of VRAM. It was a furnace! Any program that was multithreaded and used the GPU at the same time would overheat the computer. Thankfully those days are over... for the most part.
The Notebook in my signature (Precision M6700) can run 100% load on the GPU and CPU over night (Rendering) and the keyboard is still within a few degrees of room temperature. The cooling setup is a dual fan beast.
Enough about notebooks.
The key to fast renders depends on what engine you are using.
Iray = Powerful Nvidia GPU with lots of VRAM
3Delight = Fast CPU with lots of cores/threads
Both = Lots of system RAM
If you're going to build it, you'll need a motherboard, system ram (the most you can afford - I would call 16 gigs minimum for Iray, maybe less for 3DL) , your graphics card (if you wanna do Iray, you'll need an Nvidia card of the GeForce variety, the newest you can afford with the most ram), hard drives (an SSD for the operating system is probably your best bet and if you want an SSD for the software, I'd get a second one. Otherwise a 7200 rpm regular hard drive should do for the software). DVD burner if you think you need it, power supply (needs to be big enough to supply power to everything), and your processor and cooling system (fan or liquid and at least a quad core - better if it's 6 or 8 cores). All of this needs to be researched CAREFULLY so that you get a big enough power supply (don't cheap out on this) to run all of your stuff. You need the correct motherboard for the processor you're getting, etc. You'll need a case too. If you've never built one before, do yourself a huge favor and research, research, research before you start buying components. A computer isn't hard to build, but you have to have a least an understanding of the components.
I don't know where in the world you are so I can't really suggest a place to look for components. Here in the U.S. where I am I'd suggest Newegg and I'd probably start off with a GOOD barebones kit that had the mobo, proc and maybe power supply to get you started. If you do it that way, at least you know the proc will work with the motherboard. Barebones kits usually have fans and/or liquid cooling kits too.
Laurie
.."research" that's what I did for months before I even set down to order parts. And yes never scrimp on the PSU (this is why I have never been fond of "off the shelf" systems as that is often their weak point). Also be careful of some systems that have "proprietary" components (Dell and HP are known for this) as it can cause trouble down the road when you decide to upgrade or replace parts.
Also consider a case that is designed with good airflow in mind. So many today have tempered glass front panels that may look neat, but have inadequate spacing between them and the front of the case frame for proper airflow. If you are looking to install a "big" GPU card I would suggest a large mid or full tower. The advantages are ease of assembly, servicing, upgrading the inner workings as well as more "breathing space" for components (another reason I am not really fond of notebooks for heavy duty "lifting" like rendering as everything is crammed so tightly together in a very small package).
That's very interesting, thank you! 1000 iterations in 3 minutes is crazy fast.
But what if they hack the server and steal your password?
Can you give me a link? Are the prices fixed per hour?
https://pcpartpicker.com/
This is the site I use to help me build my PC's
If you click on the flag, you can see if it has a version for your country.
Oh, and "pimped out desktop" would mean a computer that has all the best and newest stuff in it (think powerful and expensive). LOL It's just slang and you're probably not from the States. LOL
Laurie