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How do I know if it’s for dforce only?

Philippi_ChildPhilippi_Child Posts: 665
in The Commons

Sometimes there are really cool outfits I like that read they are deforce.

but I understand that just because it’s dforce compliant doesn’t mean it can’t be used without dforce. How do I know a product is strictly for dforce only when there is no or very little description of the product?

Comments

  • JamesJABJamesJAB Posts: 1,766

    Unlike the old Optitex based dynamic clothing, for the most part all dforce clothing sold on Daz3D is rigged like a standard conforming item.

    In other words, if you never run a simulation the cloths will look and behave just like any other conforming clothing.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    Here's the way I decide: if the item is sold here, it's probably rigged. If it's sold elsewhere, you can never be certain. I only get dforce from here if I plan to use it without dforce.

    Laurie

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    edited May 2019
    JamesJAB said:

    Unlike the old Optitex based dynamic clothing, for the most part all dforce clothing sold on Daz3D is rigged like a standard conforming item.

    In other words, if you never run a simulation the cloths will look and behave just like any other conforming clothing.

    The clothes may conform, but I think the concern here is that the clothing may lack many of the shape morphs that clothing might normally have if it were not made for dforce. For example, there could be a dress that is for dforce which has no or very few shaping options, rather, the PA leaves out shape morphs expecting the customer to use dforce to accomplish all the movement. While it may not be "dforce only" and still conform, such a product certainly would not be friendly for someone who does not use dforce. Dforce needs some decent hardware to use on a regular basis. It can be really time consuming. It can explode. People may have a variety of reasons to not use dforce.

    There are a few hairs that are very much dforce only. The Classic Long Hair only has a few shape morphs which are supposed to be dforce presets. These morphs position the hair for dforce and are not intended to be used as a final shape preset. So the hair will not function correctly at all without dforce. The concern the op has is if we may get clothing like this. I think it is a valid question. You cannot simply get by conforming a dress.

    Ah, I can think of some capes that were released for dforce. The IDG Dforce Cloaks and Capes will not work without dforce simulation. These load up looking like flat discs, and the customer must simulate them in dforce for the cloak to fall around the character. Without dforce this product simply will not work, thus it is dforce only. So these things do exist, and we will probably get more like this. The bigger concern though is that PAs will start not making shape morphs expecting customers to simulate them.

    Post edited by outrider42 on
  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 3,053

    Usually a product will be explicit about being for dForce only, as it is generally otherwise assumed that the clothing is rigged as a conforming item. You may however find it will not have all the same corrective morphs as if it were a purely conforming item.

    Of course, one question to ask yourself is why you're worried about a product being dForce only; as you're going to spend ages rendering it, a little time simulating the clothing isn't really much of a headache.

    (Personally, it's always a nice treat to find out that an older item that wasn't specifically made for dForce can be coaxed to work with simulation; it's particularly welcome when using auto-fit, as dForce compatiblity means a very good chance of clothing working on basically any generation).

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,413

    if it has Dforce on it I do tend to expect it to work in Dforce though angry

    I gave up and used Virtual World Dynamics on quite a few of such labeled outifits after they exploded 3 frames in on a walk cycle

  • Philippi_ChildPhilippi_Child Posts: 665
    AllenArt said:

    Here's the way I decide: if the item is sold here, it's probably rigged. If it's sold elsewhere, you can never be certain. I only get dforce from here if I plan to use it without dforce.

    AllenArt said:

    Laurie

    Thanks!

    Looking back at my original post I should have phrased it better. I guess what I was trying to ask was if it states it’s dforce can it be used like rigged clothing it’s hard to know since the information or description doesn’t embellish that it can be used without dforce.

    I like dforce but sometimes I just want to use clothes that I don’t have to re simulate over and over each time I change a pose or reposition a figure since I do storyboard type renders.

     

     

  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 2,006

    I think the short answer is that the best way is to ask about specific clothing in the forums. That way people who already have it might be able to let you know how it is rigged and how bends look without dforce. The store presentation basically assumes dforce will always be used from what I have seen so far.

  • Philippi_ChildPhilippi_Child Posts: 665
    AlmightyQUEST said:

    I think the short answer is that the best way is to ask about specific clothing in the forums. That way people who already have it might be able to let you know how it is rigged and how bends look without dforce. The store presentation basically assumes dforce will always be used from what I have seen so far.

    Copy that thanks 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    PaganArtist said:
    AllenArt said:

    Here's the way I decide: if the item is sold here, it's probably rigged. If it's sold elsewhere, you can never be certain. I only get dforce from here if I plan to use it without dforce.

    AllenArt said:

    Laurie

    Thanks!

    Looking back at my original post I should have phrased it better. I guess what I was trying to ask was if it states it’s dforce can it be used like rigged clothing it’s hard to know since the information or description doesn’t embellish that it can be used without dforce.

    I like dforce but sometimes I just want to use clothes that I don’t have to re simulate over and over each time I change a pose or reposition a figure since I do storyboard type renders.

     

     

    To be honest, I wouldn't buy any dresses or long hanging clothing (or hair) made for dforce because movement morphs/bones may not be there. I did buy one for pants and I would for a form fitting shirt and something like that should work well enough, but really, dforce is made to be simulated. I'd stick to conformers if you really don't want dforce. I know they're getting few and far between now tho :/

    Laurie

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,413

    If it’s well made it should have some preDforced drapes for the main movements in anyway such as side left right front back, some do as this is useful for those whose computers cannot handle Dforce and if the garment is truely Dforce ready not that hard for the PA to do and save as a morph preset.

    If they are not there I tend to think it’s not an easy garment to simulate.

  • ColinFrenchColinFrench Posts: 649
    PaganArtist said:
    It’s hard to know since the information or description doesn’t embellish that it can be used without dforce.

    I just check if the clothing's details lists a dozen or more of the usual shaping morphs. E.g. "Expand This" or "Move That Left" etc etc. If it doesn't, it's probably depending on dForce.

    If you really, really like a particular item and it's missing the usual shaping morphs, you may be able to add something like Zev0's Fit Control to adjust it.

     

    outrider42 said:

    Dforce needs some decent hardware to use on a regular basis. It can be really time consuming. It can explode. People may have a variety of reasons to not use dforce.

    The bigger concern though is that PAs will start not making shape morphs expecting customers to simulate them.

    To sort of combine your two points, another reason dForce can't always be used is that it doesn't always drape things the way you want. Maybe a particular pose in combination with the clothing item makes the simulation do something unexpected. Then you might have to start tweaking the simulation parameters, or the dForce settings the PA applied to the clothing, re-run the simulation to see if it works and so on.

    Meanwhile you're thinking that if it only had the good old "Move X Left" shaping morph, you could have made the small tweak you want in 2 seconds.

    There are several products from new artists over on another site which I have passed over since they are dForce only. I hope that the PA's here continue to realize that, in it's current form, dForce may be a handy tool but it cannot be expected to handle all situations.

  • Philippi_ChildPhilippi_Child Posts: 665

    Thanks everyone for your input it's very much appreciated.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Wendy_Carrara said:

    if it has Dforce on it I do tend to expect it to work in Dforce though angry

    I gave up and used Virtual World Dynamics on quite a few of such labeled outifits after they exploded 3 frames in on a walk cycle

    Yup.

    I don't use conforming; if it is conforming, it get's dynamiced either with VWD or fForce.

     

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