What happened to "Iray Blizzard" by KindredArts?
LaPartita
Posts: 411
in The Commons
I recently bought a product called "Iray Blizzard," by @KindredArts, but now it seems to have disappeared. The link to the product page (https://www.daz3d.com/iray-blizzard) has been 404'ing for a few days. I submitted a help ticket, and was told that the product "has been disabled" and that the help desk "does not know when or if it will be reenabled."
Does anyone know what's going on??
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Quite a few of their products have been pulled including the latest release the Graffittiworx, I did buy it but I'm concerned that it might have been pulled for copyright so I'm returning it.
Graffitiworx is due back "soon" - see this post: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4420686/#Comment_4420686
KindredArts posted in another thread saying that they've been pulled for an update, but will be back in the store soon.
Shame that it wasn't actually announced, I tend to return products that are pulled without reason. As the product was only released very recently I find it odd that its getting an update.
I bought the product in December but it's still shows in my product library. The similar storm and rain products are still in the store, so I don't think it's a compatibility issue. This store just gets weirder and weirder.
This is a problem, since pulled items disappear from your wishlist if you add anything else to it. So when it comes back later as an old item, nobody will see it among the new ones, and by that time it'll be gone from most people's wishlists.
Items pulled from the store DO NOT get removed from your product library and are still downloadable by any of the usual methods. They don't ever get "taken back" from those who bought and paid for them.
I know the product won't be "taken back" but would an update remove the current materials if it is indeed a copyright issue? I hope not, because I really like Graffitiworx the way it is. It adds so much realism to urban renders. I love it!
But if there's a problem severe enough for the product to have been pulled, shouldn't the customer be notified? It seems to me that this is a recall situation, and digital products should be treated like any other purchase. Goodness knows they cost enough. The only reason I found out the product had been pulled was because I periodically check my purchases from the last 30 days to see if any products have been marked down.
Now I find myself in the uncomfortable position of trying to decide if I should keep a product that has an unknown but obviously severe issue (think of all the products that have major problems but don't get pulled!), or return it within the 30 day window.
On the one hand, I love KindredArts. Every other product of theirs that I own is amazing - useful, easy to learn, and the quality is stellar. I bought the "Iray Blizzard" product because it fills a hole in my product library, and because I have a number of projects I planned to use it for. I don't want to return it. I want it to be fixed (soon), so I can use it!
On the other hand, I've learned the hard way that I'd better check products to make sure they work before the 30 day return window is up. If I can't get it to work within that window, I return it. Help tickets can take months to be resolved - and sometimes they aren't resolved at all. The Daz Help Desk has officially informed me that they have no idea when the product will be fixed, and that they are not even willing to commit to being able to fix the product at all. They "apologize for the inconvenience," which is a lovely sentiment, but under the circumstances seems more like an empty boilerplate platitude than anything sincere.
More practically, it does nothing to mitigate the "inconvenience" (to use their word; I'd choose a stronger word, myself) Daz has caused me, or give me any guidance or information that can help me make a decision about keeping the product.
@LaPetiteVerita, You can trust Kindred Arts and his products. I've worked with him and I know he is very diligent about doing right by his customers. That he has disabled a very small percentage of his products while he works on an update shows his integrity, imo. And he has said in the previously linked thread that things will be back, or specifically, "I'll do my spring cleaning and get everything back to normal asap."
As for image copyright issues in general, @scorpio, one would expect licensing not to change after acquiring an image, but I have seen instances where an image license was purchased from the copyright holder, who later sold that copyright to a big name stock provider, and the people who purchased from the original copyright holder later found themselves embroiled in legal battles as the new copyright holder went after them for copyright infringement. It shouldn't happen, but it does.
ETA: Changed the company name to make sure I wasn't violating TOS. If you want to know who the big name stock provider is, Scorpio, PM me…
@L'Adair - oh, that is reassuring! I really didn't want to return this product!
I read through the linked threads, but was having trouble sorting out which KA product was under discussion. I thought the issue with Iray Blizzard was something that needed to be solved by Daz, and my experience with Daz's timely resolutions of help tickets and technical issues has been ... well, presumably the same as everyone else's.
If KindredArts is the one who is fixing the problem, that changes my perception of the situation considerably. I only know him through his work and from browsing his forum threads, of course, but I have tremendous respect for his commitment to and pride in his products, as well as for his willingness to help people learn to use his products (no matter how new or inept we might be). It's part of why I bought the "blizzard" product when I already own KA's Snow, Ice, and Ash product. I took it as a given that if KA had created another virtual snow machine, the new product was able to do things that the older one could not.
I agree with your assessment - for a PA to pull their own products while working on an update shows tremendous integrity. I still think the help desk could have been more helpful (being told the product may not ever be fixed was not terribly reassuring!), but that's another issue - plus I'm sure there's lots of red tape and restrictions on the help desk that I'm not aware of.
@mr clam, Here is what the documentation now reads for Graffitiworx under resolved Issues: Updated to remove copyrighted sources. The download size of the new file is 530 mb, the original one was 956 mb.
Does this mean it should be back in the store? I can't find it.
I don't know. I just have the update in my DIM. Since the documentation page has no product image, maybe they're waiting on new promos to re-release?
@Phoenix1966--Thanks for the info!
No problem. If you decide to keep the original version installed, I did notice there is a 364 MB jpeg in the texture folder that is not necessary (and explains some of the size difference between the two versions). It's texture file KA Take it Easy.jpg. You can delete that file and it doesn't affect that decal.
yup, this is a problem. i wishlisted the graffiti, but it concerns every single product that disappears from wishlists. mine is huge, and when there are sales with many PAs i use the wishlist checkbox from the addon - too many items to go thru otherwise. i don't often remember who the PA is for items that i want/have either. so anything disappearing from my wishlist is at min. 50% risk to not come into my view at all. daz please fix it or sth...
Yeah. I went through every single item in the store (yes!) to choose the ones I would like. Then every day I start with the day's new items. So everything I want is on my wishlist. If something randomly disappears from the wishlist, it means I won't ever buy it, even if it comes back later--I won't go through every item in the store again... :D
exactly. so instead of deleteing the product from the store or whatever they do, they should have a system to make it invisible for buyers, and then upload whatever changes they have on the same page, so everyone who has wishlisted or even bookmarked the product/page will find it again.
a bit like on deviantart when you put a deviation in storage. it's invisible for anyone else, but when you choose to put it back, you just take it out of storage. it would be bothersome to have to re-do a whole submission procedure for a deviation you only want away for a while for some reason.
and if this is not possible with daz server/system - then make it a new release so everyone sees it again and can wishlist/bookmark it again! since it doesn't happen too frequently, it shouldn't hurt the sacrosaint rules about new releases imo.
Hi Guys! As mentioned above, this is a round of updates to mitigate any future licensing issues. The issue doesn't affect the end user, it specifically involves how files are packed and distributed. The issue was only raised over one of my sets, but i wanted to take down and pick through all of my prior shader sets to make sure there are no conflicts. I'm not sure if the sets i've taken down are an problem, but it's better to be safe than sorry. I've already updated graffitiworx and removed some bloat in the process. I'm going to tackle the rest around my upcoming releases. Bare with my guys, i'm working as quickly as i can.
That sounds like it would be a good solution.
Already in my library, I don't plan to pay it again for a "Back in store" version
We're 99% sure. The item stays in your wishlist as "free" when temporarily pulled from the store. If at this point, it comes back, it should stay in there. However, when you add anything to the wishlist, the item is gone.
You could restore all your wishlist backups one after the other in hopes that something recently pulled just got added back--but since this does not happen too often, I don't think many people are likely to do this.
wishlist backups? is this a feature offered by your daz deals addon? tho i use the simplest version thereof - no registering no email no nothing ~
The documentation readme is never taken down, once it is made. Every new product now gets one (although some of the older ones never had one, and never will, apparently), so maybe you could leverage that somehow.
Yeah. When you sync to us, then the wishlist is saved for 30 days, and you can restore it any time you like. By restore, I mean add the missing ones, not delete anything, so anything you added since the backup, still remains in your wishlist. It's not for situations like this, though. It is primarily for situations when a major part of your wishlist disappears. You notice that you used to have over 1000 items, and now you only have 600. But when one item is removed, you don't necessarily notice. And there is no way to tell when that comes back. So in situations like this, you may get lucky, but who would keep restoring older backups just in case something came back? That's not convenient at all.
yup, not convenient, true. it's even more confusing. and i never sync anywhere online with anything - at all, no exception ^^
so it's gonna be sheer luck if i find anything that for some reason was and then wasn't on my wishlist. yay. but since i already have megaloads of items and no money and 3d is not essential, i guess i'll survive ^^
1) DIM also includes item updates in the top part of the Ready to Download section. So once its available again, you should be able to get the updated version.
2) When a product is pulled from Daz store, it certainly doesn't get deleted off your computer either, if you previously downloaded it.
So I have no idea why you think you'd have to pay again once the item is restored to the store. The ONLY way that would happen is if you'd returned the item/s.