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Will AMD GPUs Support Arrive? (New GPU Leak)

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  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    kenshaw011267 said:
    outrider42 said:

     

    kenshaw011267 said:

    IRay had raytracing the day it was released. If you mean when will it have support for RTX, keep in mind iRay is not a major profit center for Nvidia. They have a render engine basically to check that box. If they really cared about it they would have been supporting it and the other gpu accelerated render engines prior to launch. But they don't so they didn't but it is also important to keep in mind if you haven't been following the gaming press that the actual launch of RTX enabled games has been a major bust.

    Yes that is what I meant, every word. And that is exactly why I say to watch out for gaming engines, Unreal in particular. Unreal has made a lot of advancements in a very short time, and Epic has invested a lot of money in this engine.

    Ray tracing has only been a bust in the sense that Nvidia has charged so much for these cards. If the prices of RTX were more in line with Pascal, then ray tracing would be seen as a bonus and a sneak peak at technology to come. The entire press narrative would be different. But instead, the prices are making people feel like they are paying a high price for a feature that has little use at this time. It is a simple as that, the price is sole determining factor in the negative launch of RTX. This will change as the tech evolves. 

    You have that wrong. Gamers didn't like the prices 2 months ago when the cards launched. Now prices have come down some and most of that angst is over, with exception of the 2080ti. But when Battlefield 5 finally enabled real time raytracing and overall performance went down gamers were ticked off. They're still waiting for an explanation of why a new separate subsystem is tanking performance as badly as it is. That the actual in game effects are no where near the demos and supposed game footage is just salt in the wound. Particularly for those who did spend in excess of $1200 for a 2080ti.

    If proof were needed, this tells me that buying marketing-hype is a poor way to get what one wants or is being told; snake-oil salesman are more sophisticated now.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,931

    ...from what I've seen of Unity, scenery and interior sets can look great in cinematic mode while lighting is very good.  However put a character in from Daz or Poser and  what I've seen, it doesn't seem to quite match the quality of the rest of the scene. 

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    kenshaw011267 said:
    outrider42 said:

     

    kenshaw011267 said:

    IRay had raytracing the day it was released. If you mean when will it have support for RTX, keep in mind iRay is not a major profit center for Nvidia. They have a render engine basically to check that box. If they really cared about it they would have been supporting it and the other gpu accelerated render engines prior to launch. But they don't so they didn't but it is also important to keep in mind if you haven't been following the gaming press that the actual launch of RTX enabled games has been a major bust.

    Yes that is what I meant, every word. And that is exactly why I say to watch out for gaming engines, Unreal in particular. Unreal has made a lot of advancements in a very short time, and Epic has invested a lot of money in this engine.

    Ray tracing has only been a bust in the sense that Nvidia has charged so much for these cards. If the prices of RTX were more in line with Pascal, then ray tracing would be seen as a bonus and a sneak peak at technology to come. The entire press narrative would be different. But instead, the prices are making people feel like they are paying a high price for a feature that has little use at this time. It is a simple as that, the price is sole determining factor in the negative launch of RTX. This will change as the tech evolves. 

    You have that wrong. Gamers didn't like the prices 2 months ago when the cards launched. Now prices have come down some and most of that angst is over, with exception of the 2080ti. But when Battlefield 5 finally enabled real time raytracing and overall performance went down gamers were ticked off. They're still waiting for an explanation of why a new separate subsystem is tanking performance as badly as it is. That the actual in game effects are no where near the demos and supposed game footage is just salt in the wound. Particularly for those who did spend in excess of $1200 for a 2080ti.

    Say what? Prices have not come down enough. The 2080ti is the fastest card on the market by far. It is a true generational leap over the 1080ti, and the 2080 and 2070 follow suit with the expected performance gains that you would expect those cards to have. The performance for Battlefield V did not decrease. The 2080ti still runs the game at a very high frame rate without ray tracing, in fact it runs the game faster than any other card in existence by a country mile. If you enable RTX, it drops to about half that, but why would anyone expect otherwise? This is brand new first generation tech, and it is naive and stupid to expect it to play 4K 60fps with ray tracing enabled. However Battlefield V did release an update that boosts RTX performance by a whopping 60%, which demonstrates just how much the developers have to learn about using RTX. You can now play BFV at 1440p well over 60 fps with all settings maxxed, including RTX Ultra. Perhaps with more optimization they can get even more.

    Are really going to tell me that if the 2080ti was $800 that people would be hating it so much? Because I beg to differ.

    Every review of Turing was essentially the same. They liked the numbers, but not the price. It doesn't matter what outlet you look at, either. Hardware Unboxed was pretty clear in their review, they loved the numbers and the performance gains over Pascal, but not the prices. This has persisted. There have been some very minor price drops, but nothing like what is needed. If the 2080ti drops under $900 you might have argument. Otherwise this is not a contest.

    So I will say it again, if Turing had released at a reasonable price, this conversation would not be happening. Instead, you have a $1300+ 2080ti. I am not sure where you are seeing these deals, either. The 2080 and 2070 have had some very tiny price breaks, but the 2080ti is still $1300 or more at every outlet. $699 is the MSRP of the 2080, so cards that have "dropped" to closer to $750 are not exactly what I consider "hot deals". They are still all well above MSRP, which is still well above what gamers were expecting these cards to cost.

    To put it into perspective, the 1080ti released at $700. It runs neck and neck with the new 2080 in many games, they trade blows. One game the 2080 pulls ahead, and in another game the 1080ti pulls ahead. In other games the cards are in a dead heat with near identical results. And yet...the 2080 costs MORE than a 1080ti. That is not how generational leaps are supposed to work. In a normal leap, the new x80 would cost less than the x80ti of the previous generation. And this where your argument falls apart. What are you paying for with the 2080? With 8GB VRAM it has less VRAM than the 1080ti, so if prices are this close, WHY buy a 2080? You only buy a 2080 for the Tensor and RT cores, and if that is the case, then it should be obvious you are paying EXTRA for unproven new features. However, if the 2080 had launched at a reasonable price, like the 1080's $550, then people would be snatching up 2080's and loving it. Instead they are a full $200 more than that. How can you possibly think the price is not an issue now?

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    Battlefield 5 turned on RTX and fps went down by half. You don't seem to see that as a problem. Everyone else does. That Nvidia apparently helped them get a patch out that only cut fps by 25% is still not acceptable. Independent subsystem remember? Nvidia promised no negative impact on games not a 25% hit. The entire gaming community paying attention to this assumes the other games that promised RTX this year are holding back because they're unwilling to take the PR hit for Nvidia.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990

    How could something as heavy as real time raytracing not have a negative effect on perfomance? Where did Nvidia ever claim such a thing, it makes no sense. It would essentially mean that the new RTX hardware could calculate rays at any speed you want, no matter what you throw at it.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    bluejaunte said:

    How could something as heavy as real time raytracing not have a negative effect on perfomance? Where did Nvidia ever claim such a thing, it makes no sense. It would essentially mean that the new RTX hardware could calculate rays at any speed you want, no matter what you throw at it.

    Nvidia says the raytracing is done by new structures on the gpu. These are supposed to be parallel processing structures just like all the other specialized structures on gpu's that allow for greater performance. None of the others allow infinite performance so why should raytracing? 

  • Richard John SRichard John S Posts: 391
    edited December 2018

    Since we are on the topic, I wish 3Delight would get GPU support via AMD and Nividia. In it's current state, it's just too slow renering in CPU mode. When it comes to cartoon, comic, etc characters I really like the results of 3delight over Iray.

    Post edited by Richard John S on
  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    kenshaw011267 said:

    Battlefield 5 turned on RTX and fps went down by half. You don't seem to see that as a problem. Everyone else does. That Nvidia apparently helped them get a patch out that only cut fps by 25% is still not acceptable. Independent subsystem remember? Nvidia promised no negative impact on games not a 25% hit. The entire gaming community paying attention to this assumes the other games that promised RTX this year are holding back because they're unwilling to take the PR hit for Nvidia.

    Do you have a link where Nvidia states that ray tracing would have no impact on performance? Because I do not recall them ever making this claim. I watched the entire RTX reveal live. The show was very vague, and never gave a single performance quote. The only specs ever quoted were how many gigarays the GPU could cast, which is a stat that has no real meaning to gamers.

    After the shows, both Battlefield and Metro developers stated they were targeting 60 fps 1080p long before the RTX feature got enabled in Battlefield V. So the performance was never a big secret. I can link you articles on this if you need them. And seriously, how can any logical person expect ray tracing to have no impact on performance? To expect the "holy grail of gaming" to suddenly work perfectly on the very first try is completely foolish. Everyone was saying that this tech still needed time to mature, possibly another generation or two.

    Again, it comes back to price. If the cards were cheaper, gamers would see ray tracing as a new bonus feature that will improve in future generations. Instead the press narrative focuses on how $1300 only gets you 60 fps at 1080p (now 1440p). The negative press and vibe around Turing has been there since the beginning.

    You might want to watch a video by Digital Foundry. These guys were much more pleased to see ray tracing in gaming, and they understand this is only the beginning.

    Also releasing it now does get ray tracing out there. When GPUs do arrive that can handle this better, there will already be games ready for it. And developers will have better understanding of how to use it. And I do think that Nvidia's next architecture will be much better. While the CUDA cores will do the typical 30% increase, the RT and Tensor sections will get great improvements.
  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    Nvidia forced this on gamers and jacked up prices as well as hyping the feature as the only real feature of Turing. Of course they didn't say it was coming at no performance hit but they strongly implied it. No one in the gaming community would have touched these cards at those prices for lower fps with the marquee feature turned on.

    This is turning into the next Hairworks at least as far as gamers are concerned.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,368

    Closed.

This discussion has been closed.