Will AMD GPUs Support Arrive? (New GPU Leak)
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Many people bought a W7 computer and never upgraded no matter what and that included many small businesses with no IT support. It is not surprising that the installed base of Win7 remains large. That does not make Win10 inferior in any way. As an IT pro I can state with confidence that Win10 is superior in enough ways that everyone should have upgraded.
GTX 1060 3GB. With the cost of a year of membership I would easily upgrade to a 1070!
Now this is interesting! It would be a lot of work to convert every damn file I guess...and it would be pretty uncomfortable to buy something from DAZ Shop, if everytime you have to do that..but it's interesting anyway!
...wooow!!! Very good point!
And so you're telling us also that with the 20 Nvidia series we could someday use our system RAM too?
Very interesting post, thank you! :D
The only things I'd add are that if Unreal will improve, Iray won't wait in the corner. But it's very important that those networks have lot of money, and so are interesting in making big updates!
This seems strange to me too...why the heck the RTX cards don't go much faster? They have extra cores thought for Ray Tracing...
The vast majority of it is due to people having old hardware, or lacking the knowledge to change OS, at least in my experience. I know there probably are people who know what they're doing and don't like Windows 10, but I doubt they'll move the economy and the future of software: sooner or later, they'll have to switch, and Windows 10 is MUCH more optimized for new hardware.
You don't like the privacy stuff? There's a tool called DWS...
Whats more, free Octane available for Unity, has Out Of Core feature included, saving you paying $20 per month.
If you want to see my experiments with Octane, go to the Daz Forum thread - Iray Versus Octane Renderer in Daz
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/293421/iray-versus-octane-renderer-in-daz#latest
I plan to do more renders in Octane.
Custom shaders and lights, and some add-on shaders and lights, did not translate but the default shaders (Daz Default Shader, AoA SSS Shader, and I think one or two others) were tanslated on the fly at render time.
Wow, thanks for the tip! :D
It's a pity that there's no automatic way to use my Daz products there...
This customer would; I'd prefer something with more support, something that doesn't effectively tie me to one manufacturer.
Yes, there is - by paying $20 per month for Octane with Daz Studio plugin.
For me it is no brainer - the more I use the free Octane, the more I save.
....my mistake thought it was a Radeon..
...I know how to disable the telemetry so that's not the issue. For myself the oft buggy, "force fed" bundled updates and ridiculous amount of useless feature "fluff" that comes along with it, as well as having to buy new periphreal hardware as what I have is not supported by W10 but works fine for my needs. If I had gone with the "free offer" I'd be stuck with Home Edition which is very restricted and totally at the mercy of MS's update schedule (updating cannot be deferred to a later date like with the Pro Edition). Last thing i need is to deal with a lot of downtime when something goes wrong becuase of a serious bug and having to reinstall everything from scratch again.
I know, but as I said this is not my job, 20$/month is great for who works in the render field, not for who just wants to have fun, and maybe wants to spend those 20$ in products! And you should consider how many free products, both in Daz Shop and on other websites, you can get!
Actually, you can install any version of Windows 10 you want without any key legally and they won't bother you, I've done that on more than 5 PCs...they're just trying to expand the W10 userbase.
With DWS you can uninstall any bloatware that bothers you, but consider that it's getting better and better (for example I use OneNote on my smartphone, and it's syncronized with my PCs).
It's a good thing to force updates, because security etc. is one of the biggest limits on Windows, look at what happened in England a few years ago.
Never had those serious bugs.
Really, according to me W10 is the best Microsoft OS ever. The new CEO is making wonders (next Edge will be based on Chromium and support Chrome extensions for example, and they're supporting linux).
The app world of Microsoft Store is very interesting too: you can have them updated without any hassle, they're very light and modern (for example the VLC app is so much better than the standard software), you can watch Netflix at 1080p...
Regarding the peripherals...how old are them? Many mobos have the old connectors for mouse and keyboard. My experience was very different: I have a very old printer, the Samsung drivers didn't work, but with the standard Microsoft drivers it works like a brand new one (scanner function too!)
But I guess this is a little bit OT
Not arguing with the statistics, but they have to be taken with a grain of salt. A few factors to consider:
Neither of those groups of machines (conservative corporate or "certain countries"), however, likely factor significantly into the target market for this kind of stuff. I'm not saying none of the "Windows 7 adherents" worldwide aren't in the target market - far from it. I know there are people here who have stuck with their "tried and true." But the folks making the business decisions are likely going to look at the bulk of whatever they consider their target market to be, as opposed to the global statistics, and may possibly consider W7 adherents to be "outliers," given where W7 is in its lifetime. Thus, they may not worry about not being able to support the W7-ers, simply because the economics of doing so aren't favorable for them.
Just my $0.02.
I stop updates until I'm ready (yes beyond what is allowed by MS); I remove all the crap.
The only thing I don't like about W10 I can't do anything about is the Gfx card RAM hogging; this has me constantly looking at alternatives to IRAY, as then it opens up the possibility of cheaper AMD cards.
...again, you can defer updating for a while with 10 Pro. which also allows for easier configuration as to what features to keep or dump by setting up a workgroup.
If you dedicate your primary GPU card(s) to just rendering and use wither MB's graphics chipset or a lesser card to run the displays, that should bypass W10's WDDM when rendering.
...yeah for my needs W7 is fine as I cannot afford more "state of the art" hardware on my income. As to peripherals, it's not the physical connections, it's the drivers that W10 doesn't support as some of mine are from the Xp days and work just fine with W7.
It doesn't.
You can stop any Windows 10 from updating; for as long as you want - although that could be a bad idea.
... And as previuously stated: it is legal to use it without regestering. Some features are disabled, but it is perfectly useable. It is fine on my own laptop. I use a paid for version on my desktop of Pro.
...interesting, I read on several posts both here and other forums that as long as you don't hook the card up your displays you get its total VRAM for rendering.
If that is not the case, then no way will I ever use W10 (unless I can afford a Titan RTX, which like the Quadro line, allows you bypass it).
If you prefer W7 use it, no problem! :D
I like W10, and I'm happy I switched to it as soon as it got out ^^
Personally I couldn't keep the same hardware even if I wanted...I always want to change little things here and there xD
I used to think that; but with W10, I seem to not be able to render scenes I once could.
That's an anecdote not evidence. There are plenty of people who have tested that Win10 works as advertised.
Now this is interesting! It would be a lot of work to convert every damn file I guess...and it would be pretty uncomfortable to buy something from DAZ Shop, if everytime you have to do that..but it's interesting anyway!
Questions about the above:
I was not aware that DAZ assetts could be exported from DS in the .FBX format. Is this possible, or is another program required to make that conversion for the export?
If .FBX is so versatile and useful, then why is not all items simply made available in this file format? And is DS able to use it?
No, Daz native format is much better in my opinion and more suitable for Daz Studio and items in Daz store,
but it is not supported by Unity and free version of Octane works in Unity.
FBX is a general format for exchange 3D data and animations, owned now by Autodesk - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBX
Previously FBX import/export was available as a paid plugin for Daz Studio,
but since a long time ago it is included for free in Daz Studio as one of the formats in File | Export menu.
You can also import FBX files into Daz Studio.
There is, however, at least one vendor here in Daz store - https://www.daz3d.com/polygonal-miniatures
which sells their products in FBX format.
Thanks very much, Artini.
Your comment is no less an anecdote.
I know what scenes I was rendering prior to W10; sadly, I can't compare.
I was minutes away from buying me a new computer since mine is over 5 years old and has an old Nvidia card (with Intel i3) so rendering in Daz Studio is pretty slow. I was going for HP with AMD Radeon RX 580 since I heard good reviews about it. Not the latest, but not too old either. I was hoping it was going to help me with rendering, but it seems I won't be able to use iRay because it is not an NVidea card. Am I understanding correctly?
...correct.
Thank you for the quick response, Kioto Kid. I was literaly about to buy me the wrong PC! Bummer. I have been taking my old PC for granted. I had installed the nVidia card (GeForce GT 730) before iray was even announced. I thought the nVidia was just making the Iray rendering and freeing the CPU and not that it was exclusive to it. Thank you kameneko for making this threat. I guess I'll have to save me a few more bucks before I can get me a new PC with a good nVidia card. :(
I'm going to chip in; why buy a branded PC? You generally get less for more (cash). Of course, this means either building your own or know of a trustworthy thirdparty (professional or not) to build one.
I build PC's as a side gig so I have a lot of experience with this. Pre built computers are always a bad buy. At the best you pay a significant premium and often are doing so for less than optimum parts choices. At worst you are getting really terrible parts except for the marquee ones which will make your experience unpleasant and the machines lifespan short, for example see the reviews of the Wal-Mart PC.
I get that building one yourself is intimidating. If you simply will not or cannot you can easily enough find someone like me local to you by checking Craigslist or similar. I will spec out a PC to fit your needs or assemble parts you supply. Any decent builder will do the same. I do not warranty the compatibility of parts supplied to me by someone else obviously.
Whether a builder is trustworthy? That's going to be hard to know. I've built dozens of PC's over the last couple of years and have, last I checked, two reviews.
...I would check prices and ratings of computer service houses in your area as they not only need to assemble but test that everything is compatible and working properly.
I tend to stay a good distance from Craigs' list after experiences I had. You can get someone who "says" they are an expert but a very strong "Caveat Emptor" is in order here.
Yes that is what I meant, every word. And that is exactly why I say to watch out for gaming engines, Unreal in particular. Unreal has made a lot of advancements in a very short time, and Epic has invested a lot of money in this engine.
Ray tracing has only been a bust in the sense that Nvidia has charged so much for these cards. If the prices of RTX were more in line with Pascal, then ray tracing would be seen as a bonus and a sneak peak at technology to come. The entire press narrative would be different. But instead, the prices are making people feel like they are paying a high price for a feature that has little use at this time. It is a simple as that, the price is sole determining factor in the negative launch of RTX. This will change as the tech evolves.
However there is one segment that has been losing their minds over RTX, and that is the creative industry. Octane especially has been pimping RTX like no tomorrow. They are working very hard to bring RTX support to Octane as fast as possible.
Gaming engines are also a lot more flexible than Iray. Iray Optix Prime cannot be reprogrammed by us. We cannot dive into the engine and alter it to meet our needs, or add new features. But you can do this with Unreal. You can tailor Unreal to meet your needs, provided you share that with Epic. Many video game engines have two modes, they have the normal interactive mode for the game itself, and a special cinematic mode for non interactive parts of the games...cut scenes that provide story. You can often spot this in a game if you look. The character models are more crisp, and the backgrounds have more pop. You can do this with the RTX cores as well. A perfect example is a racing game. The game proper has one mode, but when the game shifts to the garage for upgrades and such the engine goes into a cinematic mode and the ray tracing samples increase a lot.
Nvidia even has their own special mode for recent GPUs. Pascal introduced Ansel, which if supported by the game, allows the player to take their own screen shots with super detail. I own Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice, and this game supports Ansel. I can take massive pictures with this mode, even on my old 970 it had Ansel support. Now that I have a 1080ti, I want to go back and see what new options are open. Anyway, I can take 16K images with Ansel on my 970, and even cool 360 degree HDRI style images. I took this image of one of the areas.
It is important o note this 2017 game predates ray tracing, so yeah, it is cheating. This is not a prerendered cut scene, it is part of the game proper. It was made by a very small independent studio on a tiny budget. I point that out because it did not require a Hollywood size budget or studio to create this. I am sure you can nitpick this scene apart if you want to, but do remember this is part of the game itself, so cutbacks were made so that gamers could play on their desktop PCs, like my 970 at the time. It also predates ray tracing for games. Games with ray tracing are coming, and that will dramatically improve lighting.
What I am saying here is that gaming engines can be tuned for your needs. If you want to make a picture instead of a video game, you can turn all the settings up, and enable all the bells and whistles. For that picture above, you could enable higher resolution textures and geometry, and turn ray tracing up.
Right now only one game supports ray tracing, Battlefield V. The game has different settings for RTX. These settings effect what surfaces get reflected. The higher the setting, the more surfaces get reflected. This only how Battlefield V uses RTX, every game can choose to do it differently. Some games might only use it for reflections, others might do more like shadows. And as I said, if you are using the engine for animation or stills, you can choose to dial up all the features like I said.
And this is where gaming engines start to become a valid option. Things might be limited right now, but that will change, and it will change very fast. And tech will change, too. I believe that when Nvidia releases a 7nm GPU it will be much faster at ray tracing, providing even more advancement.
And maybe by that point, Iray might even have RTX support!
And as for that report on netmarketshare, they report web browsing data, and this data is through their specific partners. This might be ok for counting browser use, but I am not at all sold on this being accurate for OS use. Every other metric in the industry has placed Windows 10 past 7 for a long time. I believe the Steam Hardware survey is much better, and more importantly, it covers people who actually use their computer rather than just grandpa browsing obituaries. Steam also has 140+ million active users (people who have signed in the last 90 days.) Steam reports Windows 10 at 64%, and 7 at 28%. These are numbers I can believe.
And it does so poorly in many cases. Some shaders do not convert at all, and you might get just white unmapped surfaces. Most V4 models look like they were wrapped in cellophane if you try to render them straight away, and hair is even worse. While a few things might look ok, you really need to convert most items properly to Iray to use them. And my point is still the same, many people invested a lot of money into lights and add on shaders for 3DL, which are useless in Iray. I would expect this to repeat again if Iray was to ever be replaced with a different render engine.
You have that wrong. Gamers didn't like the prices 2 months ago when the cards launched. Now prices have come down some and most of that angst is over, with exception of the 2080ti. But when Battlefield 5 finally enabled real time raytracing and overall performance went down gamers were ticked off. They're still waiting for an explanation of why a new separate subsystem is tanking performance as badly as it is. That the actual in game effects are no where near the demos and supposed game footage is just salt in the wound. Particularly for those who did spend in excess of $1200 for a 2080ti.