Advice for new computer
retrogradedinversion
Posts: 0
in The Commons
Hi, I'm new to Daz and I have realized that I need a faster computer. My budget is about 2000$ and I need something that works well with rendering in daz. I work work mostly with about 2 characters and a indoor scene of various complexity.
I have harddrives already, looking for good advice on gpu, cpu and ram.
Any reply or link to older threads (I did try to search) is appreciated.
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There are a ton of threads in this forum on the topic. Bascially the best GPU (Nvidia) you can afford, plenty of DDR (32 of more) and a good CPU.
Here is one of many threads on new PC builds https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/290746/new-pc/p1
With regards to Iray, Daz can perform well on an ancient CPU as long as your scene is small enough to stay in the video card. I had a stock 2010 ASUS cm 5571, updated my GPU to a 1070 ti and the PSU to a 620w supply and it was comperable to the render times of a newish PC with the same GPU.
For render times its all about GPU and having the power supply to support it. 6 or more gig of Video RAM is a must, 8 if you can, 11 if you can swing the price. 6 should be good for 2 characters, but I would get atleast 8 so you have more wiggle room for your scenes. 1070, 1070 Ti, 1080, 1080 Ti are prabably your best bet. The NVIDIA 20xx series, while nice, are to expensive for most peoples budget. For what its worth, some people are reporting slightly better render times with a 1070 Ti then a regular 1080.
For memory, I run 32 with my new PC and that is plenty. 16 GIG of ram may be sufficient to be honest, but I moved from 6 gig of DDR3 to 32 gig of DDR4 @ 2666 mhz and I have been happy with my memory. From what i heard from others who have 64 gig, its overkill, 32 is plenty. Daz will run fine on old DDR 2 and 3 PC's so I would not go for expensive ultra high end ram. Something between 2666 mhz and 3200 mhz should be fine depending on what you can afford.
For CPU, unless you plan on large scenes that dump to CPU render mode anything modern is fine, if you want the CPU to actualy help in rendering then you want the best AMD Threadripper you can get. Even then CPU rendering is painfully slow, you are better off getting "Scene Optimizer" from the DAZ store for reducing the size of large scenes so they stay in the video card.
In short, best GPU you can get, 16+ gig ram(Ideal would be 32gig imho), a power supply thats suitable for your PC. In my opinion, a high end CPU is only important if you are playing high end video games.
Thanks!
You don't mention if you're Iray or 3Delight; I'm presuming Iray as you are new. Nvidia cards for Iray; CPU with as many cores as you can afford for 3Delight.
I'd reccommend a Ryzen 7 (preferably) or an i7 minimum; 32GB of RAM minimum, and as many and as good a Nvidia card(s) as you can afford.
Don't compare cuda cores between differrent generations of GPU; get as much ram as you can; 6GB imo is the absolute minimum.
Personally the 20 series cards are expensive (over-priced); but they do perform well it seems for Iray (Studio 4.11 beta is required for 20 series). Get two cards if you can; one to render with, and one for display.
The better your CPU, the more you can do in the multi-tasking line; if your render drops to CPU, then obviously then it is very important. They are stll slower, even if you get a Threadripper or a Xeon or two, but when it wont fit on your card, not matter how much you tweak (time taken tweaking is time lost), then a graphics card is just an expensive paper-weight.
...also while not a hardware recommendation, Octane render has a subscription track (20$/month). so you don't have to plunk down hundreds for the perpetual licence and plugin. One big advantage with Octane is if you plan to eventually create large highly involved scenes as it uses what is called Out Of Core Memory (basically the memory you have on the MB) to augment the GPU. What this means is if the process exceeds the GPU card's memory it then uses your system's physical memory instead of the process totally dropping to the CPU like Iray does.
I always laugh (or cry) at things like ‘6 gb minimum!’ as I sit here with two GTX 970s (3.5 gb)
siiiigh
I know, right? I can feel you, since I had a 970 as my main card until last month.
The minimum spec is all up to how you use it. But with $2000 budget, there are tons of options. Just consider that if you are talking Iray, and I assume so, that the GPU choice is by FAR the most important choice to make. As bk007dragon said, you can totally get away with a weaker CPU as long as the scene remains in GPU. That is not to say you should totally ignore the CPU, but you do not need to go "all out" on a CPU. Any decent recent CPU will do you fine. With Iray, GPU is absolute KING. Get the best you can afford, even if it mean skimping on RAM a bit.
Things to think about:
Do you plan on gaming at all? Then a fast CPU and overall system balance becomes more important. But Iray is not balanced. It is heavily skewed to GPU, I can't stress that enough.
Do you intend on upgrading this for the future?
Your power supply and motherboard are big choices here, as they are key to your upgrade path. I would get a motherboard that is capable of 64GB RAM. Note I said capable, you don't have to start with that. You don't even need to start with 32. If you are really just doing 2 characters and a background, even 32 may be over kill. You could even drop to 16 if budget is getting tight in order to buy a better GPU. You can always add more RAM if you need it later. Just plan out things and build in a way that leaves the options open.
The motherboard also determines your GPU options. I would very much recommend getting a board that can handle multiple GPUs, in case you want to add more down the line. Iray will take anything you throw at it as long as the scene fits in each GPU's VRAM. VRAM does not stack, but CUDA cores do. This also means getting a power supply that can handle multiple GPUs. I bring this up because Iray can get much faster with multiple GPUs, there is no such thing as too much for Iray.
I have the benchmark thread in my sig. This can give you a lot of ideas of what different hardware configs can do.
In my opinion, you can do 2 characters and a background with 6GB VRAM. It depends on what resolution you want to render at. You could even do that with 4GB depending on the scene. But with the budget you have, you can get at least 8GB with a 1080 or greater.
Also keep in mind many prices will increase after January 1 when a 25% tariff goes into effect. Even if you live outside the US you may still be effected as many PC parts are shipped through the US.
Also, this another reason why we need a dedicated hardware discussion forum.
Actually they have 4GB, and before W10 starting stealing lots, it was all used. I have a 970 that now drives my monitors, but it was my rendering card first. That 0.5 isn't directly accessble but still available.
CORES!!!
cant believe is a year already, finished paying off the monitor 2 months ago (is cheaper now
bought this setip
BenQ EX3200R 31.5" Curved Monitor 1080p 144Hz FreeSync Low Blue Light Flicker-Free HDMI
CYBERPOWERPC Gamer Master GMA300 Desktop Gaming PC (AMD Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz, NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti 4GB, 8GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HDD, Win 10
Toshiba X300 4TB Performance Desktop and Gaming Hard Drive 7200 RPM 128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive (HDWE140XZSTA)
and this for online stuff. is like a sidekick lol
HP Notebook Laptop 15.6 HD Vibrant Display Quad Core AMD E2-7110 APU 1.8GHz 4GB RAM 500GB HDD DVD Windows 10
the render buckets in real time
I honestly would never ever get a PC from CyberpowerPC nor IbuyPower. Years ago I was thinking of getting a system from one of those two companies because their prices were really good. Then I saw the reviews and BBB complaints and that was enough to steer me clear away from them! I'm not sure how they are now, but in the past it was very dicey to buy a system build from either of those companies. Some of the individuals they had building the desktop orders at the time were either trying to be comedians or were complete idiots.
Two important issues.
1) Ventilation.Iray especially will take the GPU(s) to thermal max in a long render - and will do the same to a CPU if the scene doesn't fit the GPU memory (memory on multiple GPU cards is independent, not additive; a 4 GB card and a 6 GB card will both be used if the scene fits in 4 GB, only the 6 GB card gets used if the scene is over 4 GB, and the scene will default to CPU if greater than 6 GB). A good case with multiple intake fans (with filters!) and exhaust fans is highly recommended.
2) Backups. Budget for at least one and preferably two external 4 TB USB drives as backup drives. If you get two, alternate between them.
My last 4 systems were from them with no issues whatsoever, great systems and good customer service.
Hi, I suppose you want to render in Iray.
First...a very good PSU, that's one of most important parts of a PC (and usually people consider it as last part and buy cheap ones).
Nvidia 1080Ti (2080Ti is overpriced IMHO...rumors give preview of a TITAN RTX and maybe price will go down little bit if it will arrive on market, but who knows when), 32Gb Ram...cpu I always loved AMD so you can read my signature. And buy a mainboard that give you opportunity to install in the future a second graphic card, maybe...not a cheap one that don't have a good support or components will fail under stress...everything installed in a case that have good vents and give you opportunity to add fans etc for good cooling.
Can you build your own machine? If so, here's a parts list. If you also need a monitor, keyboard and mouse, then consider getting a 2600X (or 2600) and/or a cheaper video card.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Kf9qXP
Personal curiosity: why make busy all the ram slot with 4*8gb memory? IMHO better 2*16gb and keep 2 slot free for maybe add extra ram in the future if necessary. And if is because the mainboard have a limited list of 16gb module compatible maybe is better to look at another model...
I also have dealt more than once with Cyberpower and have had good experiences with both the hardware and the service in building custom systems.
People should be aware that services for manipulating online reviews is a pay industry, and should never take reviews at face value.
In response to the OP, you should try contacting one of the custom computer companies and tell them what you want to do, and what the computer will be used for. Ask questions about what they are recommending, and why it will or won't help. They will help put together a quote with no obligations. If you are still unsure, then come back and post what they are recommending.
...the only reason to populate all four DIMM slots with smaller capacity memory modules would be if the CPU supported four memory channels (which spreads the workload more efficiently over the memory sticks). As the Ryzen 7 series only supports 2 memory channels, you would be fine with 2 x 16 GB leaving you with two open DIMM slots for upgrading later. The only AMD CPUs that support 4 memory channels are the Threadripper series.
When populating DIMM slots on ram, look on your motherboards website and look up the ram it supports. Not all ram chips will work in all configurations. Some mother boards wont work well with 4 8 gig chips while others might not support 16 gig chips from certain manufactures but will support 8.
For ram I would look at your long term goal. If you want 32 to start, but eventualy want more, get 2x16gig. If you get 4x8gig, you might be looking at loosing money long term with that purchase once you make the jump to 64.
For CPU I would go with the most recent generation weather intel or AMD. As others have said, I would not ignore the cpu, but dont break your bank on it. Intel's single core speed advantage makes it slightly better for video games, but AMD is slightly better in just about everything else due to better multithreading. If you plan on using 3dLight for rendering, I think the Razen 7 is then the better choice. In all prabably best to save some money and go with a Razen 7 2700x cpu. The cheepest 2nd gen threadripper will eat almost half your budget, not worth the sacrafices you would have to make.
One thing of note, Razen CPU's rate memory at 2933 mhz, Intel at 2666 mhz. Anything faster is overclocking your RAM. Check you motherboard manufactures website if you want to go faster to see what memory brands have been tested and are known to work with your motherboard. If you buy faster and its not on that list, it might not actualy be going faster than the CPU's spec on that motherboard. The CPU won't benefit much from RAM faster than its spec, but certain programs can benefit from faster ram, example: some games can get an extra 10 -15 frames per second on overclocked RAM.
If Octane rendering is using system memory for extra room for the graphics card then it can prabably benefit from faster RAM as well. Especially since graphics cards are running DDR5 or (if an NVIDIA 20XX series card) DDR6.
Dual/quad channel and overclocked memory as zero impact on Iray rendering, though, especially GPU rendering. It might help with out of core rendering in Octane, but I am not sure if Octane has tested for that. It sounds logical to think it would, but you never know, and the real impact may be pretty small in the end. It might get you a few more frames in a video game, but that is a tiny drop compared to buying a really good video card in the first place. Obviously you don't want bad timings, which is another spec and some motherboards automatically set this to terrible values. Once you exceed your monitor's refresh rate, those extra frames are basically lost. Unless you are hardcore into 4K gaming, a 1080ti or better already maxes out pretty much every resolution. So having overclocked system RAM isn't going to boost performance noticeably much further. Especially if you are still running 1080p, a 1080ti murders everything at that resolution and can run games in the hundreds of frames. So getting an extra 5-10 overclocking RAM isn't doing much.
Your answers only confirm my opinion: it makes no sense to take 4*8gb with the configuration suggested. But as I checked now the mainboard suggested support only few 16gb module in configuration 4*16gb. Need to evaluate everything carefully before making purchases, need to be far-sighted...spare now little bit of money is like throw them in the trash if after you can't make "simple" upgrade (like upgrade ram...as @bk007dragon wrote...). If you check my configuration in signature (built from scratch) I spent not so much more of 2000€ (included a new Windows 10 license and the 1080Ti bought used with 18months warranty)...so under 2000$ is possible (he wrote that already has hard drive).
But this is just my simple opinion
I beg to differ, as my old sytem suports three memory channels and I found that it helps when the render process dumps the the CPU and system memory.
Thats depends entirely on your hardware if you are CPU rendering. A Razen 7 is set up for 2 channels and so it wont matter if you have 2 or 4, where as a Threadripper is set up for 4 channels so is noticebly better off with 4 channels of RAM. Your motherboard may affect this also, as not all BIOS's are equal.
I think this is a moot point though. He would be better off taking the steps to Avoid CPU dumps to begin with then trying to run the CPU dump more efficiently.
1) If he gets a 8 gb or higher graphics card he wont get many, if any at all, CPU dumps with just 2 characters and a scene.
2) The CPU's he would want to manage such a CPU dump is beyond the buget he has and is more expensive than the far cheeper alternatives. 2nd gen threadrippers start at $900, thats about $550 dollers more than a Rayzen 7. For that kind of money he is better off upgrading his GPU choice to a 1080 Ti and buying "scene optimizer" from the DAZ store and not worry about said CPU dump.
3) If once you get past a 1080 Ti's 11gb VRAM and a scene optimizer otimized scene, a CPU dump still happens, the rendering it is gonna take Hours (Possibly Days)Regardless. He will prabably begin render go to bed for 8 hours then come back to see if CPU dump is finished yet or he is going to work while the CPU dump finishes, regardless of weather he is running a 2x16 gb or a 4x8 gb RAM setup.
...well Nvidia just upped the ante with their announcement today of the Titan RTX: 24 GB of GDDR6. Price quotes I've sen vary between 2,500$ - 3,000$ but still les than half the price of the Quadro 6000, Yeah one can build a compete workstation for that price, however for small graphics studios and subscription render houses, this is a big development.
Yeah, the goal would be to avoid CPU rendering at all costs.
It seems someone asks this same question every other day...but does anyone scan the forums before they ask?! I'll wait till I win the lottery. I forgot to buy tickets!
.. ..unless you build your own workstation. Also I don't see how they could really enforce that unless they have "GPU Police" driving around in cities with trucks that detect what grade of GPU people are using.