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Headshop 11 Upgrade

missuskissesmissuskisses Posts: 918
in The Commons

Says you must own Headshop 10. I have this one. Is that 10? I don't see a Headshop 10 in the store.

Thanks.

«1

Comments

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,347

    I bought and use the previous version (different from the one you linked), but it is not listed in my Product Library anymore for some Daz-forsaken reason. If they did not add a grid feature to the facial feature setup, then the upgrade would be useless to me, especially after viewing the promos on the product page.

  • Singular3DSingular3D Posts: 615
    missuskisses said:

    Says you must own Headshop 10. I have this one. Is that 10? I don't see a Headshop 10 in the store.

    Thanks.

    I wondered as well. I really would like to know what the improvements are.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,296
    edited November 2018

    My recomendation is to put a cheap new relese PC+ item in your cart and get FaceGen Artist Pro, a much superior product that does the same thing , discoujnted down to only 5 bucks more.

    Post edited by Cybersox on
  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,347
    Cybersox said:

    My recomendation is to put a cheap new relese PC+ item in your cart and get FaceGen Artist Pro, a much superior product that does the same thing , discoujnted down to only 5 bucks more.

    Thanks, Cybersox! That's why I didn't have HeadShop: I bought FaceGen, which leaves HeadShop in the dust, according to my eyes.

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    Well, hmm. Headshop 10 is one of the only products I ever returned in this store. I hated it. However, it does seem like Abalone has attempted to address many complaints I had. According to the details, the maps created are now 4096 by 4096 and "smoother". I assume by smoother it means they blend better into the existing texture than before. It claims to be able to handle smiles, which if true would be a big advantage over Facegen.

    One thing I find very intriguing is it claims to "detect gender". I'm very curious as to what drives this feature, is it an AI? This could be a sign of real improvement.

    I do love Facegen, and Facegen generally stomps the previous Headshops in almost every way. But while I like FG, it really hasn't changed much in a very long time. It did add G8 support, and a custom texture feature, but the custom texture almost never works as planned for me. The color comes out wack most of the time. Most of FG's other features have been the same for years. And FG still has issues warping the eyeball shape too much in many cases, and often positions the eyes too high. I've also had trouble with FG giving my people fat heads. No matter how near or far the person is from the camera the head winds up being really wide.

    But perhaps Abalone has made some real improvements and genuine changes. It has been like 2 years since Headshop 10. I would willing to give 11 a chance. However if I don't see real improvement I wont hesitate to refund. And as I said, I very rarely do that. So we shall see. I really hope Abalone has pulled it off, because I would love to see a more modern face making software, and competition is always good.
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,345
    edited November 2018

    I have upgraded to 10 from the full version of 9.

    Do I really need to install Headshop 10 first, to be able to install Headshop 11 upgrade?

    I thought, that the serial number is the most important for that purpose.

    Abalone LLC, could you please respond to this thread.

     

    Post edited by Artini on
  • JazzyBearJazzyBear Posts: 805

    It appears the skin still "bakes in" the lightingand some expression limits and mirrors(expected) what it can not see. It seems to do a "better job" than the last version but a lot of editing looks like it is needed to "even out" the skin. 

    Duplicating the pose and lighting looks rather good for a down and dirty program.

    I admit this is not $1K software running ona  $5K machine to do facial capture for movie CGI. It certainly has its place for some workflows. 

    I see this as a really good way to get "random" models(heads/skins) from the internet to give your renders a variety.

    I had used 10 but had to return it since the autodots would not let me edit them on my system for whatever reason we could not get worked out.

  • lwaveslwaves Posts: 238
    missuskisses said:

    Says you must own Headshop 10. I have this one. Is that 10? I don't see a Headshop 10 in the store.

    Thanks.

    There was a thread about Headshop (possibly one mentioning the upcoming release of Headshop 11) a while back and I'm fairly sure that it stated there that Headshop 10 and Headshop Ine Click were separate releases. So no, you wouldn't have Headshop 10. You might want to see if you can dig up that thread and confirm for yourself.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,802
    missuskisses said:

    Says you must own Headshop 10. I have this one. Is that 10? I don't see a Headshop 10 in the store.

    No, that's not Headshop 10. Version 10 is probably not in the store anymore now that 11 is released.

  • marie koutnevermarie koutnever Posts: 46

    If you have facegen, you need not headshop. And the last two updates were not worth their money.

    I´m sorry about to say that.

    Best wishes

    marie

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,595
    Leana said:
    missuskisses said:

    Says you must own Headshop 10. I have this one. Is that 10? I don't see a Headshop 10 in the store.

    No, that's not Headshop 10. Version 10 is probably not in the store anymore now that 11 is released.

    Headshop 10 has not been in the store for months. It was removed when Headshop One click came along. This is why this seems a strange upgrade offer, when you need to to have a product that has not been for sale for some time.

    I do have headshop 10 (the upgrade from 9), but it fails to install for me. I mentioned this to DAZ, but they said the item was no longer in the store and I should contact the PA. In the meantime headshop one click came along, so I did not pursue the non-working upgrade version.

     

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,667

    Am I right in thinking that the Headshop 11 upgrade does not work with Headshop Oneclick? 

  • Prince WaoPrince Wao Posts: 373

    I'm pleased to see this thread as I have FaceGen Artist Pro and I was thinking of buying Headshop as I assumed it would be better! I won't bother now as the consensus here is that the former is the better product. I've actually been disappointed with FaceGen as way too much fine-tuning is required to get the character to look close to the photo, plus as someone else above mentioned, the head always seems too large or fat on the body. But what surprises me about the various Headshop versions' promo images is that some of the faces don't look at all like the photos! I also don't understand why they show a frontal view photo and then a part-profile rendering, or why they use non-matching hair. I want to see a front view rendering of a front view face so the two can be properly compared. Ditto profiles. [Naughty aside: are their promo staff ex-Facadebook? I ask that as Facadebook aka Fastfoodbook aka Fakebook apparently have a brain-storming team whose objective is to come up with the best idea to make the interface that little bit worse than it was previously! The most illogical and/or impractical idea always wins!]. sad

  • mrposermrposer Posts: 1,134

    I really like FaceGen.... can't speak to recent HeadShop as I got off that train a few versions ago .... I'll wait for either the high praise results or more likely the usual complaints and dissappointment from early adapters. 

  • missuskissesmissuskisses Posts: 918

    There's another thread now that talks about install problems. I've had lots of problems with Headshop OneClick such that I abandoned it, and I do have FaceGen Artist Pro already, so looks like I'm skipping Headshop 11!

  • IVSMAIVSMA Posts: 58
    edited November 2018

    I'm pretty sure that abalonellc.com have not even sold HS10 since OneClick was released, at least they don't have it there now, nor are they selling it from their site, don't have ver. 11 there for sale either. There is also no clear info on the upgrade regarding ver. 10 compared to OneClick. It almost seems that OneClick became the replacement for ver. 10 they way they made ver. 10 drop from the market so you'd half expect ver. 11 upgrade to work with OneClick???

    Would be nice if somebody could answer the upgrade question befor the today only 50% off ends!

    Post edited by IVSMA on
  • thistledownsnamethistledownsname Posts: 1,336

    I'm another with the HeadShop OneClick Plugin that wants to know if it qualifies for the Headshop 11 Upgrade.

  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,839
    thistledownsname said:

    I'm another with the HeadShop OneClick Plugin that wants to know if it qualifies for the Headshop 11 Upgrade.

    sorry to throw this off a bit, but does oneclick work decent enough? problems? I was thinking of buying that as I do mostly G3 stuff anyway. 

  • missuskissesmissuskisses Posts: 918
    daveso said:
    thistledownsname said:

    I'm another with the HeadShop OneClick Plugin that wants to know if it qualifies for the Headshop 11 Upgrade.

    sorry to throw this off a bit, but does oneclick work decent enough? problems? I was thinking of buying that as I do mostly G3 stuff anyway. 

    I abadoned using it after some initial errors which I now cannot fully remember. Plus, I did not like that it only generated head textures that did not blend well with the rest of the figure. I would have returned it, but I was over the 30-day mark. 

    Since then, I have been using FaceGen Artist Pro, which has some of its own issues, but was far superior, in my experience, than OneClick.

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,281
    missuskisses said:
    daveso said:
    thistledownsname said:

    I'm another with the HeadShop OneClick Plugin that wants to know if it qualifies for the Headshop 11 Upgrade.

    sorry to throw this off a bit, but does oneclick work decent enough? problems? I was thinking of buying that as I do mostly G3 stuff anyway. 

    I abadoned using it after some initial errors which I now cannot fully remember. Plus, I did not like that it only generated head textures that did not blend well with the rest of the figure. I would have returned it, but I was over the 30-day mark. 

    Since then, I have been using FaceGen Artist Pro, which has some of its own issues, but was far superior, in my experience, than OneClick.

    +1

    I concur that FaceGen is far superior to Headshop One Click. In particular the texture blend much better in FaceGen. IMO FaceGen is well worth the extra cost.

  • info_b3470fa520info_b3470fa520 Posts: 901
    edited November 2018
    Prince Wao said:

    I'm pleased to see this thread as I have FaceGen Artist Pro and I was thinking of buying Headshop as I assumed it would be better! I won't bother now as the consensus here is that the former is the better product. I've actually been disappointed with FaceGen as way too much fine-tuning is required to get the character to look close to the photo, plus as someone else above mentioned, the head always seems too large or fat on the body. But what surprises me about the various Headshop versions' promo images is that some of the faces don't look at all like the photos! I also don't understand why they show a frontal view photo and then a part-profile rendering, or why they use non-matching hair. I want to see a front view rendering of a front view face so the two can be properly compared. Ditto profiles. [Naughty aside: are their promo staff ex-Facadebook? I ask that as Facadebook aka Fastfoodbook aka Fakebook apparently have a brain-storming team whose objective is to come up with the best idea to make the interface that little bit worse than it was previously! The most illogical and/or impractical idea always wins!]. sad

    The reason for the promo to show part-profile (original photo) and frontal (3D head created by HeadShop) is to show how HeadShop can work with 3/4 profiles and rotated heads. Ditto for smiling (orginal photo) and unsmiling (3D head).

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  • missuskissesmissuskisses Posts: 918
    edited November 2018
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    Prince Wao said:

    I'm pleased to see this thread as I have FaceGen Artist Pro and I was thinking of buying Headshop as I assumed it would be better! I won't bother now as the consensus here is that the former is the better product. I've actually been disappointed with FaceGen as way too much fine-tuning is required to get the character to look close to the photo, plus as someone else above mentioned, the head always seems too large or fat on the body. But what surprises me about the various Headshop versions' promo images is that some of the faces don't look at all like the photos! I also don't understand why they show a frontal view photo and then a part-profile rendering, or why they use non-matching hair. I want to see a front view rendering of a front view face so the two can be properly compared. Ditto profiles. [Naughty aside: are their promo staff ex-Facadebook? I ask that as Facadebook aka Fastfoodbook aka Fakebook apparently have a brain-storming team whose objective is to come up with the best idea to make the interface that little bit worse than it was previously! The most illogical and/or impractical idea always wins!]. sad

    The reason for the promo to show part-profile (original photo) and frontal (3D head created by HeadShop) is to show how HeadShop can work with 3/4 profiles and rotated heads. Ditto for smiling (orginal photo) and unsmiling (3D head).

    The promo pictures are helpful. That said, it seems at best an extra morph tool. The texturing still looks off (and it just copies the visible side; Obama has an extra mole in the result). When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles.

    Note that although FaceGen states that it needs a straight frontal shot, sometimes it can handle slightly tilted/rotated heads. Just depends.

    Post edited by missuskisses on
  • davesodaveso Posts: 7,839
    edited November 2018
    missuskisses said:
    daveso said:
    thistledownsname said:

    I'm another with the HeadShop OneClick Plugin that wants to know if it qualifies for the Headshop 11 Upgrade.

    sorry to throw this off a bit, but does oneclick work decent enough? problems? I was thinking of buying that as I do mostly G3 stuff anyway. 

    I abadoned using it after some initial errors which I now cannot fully remember. Plus, I did not like that it only generated head textures that did not blend well with the rest of the figure. I would have returned it, but I was over the 30-day mark. 

    Since then, I have been using FaceGen Artist Pro, which has some of its own issues, but was far superior, in my experience, than OneClick.

    i was intending to use Skin Builder to do the textures. Will it allow that to be done..or to turn off the texturing? I just want the face morph

    oh ..i cannot afford Facegen Pro right now, even at 50-60% off.... 

    Post edited by daveso on
  • info_b3470fa520info_b3470fa520 Posts: 901
    edited November 2018
    missuskisses said:
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    Prince Wao said:

    I'm pleased to see this thread as I have FaceGen Artist Pro and I was thinking of buying Headshop as I assumed it would be better! I won't bother now as the consensus here is that the former is the better product. I've actually been disappointed with FaceGen as way too much fine-tuning is required to get the character to look close to the photo, plus as someone else above mentioned, the head always seems too large or fat on the body. But what surprises me about the various Headshop versions' promo images is that some of the faces don't look at all like the photos! I also don't understand why they show a frontal view photo and then a part-profile rendering, or why they use non-matching hair. I want to see a front view rendering of a front view face so the two can be properly compared. Ditto profiles. [Naughty aside: are their promo staff ex-Facadebook? I ask that as Facadebook aka Fastfoodbook aka Fakebook apparently have a brain-storming team whose objective is to come up with the best idea to make the interface that little bit worse than it was previously! The most illogical and/or impractical idea always wins!]. sad

    The reason for the promo to show part-profile (original photo) and frontal (3D head created by HeadShop) is to show how HeadShop can work with 3/4 profiles and rotated heads. Ditto for smiling (orginal photo) and unsmiling (3D head).

    The promo pictures are helpful. That said, it seems at best an extra morph tool. The texturing still looks off (and it just copies the visible side; Obama has an extra mole in the result). When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles.

    Note that although FaceGen states that it needs a straight frontal shot, sometimes it can handle slightly tilted/rotated heads. Just depends.

    "When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles." 

    The reason we show transition from open-smile picture to closed smile is that we can do it (and FaceGen can not). If you attempt to do this in FaceGen, the teeth texture will end up on the lips and not on the teeth. This is why we show open-smile photo to closed smile 3D head conversion. Obviously the default is open-smile to open-smile.

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    Post edited by info_b3470fa520 on
  • missuskissesmissuskisses Posts: 918
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    missuskisses said:
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    Prince Wao said:

    I'm pleased to see this thread as I have FaceGen Artist Pro and I was thinking of buying Headshop as I assumed it would be better! I won't bother now as the consensus here is that the former is the better product. I've actually been disappointed with FaceGen as way too much fine-tuning is required to get the character to look close to the photo, plus as someone else above mentioned, the head always seems too large or fat on the body. But what surprises me about the various Headshop versions' promo images is that some of the faces don't look at all like the photos! I also don't understand why they show a frontal view photo and then a part-profile rendering, or why they use non-matching hair. I want to see a front view rendering of a front view face so the two can be properly compared. Ditto profiles. [Naughty aside: are their promo staff ex-Facadebook? I ask that as Facadebook aka Fastfoodbook aka Fakebook apparently have a brain-storming team whose objective is to come up with the best idea to make the interface that little bit worse than it was previously! The most illogical and/or impractical idea always wins!]. sad

    The reason for the promo to show part-profile (original photo) and frontal (3D head created by HeadShop) is to show how HeadShop can work with 3/4 profiles and rotated heads. Ditto for smiling (orginal photo) and unsmiling (3D head).

    The promo pictures are helpful. That said, it seems at best an extra morph tool. The texturing still looks off (and it just copies the visible side; Obama has an extra mole in the result). When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles.

    Note that although FaceGen states that it needs a straight frontal shot, sometimes it can handle slightly tilted/rotated heads. Just depends.

    "When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles." 

    The reason we show transition from open-smile picture to closed smile is that we can do it (and FaceGen can not). If you attempt to do this in FaceGen, the teeth texture will end up on the lips and not on the teeth. This is why we show open-smile photo to closed smile 3D head conversion. Obviously the default is open-smile to open-smile.

    OK, so that means the actual result will be an open smile? Would love to see some pictures showing the open smile conversions. Thank you for your responses!

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    missuskisses said:
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    Prince Wao said:

    I'm pleased to see this thread as I have FaceGen Artist Pro and I was thinking of buying Headshop as I assumed it would be better! I won't bother now as the consensus here is that the former is the better product. I've actually been disappointed with FaceGen as way too much fine-tuning is required to get the character to look close to the photo, plus as someone else above mentioned, the head always seems too large or fat on the body. But what surprises me about the various Headshop versions' promo images is that some of the faces don't look at all like the photos! I also don't understand why they show a frontal view photo and then a part-profile rendering, or why they use non-matching hair. I want to see a front view rendering of a front view face so the two can be properly compared. Ditto profiles. [Naughty aside: are their promo staff ex-Facadebook? I ask that as Facadebook aka Fastfoodbook aka Fakebook apparently have a brain-storming team whose objective is to come up with the best idea to make the interface that little bit worse than it was previously! The most illogical and/or impractical idea always wins!]. sad

    The reason for the promo to show part-profile (original photo) and frontal (3D head created by HeadShop) is to show how HeadShop can work with 3/4 profiles and rotated heads. Ditto for smiling (orginal photo) and unsmiling (3D head).

    The promo pictures are helpful. That said, it seems at best an extra morph tool. The texturing still looks off (and it just copies the visible side; Obama has an extra mole in the result). When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles.

    Note that although FaceGen states that it needs a straight frontal shot, sometimes it can handle slightly tilted/rotated heads. Just depends.

    "When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles." 

    The reason we show transition from open-smile picture to closed smile is that we can do it (and FaceGen can not). If you attempt to do this in FaceGen, the teeth texture will end up on the lips and not on the teeth. This is why we show open-smile photo to closed smile 3D head conversion. Obviously the default is open-smile to open-smile.

    Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Of course there's still so much stuff ending up in the texture that we don't want, like those major smile lines, eyelids, hair or lighting in general. Not much you could do about that though, I imagine.

  • info_b3470fa520info_b3470fa520 Posts: 901
    missuskisses said:
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    missuskisses said:
    info_b3470fa520 said:
    Prince Wao said:

    I'm pleased to see this thread as I have FaceGen Artist Pro and I was thinking of buying Headshop as I assumed it would be better! I won't bother now as the consensus here is that the former is the better product. I've actually been disappointed with FaceGen as way too much fine-tuning is required to get the character to look close to the photo, plus as someone else above mentioned, the head always seems too large or fat on the body. But what surprises me about the various Headshop versions' promo images is that some of the faces don't look at all like the photos! I also don't understand why they show a frontal view photo and then a part-profile rendering, or why they use non-matching hair. I want to see a front view rendering of a front view face so the two can be properly compared. Ditto profiles. [Naughty aside: are their promo staff ex-Facadebook? I ask that as Facadebook aka Fastfoodbook aka Fakebook apparently have a brain-storming team whose objective is to come up with the best idea to make the interface that little bit worse than it was previously! The most illogical and/or impractical idea always wins!]. sad

    The reason for the promo to show part-profile (original photo) and frontal (3D head created by HeadShop) is to show how HeadShop can work with 3/4 profiles and rotated heads. Ditto for smiling (orginal photo) and unsmiling (3D head).

    The promo pictures are helpful. That said, it seems at best an extra morph tool. The texturing still looks off (and it just copies the visible side; Obama has an extra mole in the result). When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles.

    Note that although FaceGen states that it needs a straight frontal shot, sometimes it can handle slightly tilted/rotated heads. Just depends.

    "When they said it could handle smiles, I thought we'd see the actual smiles--and that would be awesome, but the results still just show closed-mouth smiles." 

    The reason we show transition from open-smile picture to closed smile is that we can do it (and FaceGen can not). If you attempt to do this in FaceGen, the teeth texture will end up on the lips and not on the teeth. This is why we show open-smile photo to closed smile 3D head conversion. Obviously the default is open-smile to open-smile.

    OK, so that means the actual result will be an open smile? Would love to see some pictures showing the open smile conversions. Thank you for your responses!

  • QuesterQuester Posts: 0

    Here a novice question comparing FG & HS, maybe should be beginners' forum but many experienced watching here so I cheat a little . . .wink
    If you have more than one photo but neither is perfect straight frontal - say one 3/4 or off straight, another close to profile but not perfect planar. Do either of these programs enable use of both photos to get a better result? Or is it just about how close to straight frontal you can get -- where HS seems to claim now it is better?

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    edited November 2018
    JazzyBear said:

    It appears the skin still "bakes in" the lightingand some expression limits and mirrors(expected) what it can not see. It seems to do a "better job" than the last version but a lot of editing looks like it is needed to "even out" the skin. 

    Duplicating the pose and lighting looks rather good for a down and dirty program.

    I admit this is not $1K software running ona  $5K machine to do facial capture for movie CGI. It certainly has its place for some workflows. 

    I see this as a really good way to get "random" models(heads/skins) from the internet to give your renders a variety.

    I had used 10 but had to return it since the autodots would not let me edit them on my system for whatever reason we could not get worked out.

    I think it would be incredibly hard to make the program "smart" enough to determine if a white spot is light reflection or just the color of the skin. It may be possible, as HS11 is capable of figuring out where teeth are, which is in itself quite a feat. It is also impressive that it can mirror parts of the face it cannot see. Actually it is kind of amazing this can work at all. Even with expensive face capture software and equipment artists still have to manually fix things, and when they take scans they do so under a fully controlled environment and lighting. In other words they do everything to make sure the pictures are free of glare, and control expressions, ect. Considering HS11 can do this with a single photo which can be far from perfect is a real feat.

    To get better face textures, the answer is simple, use better pictures. This applies to Facegen as well. If you want the most accurate face possible you need to have photos from controlled environments. While HS11 can do things in less perfect situations, the fact remains that you do want the best photos possible.

    I'm going into this with an open mind. One problem I see is that many posters have "reviewed" HeadShop 11 without even owning it. Maybe Facegen is way better, but if you have not even tried HeadShop 11 you have no right to state that. HeadShop 10 was not very good, and I already stated I returned HS10. That is pretty extreme for me because I almost never return things. But even so I am looking at HS11 with an open mind and will give it a shot. I am doing so because it does look like Abalone has taken criticism to heart and made some changes. You guys probably know I am fairly opinionated, and I will offer my opinion, good or bad, when I get my hands on it and really test it. Like I said, I still like Facegen, but there are times when FG drive me crazy, and the requirement for near perfect pictures to get any decent result is tough sometimes.

    Also, it might be a really good idea to have one HeadShop 11 thread, and direct people to that thread.

    Post edited by outrider42 on
  • IVSMAIVSMA Posts: 58

    The original question of this thread has not been addressed!
    ​Does Headshop Oneclick qualify for Headshop 11 upgrade?
    @    info_b3470fa520 (Abalone LLC) can you please advise on this.

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