Character Realism: Symmetric vs. Asymmetric Morphs
Faber Inc
Posts: 330
Hello Everyone! I start this conversation as I want to get an overall opinion from you guys about this topic (Character Realism: Symmetric vs. Asymmetric Morphs)
Many people from this community and creators, including myself, we strive to achieve realist characters on our products and artworks, and realism is not equal to perfection, in this case, perfect symmetry.
In terms of texture, most of the characters available are quite asymmetric with different details from one side to the other, that makes the skin look different, natural and real.
BUT...when we talk about morphs (especially head morphs) almost every character I've seen so far is perfectly symmetric (Including mine), and despite the differences made on the skin, the overall result/shape is unrealistically perfectly symmetric. And with this, I'm referring to same eyes sizes, straight noses, perfectly aligned teeth, same ears shape, etc...
I'm not saying something new here but for some reason, the 3D people available are still perfectly symmetric.
Would you buy a character that is not perfect in this terms?
Should the asymmetric features be an add-on / optional morph?
Is this something that doesn't work when using multiple morphs on a character?
Is this something that was done before and didn't work?
I'm thinking loud now, but what's your opinion on this topic?
Thanks! 
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Comments
I wo8ld like to see asymmetry as an option, but given the general market expectations it should probably be handled as an option rather than baked into the base shape if that is practical.
I side with Richard. Generally I prefer options, but particularly for this sort of thing.
Symmetry drives me crazy, especially since I like to strive for realism. So I would love realistic, asymmetric morphs/characters. I don't care if symmetry is not an option, because I am always changing characters to give them asymmetry anyway.
I like it as an option also. In real life I rarely even notice asymmetry in a persons features. I know it's there, but I don't usually pick up on it unless it is very obvious so when I create a character in 3D that starts out symmetrical I don't think to purposely add asymmetry.
I would buy a character with asymmetric features in a heartbeat (as long as the character looks good). When it comes to my own attempts at dial spinning characters with more realism, the ones that I've gotten closest to realism with have had a lot of asymmetry.
Personally, from a fellow PA's standpoint - I would have the asymmetric morphs as a separate morph that can be dialled in. I would also set up two character presets - one that's symmetric and one with the asymmetry. Because customers will often forget that they have an option if it's hidden away in the morph dials among a ton of other morphs, or inside one of the character files. Having a quick load character preset with the asymmetric morphs already loaded that shows up in smart content would be really helpful.
On a side note - anyone who's truly after as much realism as possible will most definitely embrace asymmetry. No face or body found in nature us 100% symmetrical. We can notice when things are symmetrical and, no matter how well a character is made otherwise, it will still trigger that part of our brains that tells us it's not quite real. While we still have a long way to go to achieve true realism, we'll have to embrace asymmetry along the way before we can get there. That's just my opinion, of course. :)
Yes, I think would be the best decision too. Even if it requires more work in terms of Jcms and product build.
I cannot agree more on this :D I'm currently working on a character that will have some subtle asymmetrical features but I think I will treat it as a separated option from the symmetrical base shape.
One reason I favor optional asymmetry is JCMs; do the JCMs with a symmetric figure, then have tweaks to pull it.
I would ABSOLUTELY buy a character that isn't perfectly symmetric ;). It would be great if the asymmetry were a morph so one could turn it on and off if needed, but I'd pretty much want it on all the time. People are not perfect, even the beautiful ones, and I think one of the things that still makes CG characters scream 3D is that they're too perfect.
Laurie
My products have included asymmetrical head morphs for years, but I've kept the the custom body shapes symmetrical to reduce issue with clothing. What I haven't seen is more figures, especially male figures with jcms for better bending. So many figures just warp weird in the arms/collars or crunch in the abs/pelvis region that throws off any type of realism you wished to put in an asymmetrical morph. In this marketplace, you're really going to need to find some compromise because it becomes a case of diminishing returns; because although may want to do all types of morphs, jcms and skins and the customers may clamor for it.. right up to the point you have to charge a fair price for the result... that's where you'll find you won't recoup your costs to do all of it. I would just keep your products and options reasonable, knowing that the rigging and current tech we have currently available, we're not quite at that point to do everything you want.. and make it worth a PA's while to do it.. especially when doing males.
My opinion: make the character as you envision he or she to be. If that means assymetrical, then do it. If it's a character people like, they will buy it. Assymetry doesn't mean it can't be beautiful, if that's the goal.
My vote for assymetry as a morph dial, so I can apply it to other characters. OT, I'd really appreciate a pack of independent L-R eye morphs. Somebody made a couple of independent nostril morph dials that I use all the time.
The genesis 2s had some assymetric morphs as part of the Head and Body morphs and I do miss them.
I would love asymmetry as an option.
Assymetrical features as an option/morph would be great. There is one ageingmorph (I think by Zev0) for g3 where you can add asymmetry and it works fine for all sorts of figures and morphs already applied. But it gives only one sort of asymmetry. It would be grat to have detailed morpf sliders, like the eyelid is hanging down only on one side etc the eyes have different hights or sizes etc. ( and please not only g8 but g3 as well
I probably wouldn’t buy a character with strong/ noticeable asymmetrical features unless it was just an optional add on.
So these guys wouldn't appeal?
I'd like me some assymetry absolutely I really do strive for realism in most of my characters.
This^
Any morph option in a genesis figure is welcome in my view.
However I would respectfully Dissagree with this oft repeated notion expressed in the Poser& Daz communities, that perfect
facial or even body symmetry is contributing factor to your Daz /Poser renders looking Fake to lay people outside of the CG/3D world.
IMHO It is usually the transmapped hair
(sorry Daz,but applying gausian blurs to hair in figure product renders is not fooling anyone)
, rubbish eye textures and the absence of that wet thickeness in the lower lids and many other factors IMHO
There have been many scientific studies that would indicate that humans have a natural preference for symmetry in Mate selection.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513899000148
And lets be honest ...the people most successful in modeling and acting are the ones who have the closest to near perfect facial symmetry.
Sure you have the oddball ,fifth wheel" Character actors who can do well in Hollywood with noticebly Assymetric features.
However the "A list" leading men and women of every ethnic group, typically dont have perceptibly apparent facial asymmetry.
When you see laypeople complain about a photo of a fashion Model looking "fake" it is always because her skin looks too "airbrushed" or the whites of the eyes are too white,or faces pulled too tight from cosmetic surgery etc.
I have never heard a single human being, outside of the poser/Daz communities, cite perfect facial symmetry as primary reason for a beautiful/famous person looking "fake".
Except that NO ONE has perfect symmetry. No one ;). And believe me, humans can perceive this, even if it's only very slight. If you want an example, take one of those "famous perfect faces" and pick a side and mirror it on the other side. In almost every case, it looks super weird, no matter how "perfect" the person's face is.
Laurie
Indeed modern image editing programs have enabled us to do all sort of visually unnatural things.. alas human eyesight does not work that way in real life.
One can use Adobe Photoshop to take the head of Marvel's "Thanos" and place it atop the absolute perfection that is the body of Sofia Boutella.
And that will have no bearing whatsoever on how physically attractive, she looks to Men ( like myself and many others) , in real life.
But again Asymmetry as morph option can only enhance the Diversity of the Daz genesis figure platform.
Looks like somebody went nuts with X-Morphs!
I would definately buy imperfect characters: plain-looking ones and even ugly ones. Too many fashion models out there.
On one hand, nice asymmetry.
On the other hand, there aren't many situations where that figure would be useful.
On the gripping hand, it's a Motie! Sold!
Oh, I didn't say anything about how physically attractive (or unattractive) asymmetry is. I was just saying that ALL faces are asymmetrical; some only slightly, some a lot, and that perfect symmetry looks more unnatural than it doesn't. :)
Laurie
Oh thank you! :D That's sweet of you to say!
The light and HDRI from the top one are from a light and HDR product I've been working on for ages. It's finally finished and it's being tested by the Daz folks. So, with luck, it will be released soon. :)
The skin settings are from my product Altern8 Skin Shader System for Genesis 8.
The HDRI from the bottom one (which is the only light source) is an HDRI from HDRIHaven with render settings from the same Altern8 product as the skin settings.
Oh, thank you! :D I appreciate the support!
I would rather have asymmetrical morphs for the base figure as standard so they can be applied to any character.