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I'm starting to love Dforce more and more. Its a learning process to be sure but man, when it works its stellar. My biggest issue at the moment is with the latest Beta. Works just fine on my much older pc but my brand new (rather expensive) laptop that I bought specifically with specs that would optimize iray and Dforce, won't run Dforce at all. It works perfectly in the current version on the laptop but not on the beta. They are supposedly working on it. I am going to be very very unhappy if that isnt addressed. I'm not the only one either. I trust they will figure it out eventually, in the mean time I use the the current version on the laptop for now.
...raises hand on that last statement.
One of the options of dForce is to drape from the current pose, if the clothing doesn't have acceptable bending there will be poke-through in a lot of poses and the clothing will explode, so yes, rigging and JCMs need to be aceptable for dForce clothing.
Dforce is making progresses. In the latest beta, dforce works fine for me, even with figures having "geografted anatomical elements".
Fisty, thanks for giving us insight from someone in a position to know.
+1 Thanks for joining the conversation!
I love dForce. It gives so many options... but some things can only be achieved with morphs built into the clothes. Like morphs for undressing. There's way too few of those offered with dForce clothing here at the DAZ shop, so I bought quite a few clothes at some other shop, where Artists also do nice dForce clothing, but usually add also many more options to them.
Would be nice to see stuff like that here on DAZ too..
I am enjoying having the dforce option. I don’t use it all the time but rather where I can’t achieve the desired effect with rigging/jcm’s etc. My personal thought on it is that it’s a still maturing option.
Deforce is awesome for stills renders I use it all the time for stills . But I find using it in animation is frustrating at best. 99% of the time i'll run out of GPU Memory before the sim animation cycle is completed populating and crash studio before i ever get to render it. and that is with a 980ti 6gig gpu That would be my number 1 complaint using deforce for animation I can't seem to get enough vram.
The second thing i notice. Yes it is true you can use deforce clothing like other rigged clothing( in most cases) except one major huge difference. Deforce clothing don't usually come with morph & bend dial setting like rigged clothing does, which if your trying to use the deforce clothing like regular rigg clothing you won't have the dials (in most cases) to fix poke throughs, have it bend correctly where you need it to etc and some poses it will not conform to deforce clothing if not using deforce. especially if your trying to use the clothing in animation. I guess if you have a really robust system it may handle it . But for now its making my clothing choice rather not buy deforce for those 2 reasons . I just can't get enough GPU ram to use deforce for what I need it for, so I tend to stay away from deforce dresses and stuff that would require morph dials .. Pants and tight fittings tops work okay.
But those are the only 2 issues with deforce i have so far. other wise it works & looks great for me in still renders
This is one of the thing that Puzzles me about Daz's approach to things like this.
Physic simulations: rigid bodies, Fluids & cloth and even splinebased dynamic hair are better suited to brute force CPU calculations IMHO.
I have used the cloth systems of C4D ,Lightwave,Blender, poser ,Daz optitex and the Fluid dynamics of nextlimits realflow & rigid body dynamics of C4D,poser physics and Blender fluids.
I have never had to upgrade my graphics card for any of these tasks.
what , in this good earth ,does my GPU have to do with calculating the collisions of 3D surfaces.. when I am not actually rendering anything yet involving lighting and shadow maps ,caustics reflections ,sss or GI??
and you are not even getting close to realtime viewport feedback editing like VWD.
with other systems we just set up our sim
leave the viewport in wireframe preview mode and let your CPU brute force the frames/collisions until it is done/baked.
Can some person more hardware tech oriented than myself explain the advantage of Daz's GPU based approach to physics simulation??
You don't have to use a GPU for dForce, it runs fine on only CPU. I find on my computer dForce runs faster when using the GPU and lets me use other programs as the CPU is not bogged down running a simulation.
I think we are disccusing using deforce for animation, do you use deforce in animation?
Don't you find it takes like hours & hours to run deforce sim for animation using CPU? . and using it for animation with Iray do you run the simulation for deforce before building the rest of your scene ? how much GPU ram you have ? :)
That is my question.. I have 3 computers.
To me it makes more sense to commit one CPU to a few hours of crunching out a Fluid/Cloth/rigid body simulation with brute force & system RAM with high confidence that I wont deplete a limited resource like VRAM and kill the entire effort.
But alas I am doing animation of 300 -1200 frames per scene shot.
Much more than the mere 15-30 frames needed to drape a skirt for a typical still portrait render.
This cloth sim took about 90 minutes with the CPU Based optitex DCC system That I use with DS 4.8
Thank looks great wolf .. I think I'm just spoiled with the old Opitex dynamic clothing plugin. & I do like the results of deforce But I'm old and I just don't have that kind of time to wait around for days for stuff to create the silly Daz animations I do If. I was doing the epic quality work that you do. with skills using high end software. Then I may feel different about adding upgrades for deforce. But as a hobby animator user, I can't see buy another computer to add cpu to run my deforce simulations, so I'll use deforce for still renders, Its just not worth my time waiting to use it for animation. I guess that is what separate us for the pros and the amateurs.
I love the dForce clothing. I do a lot of promos for products both from DAZ and Rendo. 95% of what I've used works great out of the box- whether you drape it or not. I own most of the other solutions- Optitex, Poser dynamic clothing, the VWD program, you name it. dForce is by far the easiest to use for the clothes it's designed for. Still having trouble with older items, those are hit and miss.
I attempted that a few months ago on G8M and the "poke through" was hilarious. Might have to try again with the beta.
I like dforce and use it whenever I can, but I find myself using mostly standing poses because I can't get the hang of how to make them sit down without the skirt making a mess with poke or exploding. Everything I see here where ppl are sitting down always looks like the dress is tucked under them like a normal human dress would be.
Also can't make them sit on the ground with their legs under them and the skirt flared out like a circle.
Any hints or tips? Thanks so much
If this is the wrong thread, I'm sorry, and Richard will probably move it somewhere.
Sapat, I use the timeline animation, and I start with the character far above the ground or object. I add extra frames (usually at least 60 total) and have the final pose at about 30-35. That gives time for the fabric to settle. Sometimes it helps to put a static dForce modifier on the floor or other object you're draping over. I've successfully draped characters sitting on stools, logs and leaning over tower walls by doing this. You can see examples on my art thread. I just did this with the Rapunzel render. Also check out some of the images in the Promo folder of my DAZ art gallery.
I'm doing all that now, but am not having any success with sitting. I use the timeline with at least 60 frames, and usually pose at 15 or 20 so it has plenty of time to settle. I use a ground plane with at least 50 divisions and set it to static. What I end up with is a mess. Are there any tutorials you know of that deal specifically with the actual steps of how to do sitting poses?
How do you find the gallery here? There isn't any 'Gallery' button that I've ever been able to find. I found the Art Forum, thank you. The Rapunzel hair is awesome!
@sapat - Mine are all linked below in my signature. Here's my gallery: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/users/299490/
Glad you liked Rapunzel! That's the July Gown from OOT (Rendo.) His stuff drapes very well. I included memorized bones in that one because those arm pieces are long and don't drape right without it. Then the timeline starts and she moves forward into the leaning position. The castle was "dForced" with a static modifier. So was the floor beneath her (which I added, that set is actually hollow inside.)
If you're still getting explosions: It could be that the clothing or the pose is intersecting too much, making it explode. I often change the pose slightly so that the arms, hands and feet aren't touching, then drape, then adjust back to the original pose. Also, be sure to turn off any hair before draping. That can create all kinds of issues. I turn off everything that doesn't need to drape or be draped on.
ETA: I think Mada had some good youtube videos on dForce when it first came out. That's where I learned about adjusting the poses.
That's great info, thanks! I had never tried turning off the hair and other things that don't need to drape. I do slightly adjust the arms so they don't cause issues but not the feet. Will have to do that too. I'll look for the Mada video on youtube and see what I can find.
Thanks!!
Hardly, they look fake.
Perhaps PAs could have 2 download files for each dforce clothing product. One with dforce simulation settings included and one without dforce settings and plenty of movement morphs included for skirts etc. People with older computers or unfamiliar with dforce could just use the non-dForce file. I think older users have a pre-conception that dynamic clothes are totally different than rigged clothes.
Uh. What would be the point, mrposer?
A piece of clothing can have lots of morphs and be dForce. There's no particular need to separate them.
And as it is, all the dForce outfits I've looked at seem to come with move and adjustment morphs.
Oh really? Do they? Wow... why don't I notice that?
Ah well, I guess I just have different standards for "fake". Or just different needs for what I want the 3d clothing to be able to do.
It depends on the artist. Pull down morphs can often look weird. The hard part is knowing where, why, and when clothing bends. Many people guestimate, which does tend to look phony. I personally use a mixture between what I can simulate and what I can morph myself to get the desired results.
I'm usually rather looking for "opening/closing" morphs for shirts, jackets, pants etc. on dForce clothing. Eay too often there are wonderful jackets available, that don't allow for using them in an open and a closed (buttoned/zipped) version. Pulling down panties with dForce usually is quite simple and doesn't need an extra morph - it's the other options that are rare, like taking off a pullover/T-shirt...
And as there are very, very, very few clothes that offer these options "looking fake" is my last thought when looking at them. At least until there would be more clothes with such options. Right now, here at the DAZ shop there are... not really many... not one I can think of, in fact...
As the PA who created those Matching Morphs for MFD I too thought it would be great to offer ADD-ON draped morph packages for my dForce products, sadly Daz is not willing to allow for ADD-ONS of that sort and would want any such morphs to be included in the main product package. Creating those draped morphs is a time consuming, mind numbing process that of course I would like to be compensated for :P. Keep an eye out over the next few weeks on Google search as I may just decide to set up an independent site (currently working on) where I can offer not only draped morph packs, texture packs etc. for my Daz store content and last but not least......wonderful sets that for one reason or another are not going to be in my shop here at Daz. Like this one shown here:
Looks great. LOVE that Teddy Bear... who made that one if you know?
Sorry, I know I'm late to respond, but as far as physics go, GPUs are more suited than CPUs. It all has to do with the type of calculations they do. Physics requires a lot of simple calculations involving mass, velocity, time, vector, etc. The faster these can be processed, the better the simulation. CPUs can only process one instruction per core per cycle (or two with hyperthreading), so that's like 24 at most. GPUs have hundreds/thousands of cores (or stream processors or whatever the cardmaker calls them). CPUs are more suited to series processing, where one calculation yields a result, then that result is used for another calculation. CPUs are also good for branching - if this happens, do that. GPUs are better at parallel processing where all cores have access to the same data (in VRAM) and no core needs to wait for a result from another core to do its job. I'm not super tech savy, but that's my interpretation of it.
If you haven't tried the Nvidia Flex demo, it's pretty awesome, liquid, cloth, rigid and soft body physics in real time. https://www.dsogaming.com/news/nvidia-physx-flex-v0-25-sample-demo-available-for-download/ . Here's a video if you don't feel like downloading.
And of course ATI has similar demos and videos using their stream processors. GPUs are definitely the way to go, the problem is that ATI and Nvidia won't agree on a standard. OpenCL works on both brands, but it hasn't been developed as much as CUDA and fewer developers use it.