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pwToon

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  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    Oso3D said:

    Pwtoon is my favorite fast way to do Toon style.

    LineRender9000 and my own Oso Toon are my other favorites; they take a bit more time and effort but get better results.

    Line Render is on my wishlist.

  • MollytabbyMollytabby Posts: 1,163
    tkdrobert said:
    Oso3D said:

    Pwtoon is my favorite fast way to do Toon style.

    LineRender9000 and my own Oso Toon are my other favorites; they take a bit more time and effort but get better results.

    Line Render is on my wishlist.

    Line Render is on my wishlist too :) Oso Toon is also there.

    I think they are like any shader packs, in that you need to experiment to find out what works best for you. I find some of the fabric shader sets quite confusing but I do try and stick with them because I've seen what other people can do with them. 

    For me, a mix of pwToon and and Visual Shaders is working well. I haven't tried the Manga Shaders yet, but I have high hopes for them. 

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085
    edited September 2018

    The problem with PWToon and most similar systems is that they rely on Normals to define an outline.

    But if you have a very shallow or flat surface that’s angled almost perpendicular to the camera, this causes ‘bleed’ of the lines and the surface often fills in.

    LineRender has the option to base drawing lines on an ID, which results in a much more reliable line.

    I used the same idea in Oso Toon, though I used material ID and tricks to get around Iray’s normally realistic lighting system.

     

    The other problem I sometimes run into is getting the line widths of pwtoon right can be finicky.

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    Mollytabby said:
    tkdrobert said:
    Oso3D said:

    Pwtoon is my favorite fast way to do Toon style.

    LineRender9000 and my own Oso Toon are my other favorites; they take a bit more time and effort but get better results.

    Line Render is on my wishlist.

    Line Render is on my wishlist too :) Oso Toon is also there.

    I think they are like any shader packs, in that you need to experiment to find out what works best for you. I find some of the fabric shader sets quite confusing but I do try and stick with them because I've seen what other people can do with them. 

    For me, a mix of pwToon and and Visual Shaders is working well. I haven't tried the Manga Shaders yet, but I have high hopes for them. 

     

    @Mollytabby,How are you combining them?

    Another attempt:

    Batman Crime Ally by tkdrobert

  • AlmightyQUESTAlmightyQUEST Posts: 2,006

    When your opacity was getting set to 30, what preset were you using? I haven't had that issue with the Crescent shaders, and it didn't used to be a problem with the presets that came with the product, BUT... I installed these ages ago and haven't let updates install over the presets because I have been concerned about changes breaking it.

    I am at least reassured that people using it for the first time are still having it work in the latest version of Studio.

    It should have a guide with it (maybe it is online somewhere? Not sure what happened to the product creator or their site) which had some helpful references where you could see the effects of each of the shader settings and several values. That helped me immensely when it came out (that plus talking to the creator and other people who were using it then).

    Lines are still the big weakness though, yeah.

  • MollytabbyMollytabby Posts: 1,163

    @tkdrobert it's early morning here and I've had a render running on my machine overnight (realistic one) which could take several more hours yet. When it's done, I'll try and quickly do something showing how I mix the shaders. I've found that I like the skin settings in Visual Shaders but prefer to use pwToons on the eyes. I've also taking to experimenting with using Visual Shaders on the hair and then applying pwToons shaders on the changed hair. Sometimes you get a good effect, sometimes you don't, lol.

    Also with both sets you can keep the image textures by holding down Command while you click on the item. I think it may be Control on a PC? That can be really useful for clothing and metalwork. 

    I also play around with the line settings in pwToon and change the colours of the shaders in the surface tab.  I find it be quite flexible for certain parts of render, for instance hair.

    I know I'm probably not doing classic comic style but that's not what I really do. With line work, when I get the chance, I'm going to experiment with overlaying a second render with lines only in photoshop and screening out the white. I think the Manga Shaders might be useful for doing this.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    AlmightyQUEST said:

    When your opacity was getting set to 30, what preset were you using? I haven't had that issue with the Crescent shaders, and it didn't used to be a problem with the presets that came with the product, BUT... I installed these ages ago and haven't let updates install over the presets because I have been concerned about changes breaking it.

    I am at least reassured that people using it for the first time are still having it work in the latest version of Studio.

    It should have a guide with it (maybe it is online somewhere? Not sure what happened to the product creator or their site) which had some helpful references where you could see the effects of each of the shader settings and several values. That helped me immensely when it came out (that plus talking to the creator and other people who were using it then).

    Lines are still the big weakness though, yeah.

    It’s doing it with the presets.  I’ve used the cartoon and Stabdard drawing.  

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,039

    If you are doing postwork, May I suggest you go over the lines in the area where there is shadow and make them thicken there. Also any item in the foreground should have a thicker line as well. Just notes from an Inker. :)

  • MollytabbyMollytabby Posts: 1,163
    RKane_1 said:

    If you are doing postwork, May I suggest you go over the lines in the area where there is shadow and make them thicken there. Also any item in the foreground should have a thicker line as well. Just notes from an Inker. :)

    That's really useful, thank you :)

    I have an image rendering at the moment. I've been fiddling and tweaking all day with pwToon and pwCatch. My main weakness is that I've barely got a clue about 3Delight and lighting, lol.

  • MollytabbyMollytabby Posts: 1,163

    I've popped the image on page 24 of the NPR II thread with some details on how I applied the shaders. It's not finished, because I'm still a Daz learner and I have huge gaps in my knowledge but does show how much you can do within Daz with these shaders.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/227541/more-non-photorealisitic-renders-npr-ii#latest

     

     

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    Oso3D said:

    The problem with PWToon and most similar systems is that they rely on Normals to define an outline.

    But if you have a very shallow or flat surface that’s angled almost perpendicular to the camera, this causes ‘bleed’ of the lines and the surface often fills in.

    LineRender has the option to base drawing lines on an ID, which results in a much more reliable line.

    I used the same idea in Oso Toon, though I used material ID and tricks to get around Iray’s normally realistic lighting system.

     

    The other problem I sometimes run into is getting the line widths of pwtoon right can be finicky.

    There is a setting to tweek the outline thinkness.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    An Iray toon thing I really like, too, is Sketchy: https://www.daz3d.com/sketchy-toon-edge-and-art-style-shaders-for-iray

    It has some of the problems I've mentioned (Normal bleed), but has the advantage of being one-render with not a huge amount of work.

     

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    Oso3D said:

    An Iray toon thing I really like, too, is Sketchy: https://www.daz3d.com/sketchy-toon-edge-and-art-style-shaders-for-iray

    It has some of the problems I've mentioned (Normal bleed), but has the advantage of being one-render with not a huge amount of work.

     

    LindRender and Sketchy are both on sale today.  I can't get both, so I'm trying to figure out which one to get.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606

    With pwToon, I like Cres

    Oso3D said:

    The problem with PWToon and most similar systems is that they rely on Normals to define an outline.

    But if you have a very shallow or flat surface that’s angled almost perpendicular to the camera, this causes ‘bleed’ of the lines and the surface often fills in.

    LineRender has the option to base drawing lines on an ID, which results in a much more reliable line.

    I used the same idea in Oso Toon, though I used material ID and tricks to get around Iray’s normally realistic lighting system.

     

    The other problem I sometimes run into is getting the line widths of pwtoon right can be finicky.

    I think that the cel-shading in pwToon looks to harsh, unlike Visual Style Shaders that looks more smooth.  Is that is something I can adjust in the setting? 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    I don't know, I was just playing with stuff and ended up drifting back to my own product. It sounds self serving, but I made it the way it is to solve a lot of issues I had with other stuff. ;)

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    Oso3D said:

    I don't know, I was just playing with stuff and ended up drifting back to my own product. It sounds self serving, but I made it the way it is to solve a lot of issues I had with other stuff. ;)

    I have your product in my wish list as well, I suspet I'll own all of them eventually.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    Heh. At some point I really should brush up on RSL and see if I can code a 3dl comic shader that does what I want. I pushed Oso Toon as far as I could with Iray, but it ends up needing to do critical steps out of engine, and it'd be nice to be able to do it all in one.

     

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    Oso3D said:

    Heh. At some point I really should brush up on RSL and see if I can code a 3dl comic shader that does what I want. I pushed Oso Toon as far as I could with Iray, but it ends up needing to do critical steps out of engine, and it'd be nice to be able to do it all in one.

     

    I think combining Visual Style Shaders with LineRender might be a good fit for me.  VSS can be a pain sometimes though.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729

    I like Visual Style shaders look too. I do have trouble though with the eye materials refusing to get switched from iRay to 3DL material properly when I apply the Visual Style material shader presets. That isn't the case when I switch from iRay to 3DL using the pwToon material shader presets.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    nonesuch00 said:

    I like Visual Style shaders look too. I do have trouble though with the eye materials refusing to get switched from iRay to 3DL material properly when I apply the Visual Style material shader presets. That isn't the case when I switch from iRay to 3DL using the pwToon material shader presets.

    I use a free toon shader for the eyes.  I'd tell you where to get them if I could remember. 

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    tkdrobert said:
    nonesuch00 said:

    I like Visual Style shaders look too. I do have trouble though with the eye materials refusing to get switched from iRay to 3DL material properly when I apply the Visual Style material shader presets. That isn't the case when I switch from iRay to 3DL using the pwToon material shader presets.

    I use a free toon shader for the eyes.  I'd tell you where to get them if I could remember. 

    Oh, I'll get the Visual Style working on them next time I feel like dorking with them thanks though.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,606
    nonesuch00 said:
    tkdrobert said:
    nonesuch00 said:

    I like Visual Style shaders look too. I do have trouble though with the eye materials refusing to get switched from iRay to 3DL material properly when I apply the Visual Style material shader presets. That isn't the case when I switch from iRay to 3DL using the pwToon material shader presets.

    I use a free toon shader for the eyes.  I'd tell you where to get them if I could remember. 

    Oh, I'll get the Visual Style working on them next time I feel like dorking with them thanks though.

    Found them but they only work for G1.  https://sharecg.com/v/81595/gallery/7/Material-and-Shader/Cel-Toon-Eyes-For-Genesis

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    tkdrobert said:
    nonesuch00 said:
    tkdrobert said:
    nonesuch00 said:

    I like Visual Style shaders look too. I do have trouble though with the eye materials refusing to get switched from iRay to 3DL material properly when I apply the Visual Style material shader presets. That isn't the case when I switch from iRay to 3DL using the pwToon material shader presets.

    I use a free toon shader for the eyes.  I'd tell you where to get them if I could remember. 

    Oh, I'll get the Visual Style working on them next time I feel like dorking with them thanks though.

    Found them but they only work for G1.  https://sharecg.com/v/81595/gallery/7/Material-and-Shader/Cel-Toon-Eyes-For-Genesis

    thanks

  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 3,061
    Oso3D said:

    Heh. At some point I really should brush up on RSL and see if I can code a 3dl comic shader that does what I want. I pushed Oso Toon as far as I could with Iray, but it ends up needing to do critical steps out of engine, and it'd be nice to be able to do it all in one.

    "At some point..." should be now. Make it now. If it's half as good as Oso Toon, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat. wink

    -- Walt Sterdan 

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