Geograft Journeys Continue
MelissaGT
Posts: 2,611
Hi there,
I apologize if I shouldn't have made another topic, however I have made significant progress and my issues have moved on to different matters entirely. Also, thank you for the repsonses I have gotten so far - I have learned a lot along the way and I apologize for being something akin to an ankle-biting yipper dog.
ANYWAYS, I have been able to successfully graft (and seamlessly) onto the jawline and apply my character's custom shape. It follows, and emotes nicely. However, now I'm having issues with pixelation along the interior of the graft (pixelated isn't the right word I'm sure, but I can see the borders of the polygons). In order to build the custom topology out in ZBrush, I had to subdivide the graft, and the only way I could figure out how to do that without altering that one outside border of polygons that needs to remain untouched, was to mask and subdivide only part of the mesh (pictures attached). That seemed to work well, and I was able to build in a test version of my topology. However, the graft appears pixelated, even when converted to SubD in DAZ (more pictures attached). I'm not sure how to avoid and/or fix that. I'm assuming it's due to the fact that I subdivided only part of that mesh, but how else do I avoid not altering that outside border of polygons?
If there is no way around this, I suppose I can deal and then clean up in Photoshop...at least I've been able to build in the topology I wasn't able to build with importing morphs. It should be covered up further once I actually build out the rest, but it would be awfully nice to be able to make it perfect (I'm anal like that, lol).
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Comments
There are a lot of edges coming together at those points, and that can really stress the renderer (and possibly the SubD algorithm). If at all possible you would, I think, do better to phase the increased resolution in over a couple of rows of polygons, so that there were fewer edges coming together at each vertex, though I'm not sure how you would do that in ZBrush. Don't forget that your model will be subdivided in DS, so you don't have to go to the full resolution everywhere in the base mesh - as long as you can get the key anchor features in the smoothing will be handled for you (you can test how the model subdivides in DS without having to set it up as a GeoGraft each time, though the raw edges will not look right; Edit>Figure>Geometry>Convert to SubD).
My reasoning for keeping the test graft on the smaller side was that I had planned to do other smaller grafts nearby - one for the jawline, one for the brows, and one each (two total) for the tendrils that are attached to either cheek (and those are going to need rigging, albeit only a couple of bones each). The real estate on the face will be very occupied, lol. Do you think it would be better to use a single graft of the whole face? Blending the subdivision I think would involve a process of mask and subdivide up, and then mask again and subdivide maybe only half as much around it, while still leaving that outside border untouched. It sounds rather tedious but also possible, provided the graft itself is big enough to allow for that. I was just afraid of his mouth, etc. not emoting properly with a single graft that covers his whole face from forehead to chin.
That graft was set up as a SubD piece, if I remember correctly. When I hit GoZ (that was the only way I was able to get anything to work, rather than export/import manually), and imported it as a new model, I checked off the SubD box. I believe what is pictured is SubD level 2 (and it didn't make a lick of difference from SubD level 1). I honestly wish I could have gone higher than that, as the base model I used for that character (Swole HD) is SubD level 3. So what I think you're seeing in the pictures above is a SubD level 3 body/face with a SubD level 2 graft.
Thank you again for your help!
A graft doesn't have to be a single continuous item - so, if it worked, you could leave the mouth in situ and just have a graft arounbd it (same for the eyes, if relevant).
You have to model at base resolution, but then SubD will be applied in DS which will smooth the result out, so you can afford to have a blocky base mesh as long as it smooths to the desired shape (which can be tricky to get right, of course). I can't help feeling that the basic creation wold be easier in a traditional polygon modeller, rather than ZBrush (which would also allow you to preview the SubD in most cases)
Yes, during that test, I did the import and Transfer Utility/Graft process all while at base resolution. After I confirmed the graft was working, I took the resolution back up and noticed that the polygons were still visible on the graft. I have to do the whole thing over again as that was just a test, so perhaps my results will look a bit different next time when I try the whole face (minus the eyes/nose/mouth) and sculpt everything into the graft.
One thing I did notice throughout my testing was that when I tried to make a graft and relied solely on DS's SubD, I lost most of the details (if not all in some cases) during the smoothing process. That's why I ended up on the road above, with subdividing out only part of the mesh in ZBrush and "forcing" it to stay that way when I imported it back into DS. That way, the smoothing didn't smooth away my details...which also left me with those gridlines I'm assuming.
I had thought to try to learn Blender (and had signed up for courses there), however I started to learn ZBrush and fell in love with the entire concept of GoZ. I know that sort of convenience is totally not worth $900, but when I did some browsing around on the forums and whatnot it seemed to be the general consensus was that most of the PA's use ZBrush for their creations...and I'm always one of those people that is an idiot and dives in head first without looking, lol. And now that I'm getting more and more comfortable with ZBrush, Blender's completely different layout and process might throw me for a loop. However, I do totally get that ZBrush appears to be more meant for building models from scratch rather than diddling around with already existing ones, espeically ones that carry "locked" sort of resolution restrictions. $900 is a heck of a lot of money to drop on a program, and I really -really- wish Pixologic would do what Adobe did and move to a subscription model, but it is what it is. I'll spend it if it will do what I want and I use it as much as I use Photoshop. My hope is that down the road, I'd love to build my own models and rig them for my fanart renders. I'm big on Star Wars, and models for the various alien species, as well as the animals, just do not exist beyond Twi'lek females and Ahsoka Tano, lol.
Again, thank you for your help, and I will post my results once I have them!
Yes, you need enough real resolution for the actual places where the mesh needs to change direction, but you don't need to have enough to smooth the changes out. For fine detail there are also displacement (in Iray can work directly on the extra vertices created by SubD, can be arbitrarily fine in 3Delight, though you do have to render to see it of course) and normal maps.
ZBrush is a very powerful tool for sculpting, both for original mesh creation and for morphing, and can also be used for texture creation. However, it isn't he be-all and end-all of tools. For some things a polygon modeller, like Blender, is the more appropriate tool, and I do think getting a smooth transition in mesh density without artefacts may be one of those things (once you had the basic mesh you could then take it into ZBrush for refinement of the shape).
Thanks - I did start to learn some Blender basics, so maybe I can fiddle my way through subdividing out the part of the mesh I need for higher resolution detail and then take it into ZBrush for the actual sculpt.
I have gotten more familiar with displacement and am using those for scar detail, etc.