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From the book "3D Art Essentials" (endorsed by Steve - Director of Marketing, DAZ 3D . . . or so says the back cover of the book), "Animators at Walt Disney Studio wanted to create a kind of animation that . . . let the audience respond to the character and story . . . they developed a set of guidelines for animating . . . These guidelines have become standard for the animation industry . . . (These guidelines) remove the abstract idea of "good animation" and replace it with solid terms to understand and explain why something works for the audience or does not."
I thought they did it to avoid paying animators. And Disney isn't exactly cutting edge anymore, but buy cutting edge after it happens.
This very much depends on the target audience. Most of my renders end up in our games, and I suspect a very small percentage of our players are "Poser/Daz asset aware", ie they would recognise the assets they see in the images. As such I tend not to worry about using a lot of characters, clothes, scenes etc that I buy more or less unmodified.
The thing about having the same objects, sets, and whatnot show up again and again across multiple, unrelated stories... the same thing happens in live-action television and movie productions, too. There are a number of props and pieces of equipment I've seen show up on Star Trek, for instance, that I KNOW I've seen in other, unrelated sci-fi productions, largely because those pieces had already been built and were sitting around in some props rental warehouse. There was actually an establishing shot image in one episode of TNG, seems to me it was supposed to be of some branch location of Starfleet Academy, showing some buildings with whirly-things and blinky-things on the roofs, and I'm pretty sure I saw that exact same set of buildings in an episode of the 1970s Buck Rogers TV show, though it didn't have the moving bits (the whirly-bits and blinky-things) inserted then. It appears to have actually been a painting originally. In fact, at one point I had a copy of that same painting hanging on my wall as a poster back in the late 70s or so. LOL That same starfleet-academy episode of TNG had several pieces of equipment that, for instance, had appeared in one of the Airplane movies and/or Spaceballs, of all places. True, most of the time Star Trek builds its own props and sets, but sometimes they just pull something off the shelf from a props rental place and maybe repaint it a little, or something.
On a different note, there was a 3D comicbook I was looking at online once. One particular point in the story, a couple of characters were in a sort of naughty-room with a rather distinctive looking piece of futuristic furniture in the middle of it... and I suddenly realised I actually had that same set, and LOLed. The particular scene had the characters interrupted in the middle of naughty by an evacuation alarm, so that the one character wound up running for his life down a corridor connecting to that room. It had a really dramatic angle on that corridor, basically with the camera rammed up close to one wall near the end of it so you could really see only the other wall of it, and about half of the door he'd just run out of and that was leading into that other room. Well, I decided to go dig that room set out and compare it with what was in the comic... and was rather amused to discover that the naughty-room was really only HALF a set, and the camera placement in that (seperately-made) hallway was less about dramatic effect and was more because.... if it'd been placed so you could see the whole corridor, you'd have also seen that, with that other room, your view of the walls at the back of that set would have ended about halfway across the doorway! ROFL! I wound up scrouring through the rest of the 3D comic, trying to see if I recognized any of the other sets and locations in it, and how many of THOSE I already had. >>giggles<< Doing that was actually kind of fun. :D
..I have a two drawer file cabinet with notes and drawings as well as a box of old sketchbooks that go back to the late 70s. Much of the work was for a Sci-Fi story I was working on that I eventually shelved because producing a graphic novel on one's own back then was not only an enormous task, but more miss than hit as you had to compete against the established comic book publishers (who at the time were about the only ones publishing GNs back then) with their large print runs and distribution chains. True, there were those incredibly rare exceptions like Elfquest, (which Marvel turned down at first and later picked up only after it became immensely popular), however, for every one of those there were dozens of ideas which never made it to the shelves let alone made any sales.
Now with the advent of 3D CG and software tools for laying out pages and even creating a more "graphic" style, the situation has changed to where a single person can produce what took a team of artists to do over three decades ago. Printing and distribution has become more open with the rise of digital and indie publishing as well as Net sites like Scribd to host your work on. So, I'm very glad I still have that file cabinet as 35 years later, that story finally has a very good chance of "coming to life".
...amusing situation.
I was at my usual hangout one night when someone asked me if I would pose with her father for a picture. it seemed n odd request until I noticed he was wearing the exact same brand and style aloha shirt I had on. Even though I have a fairly large collection of authentic Hawai'ian made aloha shirts (some which date back to the 1950s and 60s) this was the first time something like this ever happened.
...the trouble with "real world" vehicles is Intellectual property rights. OK we have the Limousine Prince (which is a knock off of the old Jaguar Mark II), and the Family Sedan (which is basically a 1955 Chevrolet), but none which are fully accurate models of the actual marques. Not sure how Rendo gets around this with vehicles by say, ADH3D, Digimation, or 3Dclassics. There is also a large number of freebie vehicles (mostly in .MAX, 3ds or .lwo format which require conversion in a modeller), but those usually state for non commercial use only.
Many of the "brand name" props and items I see on sites like Turbosquid have what is known as an "editorial restriction" which only permits news agencies to use the models royalty free or without needing any special permissions/licences. All others are requested to contact the parent company which makes the real life item for permission to use in other works, which could likely mean paying royalties or a licensing fee if the final work involves sales income (similar to an extended licence here or at Rendo for game developers). I ran into this with the Kawai EX concert grand piano model they had, and was very glad Protozoon released a lovely accurate concert grand piano here (which is even rigged).
I'm going to second this x 10
Those renders that you think are so good, those people didn't start out that good! Go take a look at my original thread, or the first post of my latest thread, I have my very first render posted on the first page. Its awful. If you go through my first thread, you can clearly see that I was really not very good and by no means did I measure up to 95% of the renders out there. In Sept. I will have been doing this for 3 years. And I still have a very long way to go to get my art to where I personally, want it to be. But I got from those horrible first renders to where I am now by doing this almost every single day. The only way you will get to where you want to be is if you don't stop trying and don't compare yourself to others. We all learn at a different pace and we all have different amounts of talent (but don't ever let anyone tell you that if you don't have buckets of talent you can't make art, its not true. You will just have to work a little harder for it)
I find your sets to be incredibly useful, the cameras etc., shorten my work flow by quite a bit. And I don't care if anyone knows I'm using your sets, I use them because they are stunning and incredibly well done. Even with the distinctive murals etc, there are a ton of things you can do to change it up, I tend to render things in fairly small places so most of the time I may only end up with a little bit showing. But, even if I render the whole set, how many photos are out there of Time Square or Hong Kong or wherever? We instantly recognize those places no matter what the rest of the subject matter is and it certainly hasn't stopped anyone from continuign to take photos of these place and make beautiful pictures out of them.
Just checked out your Galleries/DA page! I love your lighting/comps, I have been recently looking towards DA/Rendo's photographers for inspiration as they are masters of composition and lighting by default! It's ironic that there are incredibly close parallels to 3d art and photography, or as I like to call them; analog 3d artists/renderers!
I am saying that using very distinctive products take me out of the narrative when reading longer length stuff. Ameliorating this problem requires kit-bashing and re-texturing. I'd never dream of using the new Urban Future without totally erasing (the very well done) murals if I wanted to employ it in a story.
@Mr Clam
Well, that makes more sense, but I think we're now sliding towards two different phenomena here.
1) Parts to a Whole. As a guy who's made a ton of music, I can hear records and recognize the process behind how they were made. In Daz, now, with a much bigger library AND more usage, I can tell what light sets, yep, lights and also recognize poses. I can even tell when Daz assets are being painted over. In my own stuff, music and art, there's come a point where I don't hear 'parts' anymore and I see the 'whole'. We used to call it 'listening with producer ears' where you are basically 'looking for flaws' and ANYTHING you get clued-in on is considered some type of flaw. Flaw, not as in mistake, but as you said- detracts from the experience because you are thinking about the process not the product.
Give a book/comic to someone that has printed a comic and they look AT THE BOOK/COMIC -the outsides, the quality of the paper, the cover texture- EVERYTHING - and almost forget to open it or read it. lol
2) The insider's assumption. Once you know what 3D assets are, no one and nothing is immune from that effect,
@Wolf359 who said "On the issue of clothing I beleive it is well known by now that I no longer buy clothing from DAZ as I model my own custom one offs."
Doesn't really matter. Unless the creative places notices at the start of all their work. lol
Guys, I made all this stuff myself! No really, all of it, no I only use stuff I create!!!!!!!!!!
The assumption will be the clothing, props, sets, animations, ya, ya - are simply things they haven't seen- yet. No way anyone would assume EVERYTHING they haven't seen must be originally crafted, edited, flipped by the creator(s).
Once you see ONE asset you recognize, you then assume ALL assets came from somewhere. Somewhere.
There's so many sources of 3D content. So much stuff that other store and game assets and and......to think YOU are the bar for judging what's original, unique and common or too common is a tough one.
And the artists who tend to be that restrictive about doing it all themselves tend not to have books. They have ideas and opinions.
Overall, it's a wonderful rabbit-hole but out the other end is very little art and lots of strong opinions about HOW art should be made.
The ultimate balance is
a) It exists
b) You've exerted enough control over your art to feel like it's yours.
c) You care enough to want to make 'good art'.
I did a video on this. Funny how so many topics lead back to this idea.
Thnk you!. I have had a huge amount of help and guidance from this community and I freely admit to using a ton of light sets although I do tweak them for my own purposes. And yes, 3d is very much like vrirtual photography so studying the real thing can really help!
@Griffin Avid
I like the "producer's ear" analogy. It fits. In a similar vein, I've often thought that using Daz for visual art is akin to using samples in music: as long as you make it yours, it's all good.
I've often thought that using Daz for visual art is akin to using samples in music
Yes, YES! I spoke about that very thing. That's why you (sorta need to) build a huge library so that you can choose what fits, not just what will do in a pinch.
The reason I combined the two together is- I have seen all these themes repeat themselves OVER and OVER and OVER again, on many sites about different things. It's as if artists fall into these boxes and jump from box to box over the course of their artistic journey. And it's weird becuase they feel their box is the only and most absolute right box to sit in, while they are at that level and almsot forget about any previous box once they leave it....
Right?
That initial stage is loosley "I need the Best Tools"
so you get all the "What's the best lighting, what's the best skin shader, who makes the best characters, what's the most realistic....?"
And then, after growth, the answer becomes "It doesn't matter, YOU need to......" spoken always by advanced users with tons of experience and skillful control over their creative process.
You can't fight it, it's a natural progression to wonder about "The best program for....." "Which is better......"
------------------
And I think somewhere we're getting into Original and Unique versus.....
Writers do this too - and constantly moan about recycled ideas....tropes and...and....
And at some point the target audience becomes a factor.
Is the artist making his work for someone who's seen EVERY product in that genre in the last 25 years?
Maybe, to the expert historian, every idea has been done already and nothing is original (anymore) [c'mon you must have seen that posted somewhere in one of these common debates]
But if I'm 17, have I seen every XYZ from the 1950s till now? Do I know the full history and can pull down every idea from my mental file cabinet?
To someone new and fresh - is almost everything original and NEW (to them).
--------
I digress, but I also want to cushion the idea -so a new user to Daz doesn't think there's some kind of problem with their art/renders UNTIL they jump in that next box of editing everything down to the bone.
Figure models by Daz inc.
Indoor Sets by Stephan Morell
Character animation,VFX &Clothing By FitraMedia Interactive (My company)
.....easy enough.
They did ALL come from "somewhere"
(see the list above)
I dont have to be the "bar" for anything unique.
I only have to create exactly what I want for my Characters
That Doctor I outfit posted earlier
is "inspired" by the
"Dr katheryn Halsey" Character from the HALO video game Lore
Much of my clothing is inspired by Video game Content.
In the end it is the exact clothing I want ..100 percent "unique" or not.
It is not a matter of being restrictive it is a matter of choice
In Arabia they have an old saying:
"The begger and the chooser cannot ride upon the same Camel"
I see what life is like for the beggers in this community in the product suggestion forum every day.
I much prefer to be a Chooser.