Substance Painter Vs. Silo Vs Hexagon
Griffin Avid
Posts: 3,818
So what I did was, start grabbing all these modeled doo-dads. Greebles and Nurnies and and stuff like that.
I have a lot of parts. I want to start making stuff and editing stuff by adding more parts to them....
Where I get stuck is texturing. When I use Texture-jpegs in the Diffuse channel it looks great for mass designs, NOT good for precise work.
Same with Shaders. Shaders are great but they tend to coat things over and I can't get any line work it and smaller details.
AND SO-
I'm looking for something to "painting" or UV (I read up on adding a huge 'coat' to the surface of a 3-D object and painting that instead of directly on your 3-D object) I get it.
So if I want to make some shapes, connect them to other things, like say a chassis or cockpit, what's a great place to start?
I'm reading a few different websites with feedback about the various options.
We are going to skip Maya, 3D Coat, Blender, Lightroom and Zbrush.
Hexagon, we have, but I'm looking at getting something I can use to properly cover the surface of my loose parts.
I want to do precise line work and have some really nice textures covering my objects.
I'd even like to so some rigging and get parts to move, like a gun has an open and close setting- atached to a dial or a ships wings can be rotated - like a morph,
Substance Painter is huge in a conversation below, but peoples keep mentioning Silo as an all-in-one and it costs the same @ $99.00 USD.
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Should I model and Hexagon and paint in Substance painter and export to Daz - maybe even submit the creations as products and/or
Go with Silo and only have to worry about learning one product (mainly)?
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For my art and music, I end up using, about a Dozen different programs- choosing and using each for their strengths and others to fill gaps.
I pretty much figure this is going to go the same way and I'll probably be getting different ones for different tasks.....sucks......
But for now, what about those two directions......to start from?
Hexagon + Substance Painter - Vs - Silo
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Comments
From the Silo page: "Silo is ideal for modeling and UV mapping"
So basically, Silo=Hexagon.
Substance painter's creating actual surface texture work, so it's different beast altogether. Also check out: https://docs.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/SPDOC/UV+Reprojection
"UV Reprojection is an automatic process that happens when you changed the texture resolution or that you import a new mesh." It also has a nice video showing what it does there.
Yeah, Silo is not an all in one. It is a box modeller, very similar (and I find more stable) to Hexagon. You can do UV maps with it, but it does not have any texturing tools. I think Blender is actually the closest to an all in one if you want to do precision modelling and 3D texture painting. 3D Coat and Z brush are better for organic sculpting and 3D painting. But you said you are skipping those. There is also Carrara. It can do modeling and painting.
There is also Carrara. It can do modeling and painting.
Arrgghhhhhh I'm so confused. So Carrara is the true all-in-one?
I just checked and I own that too. I have no idea when I bought it or why.
Everyone's tastes in modeling programs is very different. For example, some people love Blender; personally I hate it because I find the interface and shortcuts unintuitive. However it's free, so it's something you can try with no risk at all and I have seen people do amazing things with it. My personal preference runs toward the Autodesk suite (3ds max, mudbox, softimage even) and their subscriptions are more affordable these days but that's definitely the "deep end of the pool" as it were and not something I'd recommend unless you tried them first.
In the end, you'll probably want to grab as many free trials or student versions as you can to find the one program that fits you best before buying anything. There are SO many options now, and lots of people have very different opinions. The only way to really know is to give them a test drive and see what clicks for you.
For what it's worth, I LOVE Substance Painter. I don't think I use anything else to texture with anymore, except Substance Designer when I need tiling textures (which half the time just get used in Substance Painter). But obviously it's not a modeling program.
So using either Carrara and/or Hexagon, I should be okay building the props and THEN all I need is a texturing heavyweight like- um, back to Substance Painter.....???
I mean, let's say I want to build aship with parts like you created for your Aeridian Landing deck. (I actually bought that for the versatile parts and have no intention of using it as a landing deck)
Hexagon and Carrara can pull that off?
I haven't personally used Hexagon or Carrara, but from what I've seen of Hexagon, I don't see why you couldn't do that. It looks like it's fully capable of mesh creation & editing. Someone with actual experience should be able to confirm that it's easy to use it for hard surface modeling (which is what it sounds like you want to do).
Yes, both Carrara and Hexagon can do that very easily. Their box modelling tools are very similar. Carrara can also make oceans and trees and terrains and a whole host of other stuff. It can model in splines and metaballs as well as polygons. Carrara is 64-bit (Pro edition), while I think Hex may still be 32-bit.
Carrara can also do basic 3d painting, but not to anything like the degree of sophistication you get from Substance Painter.
Both Hexagon and Carrara have suffered neglect from Daz 3d (their publisher), and have been effectively "undeveloped" for quite a few years. Consequently they are lagging behind in terms of modern bells an whistles. Hexagon has been getting some attention of late though, but I don't know how much work it's had/is getting. It's currently free, so you can't complain at the price anyhow!
Both will export to Substance Painter, which I think is the bees knees currently for painting.
Thanks!!!!!! All.
...1,505$ a year for 3DS is not "affordable" for the majority of us here. If I could even afford such software, for the price of a one year subscription I could get a three year subscription to Modo (or for 295$ more, a perpetual licence).
I find 30 days is not always enough time to get a good feel for a new programme unless you have a fair amount of spare of time on hand. Also I've seen some trial versions that often have features I am interested in turned off or severely hamstrung. For a modelling programme, I feel one needs to be a reasonably competent modeller rather than a beginner so he /she can better evaluate the features and tools without struggling with the basics. Programmes like Hexagon, Silo, and Carrara are a good starting point to "cut one's teeth" so to say (Hexagon in particular as it is currently free, easy to learn, is undergoing a major upgrade, and has been brought into the 64 bit world [I am finding it far more stable]).
Actually, Hexagon is now available in a 64bit version; they have also worked in stability, and they're still working on developement, AFASIK
I use Hexagon as it is cheaper than Silo. There is also Blender which is apparently the same price as Hexagon at this moment. Or is it the other way around Hexagon is the same price as Blender right now.
Probably one of the best endorsements I've seen for Hexagon is that DzFire makes all his models with it, and he makes some pretty amazing stuff.
Silo is a very easy to learn modeller. I’ve been using it for all my modelling. You can add textures to it but if you want fine details you really need something like Substance Painter although I’ve not used it myself. Blacksmith3d has good texturing as well but I could never get used to the interface so do my texturing in photoshop.
Yes, I was going to point that out. DzFire is a big user of Hex, and his work is among the very best there is.
I think that one difference that should be noted is that Hexagon doesn't have sculpting tools while Sculptris is all about sculpting. I'm not a modeller but I think that most of DzFire's catalogue is non-organic (mechanical vehicles, robots, etc.) so Hexagon should be fine for that (although I'm amazed that DzFire got so much done between crashes). I would imagine that those who create human characters and morphs would prefer ZBrush while the hobbyists always have Blender which has both conventional box editing and organic sculpting.
But Hex does have rudimentary "sculpting" tools, tho I wouldn't classify them as sculpting in the true modern sense. If anything I'd consider them closer to Poser's morph brush with more control ;).
Laurie
Yep, here is a good tutorial which compares Hex with ZBrush so there are possibilities with the tools available. I don't know Poser's morph brush but I would put Hex closer to Blender's Proportional Edit. Not being a modeller, I am often in two minds whether the Blender sculpt tools or the Prop-Edit would be best for what I need to do.
...this is part of the reason Hexagon pretty much fits my need as I also am interested in creating non-organic models like vehicles, props, aircraft, spaceships and structures.
I do have the free version of Sculptris to play with but that is about it. The one difficulty with digital sculpting is it's similarity to 2D digital painting as it also requires a very deft and steady hand, something I no longer have.
Hexagon has necessary tools for creating props etc. I have done all my instruments with Hexagon. What I would like in it is a better way to work with custom planes/axis, and it doesn't have all the new fancy tools other modelers might have, also I cannot use its UV tools. Although there is free Blender modeler etc, I have continued using Hex after seeing what DzFire has shown it's capable of.
...like DzFIre you also do a fantastic job with it. Have you been working with the new 64 bit beta versions?
Agreed Hexagon doesn't have as complete a tool/function package (yet) like other more expensive (and/or difficult to learn) modelling software does, but for now as I am still pretty much in the early stages, it gives me more than enough to work with. It's UI/setup is so intuitive (from my perspective), that I can focus much more attention on the actual concepts and process of modelling (particularly since it appears most of the instability has been cured) instead of having to also deal with learning the ropes of the software itself. Hopefully part of the full upgrade will also include it's UV tools as I really cannot afford a good standalone UV utility (the free UVMapper doesn't cut it).
I've used Silo for 11 yrs now. It works pretty much the same way as Hexagon does. Both are very similar. I am just getting into Modo and Substance Painter. I don't use the UVMapping system inside Silo. I use UVLayout cause it is so much more powerful.
...yikes, 200$ for the hobbyist version, still too rich on my budget. Going to have to hope Daz beefs up Hexagon's UV tools as part of the update/upgrade
Silo does do a steam monthly thing (whatever they call it). I think it's $25 a month
..well considering I paid over 70$ for Hexagon many many years ago (before it was moved to being a PC product) I feel I am finally beginning to get my money's worth (the original full price was something like 149$ I remember).
LOL, IIRC, the original price I paid, when Eovia released it was something like $349 (Carrara users special discount price). Even at that price. plus the full cost of the various upgrades here as DAZ, I feel I have gotten my moneys worth out of it. Great little program, that works more or less the way I think.
I own both the Steam version and the stand alone version and I highly recommend not bothering with the Steam version. Even though you can sometimes get it cheaper.
I agree. It is well worth the money. They have also been doing updates to it after several yrs of none. I'm trying to get into Modo more but still fall back on Silo when I need to get something done quickly. Silo is a very powerful program and it has a very clean and customizable UI. You can make your own buttons in Photoshop or GIMP and use that instead of the ones that are included, which is what I did. It has common sense keyboard shortcuts as well which are also customizable. There isn't much you can't do in Silo. Do I wish it had some misc features, sure but for an all around modeling app you can't go wrong.
..wow.
Personally, if Daz makes Hexagon an top notch modelling programme with a expanded modelling and UV tools, I would have no issue paying for the upgrade. Other than that I want them to keep it a dedicated modeller instead of going "Swiss Army Knife" like other software has done. Keep the 2-way bridge with Daz. Maybe add a bridge with software like Substance Painter or PS for texture creation and that is all it needs.
Like yourself I feel It works the way I do, and that is a major benefit to the learning curve.
Stability in Hexagon is critical. It was crashy as heck and you had to do all sorts of workarounds to make it run more stably and still it crashed at the worst times. However, the new 64bit beta has been very stable for me. One crash I think since I installed it. I'm starting to actually get back into modeling more seriously now thanks to it. And it's free because it's beta so no reason not to at least give it a go.
..same here. I can even apply 3 - 4 smoothing iterations. whereas if I to go beyond 1 before it was "crash city".