GF2 Characters versus GF3 Characters
bsmcbride_b4dcae9181
Posts: 13
Good day.
I'm sure this is an easy question for most of you. I've been a Poser user for a good while (on the hobby level...not the pro level), but recently, I've elected to get back into DAZ Studio after an absense of several years. I'm very glad that I made that choice.
I also very recently took advantage of the amazing Victoria birthday sale, while at the same time unexpectedly having some $$$ to spend (funny how that worked out) and I picked up some DAZ Studio props, poses, and characters.
Since I was still a bit on the side of needing to budget a bit, but wanting to get as much content as I could, I elected to mix and match between Genesis 2 characters and Genesis 3 characters.
I want to make it clear that I love all the purchases and they are all fantastic.
My first question is this: I picked up the "Rayn" (https://www.daz3d.com/rayn-for-genesis-2-female-s-bundle) and the "Skylar" (https://www.daz3d.com/skyler-for-genesis-2-female-s-bundle) characters for Genesis 2 as they were a bit cheaper than the Genesis 3 versions. They are lovely characters and render beautifully. (Important: Understand that until recently I had zero experience with the Genesis figures.) Now that I look again at the Genesis 3 versions of both of those characters (https://www.daz3d.com/rayn-for-genesis-3-female-s-bundle and (https://www.daz3d.com/skyler-for-genesis-3-female-s-bundle), the product descriptions for them don't describe any difference other than they are for the Genesis 3 figure rather than the Genesis 2 figure. Is there any real difference between them (or anything that would make owning both versions worth it)? Did I make a mistake by getting the Genesis 2 versions rather than the Genesis 3 versions?
Secondary question: Are clothing items compatible between characters for each Genesis versions? (Will clothing for Rayn fit Skylar and vice versa?) Also...is there any upward or downward compatibility betweeen versions of Genesis?
Thanks in advance for your patience with these questions. I did research this some before asking, but there's a lot of outdated and/or conflicting information out there. After digging for a while, I thought I would ask here.
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Comments
The biggest difference between G2 and G3 is that the skins are built on an entirely dfferent UV layout *altogether,* so you *really* have to jump through hoops or use 3rd-party workarounds to move skins from G2 to G3.
It's possible, although not exactly a direct process, to use gen4 and Genesis 1 skins on G2. That's a whole lot of skins. With G3 you've got a smaller selection, but G3 has been pretty widely adopted by developers, so the gap is closing.It's still a big gap, however.
(Oh, and G2 never heard of Iray.)
2nd major difference is that G2 is Triax rigging and G3 is dual quaternion. Triax was proprietary, dual quaternion isn't. Means that the poses don't necessarily work across generations, and it makes using clothing built for a different generation a bit trickier. Specialty bones disappear with autofit.
I love G2 female, and I love G3 female. They each have characters that are gorgeous. In my opinion, they do not look so different as to be a problem mixing some G2 and some G3 characters in a single render, unlike trying to mix an older V4 with a G3, for example. So I think it's absolutely fine to invest in both, knowing you can use the characters you love without making a scene look dated or strange.
As for clothes, I use G2 clothes on G3 all the time. I've never really had any problems autofitting, except with shoes. So if the G2 item is cheaper, then sure, I would get that one as long as they look pretty much alike.
As far as Rayn and Skylar, are concerned, I think both versions are pretty much identical. The biggest difference I see with other characters is that G3 characters can look more real and somewhat more mature than G2s, There are some more realistic G2s but many are more toony and young looking but if you like Rayn and Skylar, that may be just what you are looking for. If you want realism on G2s in IRay get NGS Anagenesis 2. It makes a world of difference! Also there are PA utilities that let you use the UVs of one on another and hair can be shared by parenting to the head instead of auto-fitting. There are also PA utilities that let you convert poses from one to the other. G2 stuff is usually cheaper in sales because it's older. I think expressions are better on G3 though. And if you have a lot of V4 stuff, there are tons of utilities that let you use the skins or poses on later models too, so don't give up on your V4s! (I still like them as they are, and you can IRay them too!)
I deceided to go with G3 and G8.
Opimised for Iray(I doublecheck G3 for iray) and work well together.
One benifit is the deals when new G8 pro pack comes out!
Last time I got new G8 pro back I got the pack, 3 new items and 3 G3 Pro packs for Around 70$ total, thats alot of stuff.
G8 also has Fay and young Lyra from bluejaunte :)
Beside pro packs and some must have now items I buy on 60% or 70% sales.
I beg to differ; the biggest difference is that G3 bends better, and the expressions are better, but tbh, G8 is better again especially in the expressions area.
It is certainly worth considering that it requires one of two products to get textures from prior to G3 on G3 and G8.
Certainly an important consderation is that G3 and G8 can share textures without any work; clothes transfer well; and it is easy to transfer them from one to the other without loosing bones. Takes a few clicks, but it is easy enought.
...I use both (and even Genesis "classic" as I call it as I have a number of 3DU's toon characters for it). I have little trouble fitting older generation clothing (save for footwear) and hair to G3F. however, I do have a couple merchant resources like Wear them All.
For older generation hair, I manually fit and them parent it, that way the weight mapping doesn't close out any morphs. For example I've successfully used Fabiana's Twin Fair hair (originally for V4 which has a lot of controls) with no difficulty and all the morphs, fits, and movements work fine. Collision Detection (via Smoothing) can also be applied without having to autofit as long as the hair is parented to the head I just leave the Smoothing at default and adjust the collision detection as needed.
I also have the G2 - G3 pose converter which works very well. Keep in mind it will save the converted poses in the "Converted" folder under the same name, not the "Poses" one.
One other advantage with G3 besides a bit more realism, the mesh is a bit lighter on the poly scale than G2 and tends to bend a bit better without needing extra utilities like Beautiful Bends to smooth out the rough spots.
I also have Generation x2 with the G3 update which allow me to import in character shapes and custom morphs from older generations (even Gen3 & 4).
I tend to invest more in merchant morph, shape, and skin, resources instead of character shapes (save for ones I feel add something unique to the gene pool like say a toon character or one of 3DU's more realistic kids) and dial spin most of my characters.
This is all excellent information and advice. I truly appreciate folks taking the time to help out and share their knowledge.
I don't feel I wasted my $$$ on the Genesis 2 versions at all, but I did also pick up some of the Genesis 3 only characters from 3DUniverse (different characters of Haley and Amber). I don't see anything from DAZ as a waste regardless of the generation of figure its for. I don't get to splurge very often, but I feel that I did well for the budget I had.
My takeaway so far is: Genesis 2 characters are not a waste. As to be expected, newer versions will be slightly (or even dramatically) improved in textures, geometry, and usability. Items can, for the most part, be shared with a bit of work or small investment in utility software to allow sharing between generations of figured.
Thanks again. I plan to watch this thread to see if there's any more excellent advice or info that others are willing to share.
The fact that Genesis 2 can very easily use V/M4 and Genesis 1 skins with the correct products is a big plus. When G2 "wears" the older skin, it works very well. However, while there are products that allow G3 or G8 to wear older skins, I do not like how they function. They create new material zones, and what these do is copy a portion of skin from another spot to cover this area. On some characters this can lead to bad results, like moles or things looking very obviously copied over from other spots. And because there are all these new zones, making any additional changes to skin settings is kind of a nightmare. On the flip side, when G2 wears V/M4 or G1 skin, it wears them more...naturally. You can play with skin settings and they will work uniformly as expected. Its much easier to work with Genesis 2 in this way.
Why would you want to do this? V4 and M4 have some fantastic skins that really do stand the test of time. Some might need adjustment for Iray, but there are lots of products that address this, like NGS that was mentioned by someone, and others like Iray Smart Converter. I actually like Iray Smart Converter more personally. It suits my style.
It certainly will require a number of products to get going with V/M4 and G1 on G2. But once you have them, you will have access to a massive library of content, much of which has never been replicated in current G3 or G8 forms. For example, do you like Star Trek? There are numerous V4 and M4 replicas of famous Trek characters, most of which have never been remade on newer models. Moreover this content is often sold super cheap on sales (or better yet...free.) The older items always get the biggest discounts, like 90% sometimes. So while it takes a little investment to get started, it can save you a ton of money in the long run.
Another plus is that even after being optimized for Iray, these skins are lighter on system resources than G3 and G8. If you want lots of people in a scene...those old figures can help you!
I strongly advise looking up the thread dedicated to converting different generations of content. It pretty much lists every item that can convert something from one generation to the next, so it can serve as your one stop shop and guide to these processes.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/64403/converting-to-g1-g2-g3-g8/p1
Well, since the original poster says that he has been using Poser for some time and recently returned to Studio, the point regarding gen4 skins still being usable is a valid one. If he's been using Poser, he probably has an ample investment in gen4 figures and skins already, since those are still being used in Poser.
However. If this was a *new* user, the advice concerning the usability of gen4 skins might be a source of unnecessary confusion since Studio no longer ships with any gen4 figures. They could certainly use those skins directly on Genesis 1, yes, and G2 with some minor tweaks. But given that Studio ships with the base figures for G1, G2, G3, and G8, and that most current development is taking place on the near side of the G2/G3 divide, the main reason to invest heavily in the older figures is if there is something that has not been redone in a more recent version, or if one is shopping specifically by price. And sometimes the cheapest product is a bit of false economy, since to use it requires additional products to enable a work-around.
Fortunately you can use pretty much any figure of any generation in Studio with the only real caveat being that Poser weightmapped figures are going to be a disappointment.
One point not raised; it is much easier to use earlier products on G3 and G8, than the reverse.
Poses less so I have personally found; other than G3 and G8, I have found transferring them, even with products, to be less than satisfactory.