Post Processing- An informal survey
VonFunkensteinProductions
Posts: 74
in The Commons
Just out of curiosity...
How much post processing do you do on your renders?
I see many people post renders with no to minimal post processing. Maybe just covering up a stray pixel here or there. Others may go a little heavier and go into color corrections, and some completely transform the render into something completely different through post processing... paint overs, etc.
Where do you lie?
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A lot. Not only special effects, which are typically much much faster in post than doing it during the render, but also layering images in parts so I can modify different aspects of the image. Like a subject on a background, where you post process the distance blur and lay the foreground over it. Makes rendering much much faster, you don't have to worry about rendering monster scenes that overload your GPU, and a bunch other benefits.
+1 to everything Ebergerly said and for pretty much the same reasons.
Let me first be clear. When I say I hate postwork, I don't mean that I hate it when other people modify their pictures with any sort of post proccessing. What I hate is when I have to do more than a quick clean-up and running a filter or three across the image. I hate having to paint things on my images, I hate having to place and layer things on my images, I hate when I have to make multiple renders with different lighting in each one ... I just don't like having to fuss with it after hitting "render." The more I can get done "in camera" the happier I am with my work. Other people are wonderful at postwork, have the patience to do post work, and enjoy postwork. And to that I say "Postwork to your heart's content."
Unfortunately, the look I'm usually trying for (a kind of illustrated that's somewhere between painterly and watercolor) isn't really possible in one pass, though there are a few shader sets out there that come close, both for 3DL and Iray. I have some of the 3DL ones, but haven't invested in the Iray ones because I'll run my image through Fotosketcher a few times, then use GIMP to composite the layers into my final look... though even there, I have trouble hitting what, exactly, I'm looking for consistantly. Primiarily because what works for one image doesn't always work for another.
Even before that, however, I try to get my base render as close to my final image as possible in terms of pose, special effects, poke-thru, etc "In camera". I've broken ever wacom tablet I've owned, and don't have a steady enough hand when using a mouse or my trackball (I don't really have a desk, despite having a desktop, so space is at a premium). I find any sort of precise painting frustrating to the point where yes, I will give up on an image if it ends up requiring "too much" precision postwork. (How much is too much varies depending on the amount, what kind, and my general mood.) Adjusting layers is less frustrating, so I try to keep as much of my postwork to that as possible... and even there, I like to keep it to as little as possible.
None, but more so that I learn to use what DAZ Studio can do and indeciveness about what for postposing should I do outside postprocessing that hides current flaws in state of the art 3D models. I usually prefer to try and hide those flaws in other weighs.
It'd be nice if this forum had a quiz or survey option. (Maybe not, cause I could already imagine the problems and moderation needed)
I think, once we get past the early users and technical concerns, most users are doing post to the amount they need to.
Daz and 3D rendering doesn't have ALL the tools you need (or effective tools) to create/simulate everything.
There's always a chain where using certain tools affects other objects and you don't always want that. Some things need to be faked to look "right".
Simple compositions, probably not much post needed.
Complicated and busy scenes, probably lots.
And you can't always judge pure complexity by the number of objects that are visible in the scene.
Sometimes it's even about the amount of square meters being shown. lol
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So I take all the feedback with a realization that What you choose to render (most) has a huge impact on how much post you'd need to turn your assets into art.
It varies. I always run things through Photoshop before I'm finished with them. Usually give it a hit with levels and unsharp mask, sometimes adjust various colors in the Hue Saturation Value panel or hit it up with some vibrance. Lately most of my illustrations for various projects get an overlay of AlienSkin's SnapArt filter for simulating various analog mediums. (That goes a long way when you are using older content, particularly older animals with their painted-on textures). Occasionally I add some detail work with one or other of Ron's brush sets.
I've hit a string of illos where I had to render them in layers and build a composite in post. Those are a bit annoying, but better than than have the computer tied up for days rendering, and not be able to do anything else.
I usually take an image into Photoshop and add sharpness, possible color adjustment, and any lighting issues. I do add effects to them as well depending on the pack I'm working on.
Pretty much every render has NIK tools applied. Beyond that, it's the very occasional use of fire or smoke or something, or maybe some compositing using distance canvas.
I’m into post processing but that’s because I like lots of color and I tend to find Iray doesn’t render colors especially yellows quite the way I like . I also render on a laptop and like a vintage style which usually involves color and light so I use both, . as far as how much I use it varies. Depending on the image I can use a lot or a little.... I usually only ad it if it compliments a render which most of the time I think it does.
My tastes in everything from art to subject matter aren’t the same as dAz core buyers so I accept my style is different than that of other people.
I prefer not to use any postwork. I get more satisfaction setting up the materials and surfaces to react to the light as they should and doing eveything in 3d more than anything else. I love the idea of unbiased rendering where the lighting is pure, based on math and I don't have to second guess how it will behave and how the shadows will look and react. I read about users doing basic renders and then spending hours or days in photoshop doing the final image, that is not me and not something I want to do. I have a ton of respect for users that are good at this type of post processing, but it's not something i want or a look I go for..
Sure I like to play with filters and effects and diffeent techniques from time to time, but straight rendering is what I prefer.
I'd love it if galleries around the web were set up in 2 sections, post and no post. Sometimes you see an amazing render and wonder how they got a certain effect only to find out they "cheated" and did it in post. I would much rather find a way to do it in 3d and in the renderer instead if possible.
if I see a render with say 50 figures in it and a complex fight scene, I am way more impressed if they found a way to do it all in one render instead of many renders composed together in photoshop and post
These discussion come up a bit and I think it’s helpful to promote what you like without denigrating what others like as being lesser or not of the same value because they use a different technique than what you prefer.
just something to keep in mind. There was a thread recently locked becaus the thread owner didn’t care for postwork in the gallery.
I'm with you. If DS/Iray has the capability to do something, I want to do it that way. Even if it takes me an extra hour or two (or four) at least I'll have learned something by the time I finish. Sometimes I will adjust the colors on the whole image to give it more contrast or adjust gamma. And I admit I should be changing that in Tone Mapping but I get lazy sometimes.
What really irks me is when a newbie asks how to do something in DS/Iray and people tell him "just do it in post, it'll be easier and it'll look better" Whether it looks better is really subjective. Fashion magazines post process their model photos to make them "look better" but they don't look realistic anymore.
For the past few months, I've been trying to figure out how to do a heat vapor type effect in Iray, like for jet engines or hot asphalt in the distance. Sure I could do it in Gimp pretty easily, but I won't. If I can't make Iray do it, it won't be in my images. But I don't have anything against anyone who does post processing. Actually I did a fair amount of it when I only had my GTX 460 and doing a rerender would take 2+ hours.
I like topaz studio and use that the most. I also received a special offer from inky deals and have become interested in overlays.
I own alien skin but I find I have difficulty with the results. Nick collection is also great.
I also really like brushes Ron’s brushes and overlays and layer styles. I use layer styles a lot for small details.
Maybe DAZ will add to DAZ Studio a particle engine to do fog, smoke, clouds, rains, flames, and almost every sort of effect you'd need in a render...
...warning though Unity & those game engines are always tinkering with making their particle engines more effective.
I do have Gimp 2.10.x, Adobe Photoshop Essentials 9, and the Nik Collection but am too indecisive on which filter to use. So far I have liked the cross-hatch filter in Adobe Photoshop Essentials 9 the best even though the cross-hatching doesn't quite coincide with the colors and shading or vary in size like you'd expect.
Let's just say this, a monkey with a box of crayons could do better post-work than I could with a photo program. If I can find a way to do it in DS, I will. I rarely postwork anything, but that's only because I can't photoshop LOL
I've come to prefer post work.
Color correction. Contrast, tonal values. Special effects.
Even with a powerful machine, correcting color and contrast in post is better than trial and error in Iray. It's not perfect color... It's the color I want the image to be.
Realism is overrated and misunderstood. A lot of Daz renders look like Daz renders because of the perfection of the simulation. I think post is the time where artful imperfection happens best.
I think postwork is absolutely mandatory to bring any sort of life and color into a render. The only renders I've seen that interest me that do not have postwork are attempts at photorealism, and even those usually have some sort of work done afterwards (like combining light passes or sharpening).
Of course it's very satisfying if you can make a render you're happy with using no postwork, but it should never be frowned upon.
I really don't consider adjusting tone, color or contrast to really be postwork, so I guess maybe there should be a non technical definition of what "we" consider post. For me when you start to use filters that is when you start to enter post territory.
I don't do much postwork. When I do, it is for various reasons, all mentioned above. Sometimes I add an artistic effect. Other times, I am fixing an issue (poke-through I missed in the preview render, stray pixels, lighting that didn't come out as expected, etc.). A few times, I've used it to add an element I couldn't find (or didn't own) in DAZ, like a drop of water from a faucet.
Depends on the image.
Laurie
Almost 100% of the time and since I render almost everything without a background, I generally do a LOT of post work. I love the fact that I can meld the 2d and the 3d and turn it into something that matches what's in my head in ways I can't do using just one or the other. Some renders I don't do very much but most of them, quite a bit. I don't usually paint over like repaint, although I will paint in more hair if necessary. I do use a lot of layers, textures, filters, adjustments, etc.
Sometimes I need to do postwork, sometimes I don't.
SInce all the work I do I want that comic look I always post process, since it is a lot quicker and easier to run the image through an art program to get the desired result.. Using addons that toonify the scene with shaders takes a long time to do and will not always give the desired result.. Not to forget that some of the products for Daz to do this tend to be overly complicated.. The one I did like the most was Toonycam Pro, but for me at least has some issues working properly in the later version of Studio, since it has not been updated in a long time and does not have specific line settings for Genesis 3 or 8..