P5000 or 1080 TI
themarshal77
Posts: 23
in The Commons
I'm planning on upgrading to a new system but I can't decide what would work best for what I want, I'll be rendering images with up to 7 people in and I was wondering which gpu set up would help me to render larger scenes but also render quicker. I can afford to get a system with either two pny 16GB P5000, or four nvidia gtx 11GB 1080 Ti's. Would 7 figures be too much for the 1080? Or would two P5000's take too long to render images? Any advice would be fantastic
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SLI is not supported in Iray so i would go for 1 big card and use that.
With 7 people 16GB would be more then welcome in my opinion but 11GB should manage too.
Rendertime is also determind by way more factors then just the graphics card.
If i use 1 figure with some normal lighting at high settings on 4k resolution it takes about 3-4 hours on my GTX 1070 I think thats not to bad. I do have had renders that took me 11 hours to complete but it had a close-up with lots of detail. (She is in my portret galery, the dark colored lady) I could have stoped that render at 60% without to much loss.
I can do 6-7 characters on my 1070 but i have to be carefull with hair. This can be a real memory hog. And when memory is insufficient it uses the CPU to render and that takes forever (on my machine).
I would wait.
Nvidia are planning new cards.
Personally, I would always go for more RAM - given I was happy with the rendering times it was likely to give; gpus are useless when not being used because you have to either use the CPU, or take time (and sometimes a lot of it) to get the scene to fit on a card.
A 1080ti is quicker than a P5000, providing they fit in RAM.
Also, Scene Optimizer is your friend when it comes to memory hogs. https://www.daz3d.com/scene-optimizer
I have a 980Ti that also runs the monitor, and I can fit "unreduced" 4 people (haired and clothed) plus "standard" environment into a scene. The fifth figure usually kills my GPU render. My card has 6GB memory, so if you go for the 11GB, I'd think you'd be fine for 7 people. That's just an assumption, though.
Yes.
I use 3 cards, even though my two 1070s are conected with an SLI bridge, and half the time my 1050ti runs out of memory, lol, but yeah, you can totally use more then one card.
Can anyone confirm that pny 16GB P5000 cards are working with DAZ Studio Iray?
I remember reading a forum post where someone invested a lot of money in professional Quadro rendering cards that then ended up not being recognized by DAZ Studio Iray. I do not know if and how that was resolved. Maybe it was just a matter of another Iray for DAZ Studio update... In theory they should work. In practice...
Before you invest in Quadro cards you may want to write a support ticket to DAZ3D asking if they have up to date information if those cards are fully supported.
When you upgrade your cards, I would be more than happy to "dispose" of your current P4000s into my PC :D
LOL
I CPU render with 16GB RAM and more than three and sometimes even just 3 figures is enough to crash DAZ Studio with subD of 3 and fibre hair and sometimes even just a lightweight environmental model. I don't think a 16GB card will handle 7 DAZ models unless they are all poly hair & low subD in the viewport & the render.
Textures are just as important as sub-d. I have rendered 12 characters (all G3/G8) in a scene, plus a fairly complex environment, and it easily fitted on my GTX1080Ti. All were subdivided just once (ie the default), I did however reduce the texture sizes of about half the characters (and their clothing) using the product mentioned by BeeMKay above (https://www.daz3d.com/scene-optimizer) .
There is no reason to have all 7 of your characters at subd-3, unless any are rendered at extreme close up and using HD morphs, anything else and you will not see a difference.
The reason why it crashes at 16GB in CPU mode is that DS adds the entire scene again on top of what is already in your memory. So, if you have an 8GB scene, it will most definitely crash. When you render on GPU, your RAM is just containing the 8GB scene, and the "other " 8GB are shuffelled off to the card's VRAM.
Daz is the company.
AMD cards work in Daz Studio; they don't, however, work for IRAY.
If SWAP is set up correctly, it shouldn't really crash for that reason. Slow and sluggish to some extent, sure, that is always possible for a variety of reasons.
No, I'm actually not confusaing the two and you're wrong. I get 13GB of the 16GB system RAM which for the purposes of a DAZ Studio CPU render is simply space to hold a DAZ scene and render into. That's the same purpose video card RAM serves
No, it's probably crashes on decompressing of compressed images used as textures and it runs out of memory doing that while it is preparing the scene to render. Of my 16GB RAM only 13GB is available, the rest Windows 10 has a tight grip on and once DAZ Studio tries to take it Windows 10 immediate stops DAZ Studio as taking the reserved memory could crash the OS with far worse consequences than it purposely crashing DAZ Studio.
Hi Bee,
I completely agree to the memory usage description. This is what I see on my Win7 pro 64bit system too.
A detailed scene in DAZ plus the system load occupies between 4 and 5 GB of RAM. Everything sent to the render engine and the render engine's process grabs more GBs on top.
A simple scene with low poly evironment and a backdrop or HDRI may be fine with the current available GPU cards. I think, that are most of the scenes we see here around. And in animations nobody would look for missing details of the envronment.
But if you build your own detailed environment for such a scene (see above) I observe the RAM usage running up to 22 to 24GB. So which available GPU card will be able to process this? As long as we are "normal" people with only a small budget for our hobby ...
As already mentioned, keep an eye on texture. Believe it or not, this render nearly maxed out my 1080TI's memory (if I'm reading the numbers correctly), and there are only 2 characters plus some props, a drone, and Mayan Ruins. However, the latter uses instancing, and I deleted parts of it that were out of view. I also used several wound geometry shells, Bloom, and the Cyclops suit for the G3M is HD but I turned HD off because he is barely visible.
Here are the numbers when I render:
Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.4 IRAY rend progr: CUDA device 0 (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): Processing scene...
Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.2 IRAY rend stat : Geometry memory consumption: 591.014 MiB (device 0), 0 B (host)
Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.2 IRAY rend stat : Texture memory consumption: 11.3107 GiB (device 0)
Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.2 IRAY rend stat : Lights memory consumption: 323.615 MiB (device 0)
Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.2 IRAY rend stat : Material measurement memory consumption: 0 B (GPU)
Iray VERBOSE - module:category(IRAY:RENDER): 1.2 IRAY rend stat : Materials memory consumption: 976.078 KiB (GPU)
If that is indeed 11.3107 GB, I don't know why it didn't bounce me to CPU, as the 1080TI only has 11GB VRAM, and it is my only video card so it is used for my monitor as well.
I think, you have to look, where the crash message comes from.
If your system is low on memory, you'll get the windows message "The application has to close". Only a smll popup.
If it is a nVidia iray crash, you are able to save the crash dump to send it to the customer support. Or read it by yourself.
And here I found that nVidia used static variable arrays instead of dynamic ones. The result is an internal memory overflow without catching the exception. So if a certain part of your scene is too detailed for iray, the process crashes while preparing to render. I experienced it a lot and learnt to go without some detailing, although my heart was bleeding.
The newer version of DAZ containes the neat iray version that automatically cuts off some details without giving the user any chance to intervene. You don't get any warning. You only find it in the log file. That's the reason I use Version 4.9.2 parallel to the latest Beta.
Just a note on your pending Threadripper purchase. Threadripper II isn't that far away (August). I mention this because this could help in two ways:
1) The prices of the 1900X Threadrippers may go down when the newer chips are released. Also, you may want to grab a board with the latest bios to support the 2nd gen Threadrippers and latest memory tweaks, should you be considering grabbing a bigger chip later when budget allows.
2) Based on what's been happening with Ryzen 2nd gen, Threadripper II should support faster memory. Ryzen benefits to a point from faster memory modules, the sweet spot being DDR4 3200. You are buying the smaller version of Threadripper, but the refresh (i.e. 2900x) might still have some performance benefits (mainly a frequency bump, along with some feature refinements).
ALSO, if you are planning on using Windows 10, be aware of the 'WDDM Tax' on Nvidia gaming cards. You won't have the entire 11 GB of your video card available to Daz. Previous versions of Windows don't sequester anywhere near the 18% amount away from other apps on the larger cards.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/120541/vram-available-for-rendering-on-windows-10-systems-update-gtx-1080-ti/p1
You'll only have 9 GB available under Windows 10 with the 1080 Ti for Daz. Supposedly the 'Pro' cards have more memory made available (i.e. you don't lose 18%), but I'll let the pro card users that are using Windows 10 share their experience. This may or may not make the P5000 look a bit more compelling.
I have a mobile workstation that uses a P5000 and a desktop with a single 1080ti. I render almost every scene I do on the mobile workstation using the single P5000 because often my scenes will hit 10GB or better and since windows will take up a GB or 2GB on geforce cards that cannot be put into tcc mode it means that I often cannot fit my scenes into it. The P5000 I have every bit of the 16GB at my disposal.
I typically will render 3-4 figures with subD 3 and hi res textures as well as a room without any issue on the P5000. The 1080ti I really don't render on anymore due to this, but the 1080ti is faster of course having more CUDA cores. So for my use case it is the P5000 that wins out.
One thing to note is that because I am using a Dell mobile workstation I use their driver for the P5000. I tried the latest nVidia driver but it was not stable at all due to needing Dell's instead.
That is true, but remember that the amount of RAM Daz Studio needs to render a scene using CPU is not the same as the amount of VRAM needed to render the same scene. The latter will be much less, maybe half as much, but it very much depends on the scene.
3DL will not use AMD or nVidia, however dForce will use an AMD card that supports OpenCL
How much virtual RAM do you have set up? In theory this should stop it from running out of memory, but the render will run much slower if it is continously swapping between main memory and virtual memory.