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Because it's been observed repeatedly in many markets and when reviews are even remotely useful it's only after the stores in question expend considerable effort combating fake/spoof/unfair reviews.
Why assume people with history and a professional interest in these issues are out to slam and be mean to customers? We're all customers, TOO.
There's far too many threads that are opened on this forum where people neglect to read the "what's included" portion of a product page, and start threads based that to say it's totally the fault of a product's marketing.
Well then, that's why you do something about it. Obviously you're saying it's a problem. Part of the marketing is explaining what a product is - I don't see how the two are unrelated.
if it's not reaching the customers, what do you do- chide the customers or edit the layout to make it clearer to the customers.
A survey is a small sampling of a larger population. You ask a few to get the bead on many.
That's not true. There are plenty of fake reviews on Amazon and plenty of fake businesses on Amazon too as I've written Amazon multiple times to take down fake businesses only to have those complaints ignored by Amazon as Amazon ignored me. Maybe because I was one of these 'fake disgruntled reviewers' in the eyes of Amazon? Well guess what people, no I'm not, you can't grow blue roses or rainbow roses from seed and plenty of other fake product listings by fake business on Amazon.
Besides that, what safe homes, cars, or quality and good quality products of any sort arise with absolutely no effort or no review cycle into the short comings of those products?
That is a bit generous. Quality I guess is in the eye of the beholder, but I think it should be... "If its in the store than we think it will sell." I honestly don't think quality is a huge consideration as its universally accepted that content here in the store can really vary in quality depending on who makes it.
I see a lot of fear and speculation on the impact of critical reviews, however, I honestly prefer them. I almost never read positive reviews, but go to review sites and sort by critical reviews. These tend to tell me the most info and what I need to know to make a buying decision. I can usually weed out the vindictive mean and spiteful reviews from those which actually provide constructive experience. It is a disservice to buyers to assume we can't be discerning.
If a product is updated, and the review is no longer relevant than it should be removed. But what if a product is never updated? The review remains relevant and the constructive crit is legit for that person's experience At the time of purchasing.
What exactly should be done about customers that failed to read the product description? The information **is** there. Did you understand what I wrote?
I try to use items soon after I buy them to see if they live up to my expectations. If they don't, Daz's return policy is great (as others have noted). It's just a matter of making sure I try them out.
Reviews won't work to anyone's favor. Reviews are too subjective. What I find terrific, someone else will find awful. I might be scared off from an item that really was what I needed. Further, people will support PAs they like, and neg ones they don't. Meanwhile, PAs will be faced with demoralizing criticism of their work, which can make them quit designing all together. Chasing designers away doesn't benefit anyone.
More info up front would be wonderful, but given that DAZ can't even be bothered to write comprehensive documentation for their own software and that the documents section of the site is filled with missing pages and ridiculously out of date information, I think we're lucky to get what we do. Also, keep in mind that all that additional information comes with a cost and at some point those additional expenses will have to get rolled back into the cost of the product. And guess who gets to pay for that, ultimately? In the end, this really isn't a very big market, and while there are products obviously sell extremely well, there are also a lot of items where sales are numbered in the triple, and even double, digits. Adding requirements for more extensive documentation would only subtract from those PA's hair-thin profit margins.
Did you understand what I wrote?
Today's product. First one that showed up in the Store's Main Page.
It's called this: Party Monster Outfit for Genesis 8 Female(s)
https://www.daz3d.com/party-monster-outfit-for-genesis-8-females
Here's the product spiel:
Details
The perfect outfit for your inner Party Monster!!
An 8 piece clothing set comprising of a Top, Tube Top, Tutu, Panty, Suspenders, Leggings, Boots and Leg Fluffies.
With 9 vibrant and fun mix and match base colours plus a range of emissive options to really light up the room!
Do you see how that explains WHAT IT IS without reading the What's included and Features?
Do you see that THIS PRODUCT has a huge What's Included and Features list that is very full and mentions everything?
That is not every product in the store. To partially quote you:
"There's far too many threads that are opened on this forum where people..." [me] can't find the information about a product that they are interested in and have to turn to their fellow-buyers to clue them in.....
1 week from today, when this product is no longer sitting next to its friends, someone will be wondering if all those bangles and bracelets come with the outfit. They can either scan up and down that huge list and start a thread after, or see the VERY CLEAR details section. That is the added info I was talking about and what Daz and the PA can do to improve the marketing and listing of their products.
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I shouldn't have had to type all that since you quoted my answer in your question.
Part of the marketing is explaining what a product is - I don't see how the two are unrelated.
if it's not reaching the customers, what do you do- chide the customers or edit the layout to make it clearer to the customers.
That product is an example of doing it better. I hope this was more clear.
This is not entirely true. Amazon does have a QnA section for items in their store. The QnA section is specifically intended for prospective buyers who can seek advice from vendors and existing users of a product. This is far more focussed and convenient alternative than starting a forum thread for each query; which obviously does not scale when there are thousands of products in the store and one find themselves at the mercy of a search engine to get the relevant info. This QnA in Amazon is further enhanced through a user voting system where most relevant and helpful questions are automatically placed above others.
I actually find the product QA on the product page of Amazon to be helpful. Its nice that users can ask questions and receive answers from other buyers. I've gotten a lot of info from those responses.
They do links to forums that mention the item. I look to see if there is a commercial thread or other product discussion thread.
DAZ and Rendo both give you access to the readme file ahead of purchase. If you want to find out if doors or windows open, the information in the file list there will give you some good clues. It will also tell you which props are separate.
+1
Same here. I have several products from amazon I only purchased because I was able get the info I needed from product QA. I've also provided answers to questions there myself.
6 items giving an average of 4 reviews; not worth reading imo; on such small numbers can't make a realistic evaluation. I like 100 plus reviews; 100 is a minimum. They are worth considering then.
+1
I submit reviews there as well, but I have to say that I DON'T trust any of the reviews on Amazon as they've become infamous for lumping the reviews of multiple products together whenever there's the slightest hint of a connection. I've seen reviews for DVDs ad BluRays that reference not just different release versions... .which can have different runtimes, extras and encoding quality... but often bootleg copies and even entirely different films that happen to have the same title... one I just caught today is that they've merged reviews for a legally licensed BluRay of one film with a really bad bootleg DVD of the same title resulting in a terrible rating on a film that would have a top score if the only reviews had been for the legal product. LIkewise, reviews of external hardrives often mix the write ups for different models and drives with radically ranging storage capacities, to the point where the information presented is practically useless. And all of this is without even considering the fact that most of the people doing reviews on Amazon have little to accurately compare their purchase to, and generally post their reviews within a few days of buying them. As a result, price usually becomes the dominant factor, not overall technical quality and performance.
Perhaps the best way to look at user poseted reviews is to use WIkipedia as an analog. I'm fine with using it as one of several resources, but I sure as hell wouldn't want someone to be performing surgery on me using nothing but a wiki as a guide.
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Well my point was just that people do not mostly make a review when they have something negative to say, as claimed.
Yes, I've noticed that and that is very confusing, not to say misleading. But that's where product QA may help, here you can ask other customers for info about a specific product.
I’m not in favor of reviews however if someone returns a product and has a valid reason to do so in their view as a PA I’d like to know what the reason is.
Something like “This product sucks” obviously serves no purpose but something like “The promos were misleading” or “Such and such was not mentioned in What’s included” etc is useful info for us. We all try to do our best and this info would help us get better
It WOULD be really helpful if we could be given a short explination as to why the item was returned. Or at least give the customer the option of adding the reason for the return and that gets sent to the PA. That would be hugely helpful I think. If multiple people are returning it for the same reason that kind of info being passed on to the PA is a win for both the PA and the customer. The PA could learn from it and not do said thing next time (or consider it at least) and the customers would hopefully get a better product next time.
I can only agree to this, as I've seen several items, which show quite obvous design errors, which - for me - make them no-buys. I won't give details, so the ban hammer won't fall on me, but there are
And to all those "review critics" the question:
Is it better when every new product will be gushed over in the forum, even sometimes before it is released or by people who either haven't bought or used it? Any critical post, stating an design error, bug or flaw usually goes down among dozens of "cute!", "I need that!!!!!", "adors..." etc. etc. which are about as un-helpful as negative posts.
At rendo the reviews can only be done by people who really bought something. And although there usually aren't too many reviews, they have been very helpful to me - and probably others - sometimes. And sometimes might even make people buy something, that they wouldn't have bought otherwise, as in the cases of Poser stuff that hasn't been tested with DS by the PA, but proves to be working and having that stated in a review.
I think that some of the concerns about reviews expressed here are not really justified. In my experience at "the other store", reviews are generally positive, not an excuse for grumpy buyers to sound off. Also, the product descriptions here are often short on detail so I find myself going to the forum to find out what I need to know. I don't make a habit of returning products but when I do it is usually because of something I expected was not included or catered for. This includes sets with fixed walls which can't be made invisible without delving into the geometry editor. Or clothes that only fit the base figure and look awful on morphed characters.
Reviews are an opportunity to highlight these issues but it seems that the business model here is Buy & Try rather than providing all the details that people need to make a choice. Not that I'm complaining about the Buy & Try part - the return policy is very fair - but sometimes a better product description would make deciding easier and avoid some of the returns. Also, some buyers might feel uncomfrotable returning products - I always feel like I'm having to make excuses for returning something as though I might be thought of as trying to take advantage of the system.
Maldrecker, that’s a good example.
If you look up zipped woman’s leather boots, they may be zipped on either side, the front, the back...
So a negative review for ‘it’s zipped on the outside’ would be really confusing.
No offence but that's just silly. I've seen boots with the zipper on the outside, on the back, on the front, on the sides and wraps around to the back, etc etc. There are so many different types of boots and fashion design choices for the placement of zippers that saying that if a zipper is on the outside it's both wrong AND a reason not to buy the boots... what? lol That's, again, really silly, imo.
Your post is a prime example why reviews are just a bad idea. A completely valid design choice is not Wrong and isn't a good reason to expect people to Not Buy a product.
Shudder- regarding this suggestion of generating an automatic commercial thread by Daz- NO! I can see that getting messed up in a heartbeat. One already exists, but one is generated.... Daz can't even do sales correctly, I sure wouldn't trust them to generate pages ONLY IF one didn't exist already.
And the idea of gettng that many reviews for a product here at DAZ is extremely unlikely, to say the least. Most products on Amazon have less reviews than that, even products that vastly outsell anything sold here at DAZ, and Amazon aggressively nags for reviews, sending e-mails requesting feedback for months after the purchase.
There was actually an interesting post over on Amazon Seller Central a while back asking about the corellation of reviews to number of purchases, where the person asking for the information had a medical device that was selling multiple units a day yet had only aquired 3 reviews in all that time. You can read through the thread here https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/number-of-reviews-as-a-correlate-to-number-of-sales/329779 but the general response from both Amazon and other posters was that a vendor would be doing good to have a purchase to review rate of 0.5 to 1% (one review for every 100-200 copies of an item sold) but other vendors posted review rates that were even lower. From what I understand, selling a thousand units of anything here at DAZ is considered to be doing quite well, so it would be unreasonable to expect the majority of products sold here at DAZ to get more than 10-20 reviews over their entire lifetime in the store.
One other little side note about reviews and their value. Don't forget that an evaluation for a product made at one point in time may no longer be accurate several years later. Case in point,there were a number of products made for DAZ Studio 3 that would have almost certainly accrued good reviews back when they were released, but which no longer work properly or at all with DS4. Likewise, there have been more recent products that have been at least partially broken by various updates to DS4 itself. As a result, this would mean that an older review that failed to acknowlege the existence of these problems that didn't exist at that time could actually be giving the reader counterproductive information.... even if it's something as simple as saying that a product works well in DS but without clarifying that by DS it means 3Delight and not the newer Iray.
I think the idea that reviews shouldn’t be allowed because they might contain inaccurate information could be addressed by moderation or a voting system. (Is this review helpful) . It really isn’t a reason to tank the idea altogether. They could just as likely be factual.
Products are allowed in the store with errors that never get fixed. Seems like both pas and buyers can and do make mistakes.. such is life.
I always tell support why I return items.