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Others do though. I find reviews helpful in making buying decisions. It’s pretty standard practice nowadays. Not all pas do commercial threads so having input about a product in one place and not have to dig for it is helpful. For those who don’t want to see review they should be hideable.
But like I said I doubt it will be implemented. So no need to worry about it.
LOL, DAZ better not ever implement a product review mechanism that tracks totals number of times a product was sold, how many unique customers bought the product, and how many times the product was actually used in a scene by the number of unique customers that used the product in a scene.
OK. I hope that "wayback machine" is more reliable than the store. It's very rare that I return stuff anyway, so no big problem to me.
If you do a fair amount of shopping here, you really should have a Platinum Club membership. Wait for those to go on sale though. 30% off PC+ memberships happen every few weeks, sometimes more (50% off used to be more common, not so much these days)..
That 30% off Daz Originals really adds up, and the coupons also help offset your costs a bit more.
I've yet to NOT use the $6 off $18 or $6 off coupon in a given month, but of course there are limits on those.
Not sure what the 'break point' would be to break even on a Plat Club membership for any particular buyer, as there are a lot of variables in that, but the last time I renewed Plat Club (back in March), yeah it paid for itself that month. Everything I've gotten the PC+ discount on since then has been 'gravy'.
The PC+ freebies are hit and miss, but I usually end up with a few freebies that I actually put to use at some pont. Admittedly, most of those end up gathering dust in some forgotten corner of my Daz install though.
Like that Bus Stop thing that Daz keeps trying to pawn off on us as a freebie every month - I've yet to use that one... Daz really wants us to embrace that mass transit. I'm thinking there hasn't been a month that it wasn't included in the PC+ freebies, ever since I joined Plat Club 15 months ago.,
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Anyways, back on topic, I've found that there isn't really much of a correlation between price and quality r.e. products released here. Price is to some extent set by the PA's, and some PA's command higher prices than others. While there may be a 'general trend' to higher prices for higher quality, yeah some pricier stuff I've bought isn't as useful as some of the more reasonably priced items. I'm talking things like adjustment morphs, additional texture sets, etc.
You are better off with the 'This PA makes really good stuff, this other PA not so much' strategy. Unfortunately, the only way you can judge that is if you already have some products from the PA in question, or if there's a lot of feedback on this forum r.e. the product you are considering.
So, I've adopted the strategy of analyzing how useful an item may be to me first, then looking at the price to see if it's in my comfort zone or not.
The thing that still amazes me is that there are products here that are over a decade old that are still priced at what I'd consider 'top dollar'. Aiko 3 is OLD NEWS people! Most of us have moved on, and there are better, more recent options!
As someone who kit-bashes, most problems can be sorted out in a few minutes if you export to a 3d package, so personally I've never had a need to return a product. What I find really useful though is to see the gallery images where people have used the product. That often gives me a good idea of the potential of a product. (that's where you can often see the limitations of it, or even some undiscovered strengths) I know Daz deals has that built in, but I would love to be able to search for that in the gallery as well. (There is no way to do that right?)
If you don't like the features, you need to return the product. You train vendors to make what you want by buying what you do want and not buying what you don't want. We are not psychic.
I'm not in favor of reviews, and the reason is that angry people leave more reviews than happy people do. For every thousand copies of a product I sell, there are 5 to 10 returns, people who wanted it to do something different, or later felt they couldn't really afford it, or felt misled by the promos. The review section won't say "less than 1% of buyers returned this but every single one left reviews," it'll just say "here's 20 positive reviews and 10 negative ones," which gives the incorrect idea that a third of customers hated it.
EDIT: I will also add: a small percentage of our buyers are on this forum. When there's a complaint on the forum, I go to my sales profile to check how the product did. If it had a higher percentage of returns than usual I'm much more likely to change it than I am on the basis of one complaint, because updates take time and time is money.
I am not even a Daz PA but I would not be in favor of product reviews in this small market.
Asking in the forums will get you a much better contextual answer about a product than an anonymous review comment.
As already stated, Amazon does enough volume to assure a realistic sampling of a large numbers of buyers.
The PA 's here work on a much smaller margin
so two or three "reviews" that begin with statements like
"too bad the doors dont open but .....",
could kill the already short selling window for a product.
Even if no one answers in the forums you can literally try before you fully buy via the extremely liberal 30 day return policy
And anyone who claims that they buy alot ot things and dont get around trying them for over 30 days.
Well IMHO if there are lingering questions about a specific product
in the first place ,you should be willing to at least load it once into studio within a MONTH ,to get those questions definatively answered for yourself.
Not a PA, seeing reviews at Renderosity makes me more sure that I will always take the 30 day money back over reviews. The few reviews that are over there are rarely helpful, and of those that are helpful, sometimes the written reviews only tell me to safely ignore the low star rating because they are taking out their anger at the vendor for not supporting whatever it is that reviewer wants them to support, and nothing to do with the product.
Not the sites fault by the way, I would expect a review system to have the same outcome here, it didn't appear to be an issue with implementation....as to the bus stop, we still don't have a decent contemporary (or even slightly older) transit bus for Daz (or Poser). There are a few on other sites (some very expensive) and most freebie ones are in a format that can't be directly imported into Daz without a lot of conversion. (BTW, I actually have used the free bus stop shelter in my city scenes though)
For me the freebies that see little use are the medieval/fantasy and horror ones as I just am not into either genre.
As to older items with high prices, finally bought the "real" Mini Cooper (still Poser oriented so there will be lot of material work to do, but at least I don't have to convert it from .3ds or. stl format) as that artist was part of the Memorial Day Sale and I still had my 6$ PA coupon. It's been on my wishlist for some time but never saw it on on sale until today.
There are a couple of transit bus options.
The E.M.T. Bus (for Poser) over at Rendo
and the https://www.daz3d.com/nimos-transit-bus is mainly for Bryce, but it does come with an .obj with textures.
I don't have either of these, so I don't know how well they play with Daz, but I've had pretty good luck with using .objs in Daz. The E.M.T. bus has poseable door options, which looks promising.
That's not my impression from what I see on "the other site" (I've read reviews for thousands of products there). The vast majority I've seen there are positive. But then, I'm only going for top quality and usually have a good eye for it, so maybe it has to do with the products I look at. But that would also mean that the reviews are fairly reliable, I think.
Just checked my cart over there where I currently have 6 items, in total they have 24 reviews, all positive with 5 stars, not a single negative one.
I would be careful with the vehicles from that vendor if you're using items in DS. In simple terms, most of their older products for Poser uses Poser's default method to cut up the mesh by groups when its imported, DS doesn't cut up the mesh when imported, so when you open the doors, the mesh will look like it is warping rather than opening. The only way to use the product in DS is to take it to a modeller. Newer products may be set up to properly load in DS, but you'll have to be careful because the "not tested in DS" clause added to those products.. which means you will probably not get a refund if you can't get it to work in DS.
Oops, i cut and pasted the wrong link. THIS is the Daz product I meant to link, that was meant for Bryce. Editing other post now.
https://www.daz3d.com/nimos-transit-bus
Thanks Male M3dia for your post about the other product though, that's good info. I meant to link to the Nimos so apologies for the confusion.
Personally, I look at the promos and if an item looks cool enough, I will find a way to make it work if needed. If I'm in question about something, I come here and ask... Often someone has already bought the item and can answer my simple question :)
I've only ever returned an item once, and that was because I hadn't realized it would only work in poser, which I don't have.
For me, a product that doesn't state "any doors and windows (or other parts that are supposed to move or be moveable) are moveable" is a no-go anyway. Nice to have that 30 days policy, but I won't need it, as I check the descriptions (right up to the file lists) before buying and only buy what offers what I want to get.
As for reviews, I can understand both sides. Yes, there are more people writing a bad review because they are miffed by something. On the other hand, reviews were already quite helpful for me when buying at Rendo, when some restrictions for products were mentioned, which were not visible from the Promo and/or file list.
I just purchased a product that has a minor, but very obvious fault that I have to correct when I use it.
I am not going to return it, because it is otherwise just too good.
Even if nobody returns it, I still expect the vendor to fix the problem.
Because it's the right thing to do, even though it will be a lot of work for the vendor.
Otherwise, I'll have to spend time correcting it every time I use it.
My time, too, is valuable.
Bugs and features are separate things, despite frequent jokes about it. I believe what SickleYield is refering to is people unhappy with a product that is working as intended, but the user wants the product to do something different than, or in addition to, what it was designed to do.
This is why I love Collective3D. They state whether or not things work in the product description.
In their latest offering, (which is a huge housing developement - https://www.daz3d.com/collective3d-neighborhood-block-1)
they even state that doors and windows don't open, and that you can delete them and add items from their create-a-room
packs to make them openable.
Having opening doors and windows in every building would have driven the price up to lottery winner levels.
Valid point.
Apologies to SY if I was in error about her meaning.
Lot's of great feedback, thanks everyone. SY I love your products, never had any issues, well worth every penny
Now, I believe another problem I've always had is, I find free products that work just as good or better then purchase products, specially after refund trial is over. Examples of awesome free products is Wilmap (Wendy), I love using her clothes on majority of my renders. I have found car paint shaders, music instruments, poses, expressions, etc...... that all work great. Some stuff need a lil tweaking. But, I always find these products after I make purchases/30 refund has passed, just browsing or see a forum post, person making suggestions or seeking products.
So, this is the reason I expect higher quality functioning content from PA's, at a price. I only purchase from specific vendors now. I've learn to trust over the years, regardless of price. I'm here to create 3D projects, not store shopping and returns I do plenty of that in the real world, Lol !!!
Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts.
That is the nature of the e-commerce business. Vendors in Amazon are very competitive, so if some vendor sponsors paid reviews the review system cannot be held at fault. I don't think I have ever bought anything from Amazon without going through the reviews first. So yes, reviews helps a lot.
That is an incorrect assumption. Having a refund policy does not negate the relevance of reviews. Amazon has both. We do not know how the other "broker sites" moderate their reviews. It is their implementation of the reveiw feature which again cannot be used as an argument to diminish the value of reviews. Again, it is the moderation factor that influences how effective the review system is. If some brojker site intends their review section only to be used only as addtional marketing tool for the product, then obviously people would stop posting critical comments and it would fill up with promotional drool.
Again, commercial threads for the products are intended for support and not reviews. I once posted a critical comment in a commercial thread and my post was removed citing "deemed to be disruptive in a Commercial thread." Unless some highly value items such as xxx 8 official characters or a few other notable items are released which have dedicated (non-commercial) discussion threads, it almost feels like a gamble to buy something.
If the vendor cannot present their product in a manner to target the right audience then it is an issue with the products's marketing. The user buys a product based on their own needs. Given the amount of information a vendor usually publishes, it becomes difficult for the user to arrive at a decision without enough data points. So it just becomes a trial and return process. Then of course, as you said yourself, anyone could be intimidated for having too many return cases.
I think it would be helpful to PAs (I don't know if support passes the info along if given or not) to just give a quick reason for return description.
The one item I did return, I felt a little bad about because I know PAs work hard on this stuf and it takes them a long time and I wish the PA knew it wasn't because I didn't like the item or felt there was something wrong with it, just that I didn't read carefully enough and had no way to use it. I liked the look of the product enough that I tried everything I could think of to make it work, it just simply boiled down to it needed a feature specific to Poser to use :(
Again, commercial threads for the products are intended for support and not reviews.
I was going to say that, but didn't feel like getting dragged into this any deeper. I'm being careful how I word this...
How can all of these be true?
a) We should use the product's forum commercial release thread for tech support and to ask questions.
b) PAs don't always use the forum or start commercial threads for their products.
c) many PAs don't speak English as their primary language.
d) The forum users don't represent the overall Daz buyer base.
e) Most buyers don't use the forum.
f) Send the PA a PM to get their help. See b and c.
g) Only a user-added-Browser Add-on links to threads about the product.
h) Leave the vendor feedback in their commercial thread.
i) The forum is (fairly) moderated and (most) negative comments are removed.
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An interesting idea is to have automatic Commercial Threads - if the vendor doesn't create one of their own and that thread is the one that is officially linked to- on the product's sales page.
A nice twist might be allow Top-Pinning posts or reviews from Beta Testers and/or the Promo Artists. Those would be (most likely) power users and owners with more than a cursory knowledge of the product.
Other than that, possibly a Paid Reviewer(s) whose job is to write extended reviews and pieces based on a set list of criteria. Imagine that with extended info that a customer might not think to include, but would be a little too much clutter for the actual product page.
I can design it, if you need.
Radial buttons along the top, with several dots for category - using the SAME Category Structure as the runtime. "Wardrobe" "Figure" "Environment" etc...so at a glance, I can see what the product is.
Radial Buttons for Rendering Engine that's needed.
Description: Tech description followed by a flowery spiel.
Features: Includes and does....used by and for.......
File Size and you could even do recommended specs (if necessary since there are certain products that STILL cripple my powerful card during BASIC use)
Additional notes: This is where "Sold as an entire single prop, with no working parts or props" Just note: this is only a Vignette set and does not include all walls or a ceiling. Note: the backdrop is not included. Note: There's are some really nice shaders that you can use with....Note: This is not a 3D set, but a backdrop. Note: This is nota 3D set, this is a set of lighting presets for another product.
This all would be a nice in-between solution.
Unfortunately, most people have no idea how to give a critical comment or review without being hostile or negative. I ran into this a lot doing game QA; I told a colleague 'You have to realize, as testers, we're way down the totem pole and the devs have been working really hard on this. You can phrase criticism without being really negative or hostile.'
"Oh, so they don't want us to be HONEST."
Right.
Will you spend more money if there are reviews? That's the only thing that counts to a business at the end of the day.
isnt it more like supply and demand
like if you the only vendor in town selling a face rigged Dragon 4,
if someone desperately wants one, they'll prolly pay a reediculous intro price
if the product is yet another bikini, as a customer, i wouldnt be willing to pay much for it,
unless it had a tempting new features not sold before
Will you spend more money if there are reviews? That's the only thing that counts to a business at the end of the day.
There's a critical difference is the scope and purpose of reviews. Many stores sell products that no one from the store has EVER SEEN. That makes the reviews EXTREMELY important as they are the only filter.
Daz has its rigorous review process and THAT is their pre-review process. "If it's in the store, then it's of good quality and worth your money"
And if a product does not live up to its promise, it gets removed.
So the reviews by customers would be very personal and probably need to be pruned often.
You complain and give ita zero because a file is missing. Tech adds the file and then what about that negative review?
There should ALMOST NEVER be a negative review. Instead of saying it's a resource hog or the textures are too big, it could be a note that says "Resource Intensive"
So, now, I'm not really leaning towards reviews, but I would LOVE more information. And I don't think the PA needs to write a novel, but many of the products do need fuller descriptions and explanations - especially with no manuals or how to use products. The dilema is putting that information freely available to all. Maybe I'm asking for something I can Acccess from my product download page. Something only buyers can see. Extended info for OWNERS. It's a direction I think is worth exploring.
Tha'ts bull saying we the paying customers would use the review system to write unfair reviews. Why? 'Just because'? Now who's being unfair to customers they've never seen or spoken to or know anything about except DAZ 3D & PAs have money those customers' paid money in their pockets. Thank you for being so graceful!
At any rate, having a review system would not only take time to implement were it implement what it would cause is customers to a more thoroughly try out a product and then review it. And it would lead to a decrease in sales and more returns because trying out more thoroughly those products would expose more bugs and features not present that the buyer was expecting. In some cases it might lead to an increase in sales but typically not.
What I said what was correct. You misunderstood the meaning. In terms of how **this** store works, I explained how the resources should be used to find out info on products sold here. This store does NOT have the volume of customers Amazon does. In fact, the forum itself doesn't have the volume of users needed to push forward a decision. You see about the 10-20 people posting in the forum, but obviously there are more sales than that, which is why it's said that forumites make up a small part of the buying population. If you're only getting a small population posting, you're going to get an even smaller number giving reviews. That's why you can look on other stores in this save market and see tiny number of reviews left that makes it hardly worth the programmers effort to write the code. Also note that Amazon doesn't have a forum that allows the same type of back and forth/follow-up that you can get with asking questions in a forum. So given this small market, you'll get better a better result from asking questions in a forum rather than scouring products for any type of reviews.
I'll flatly disagree with that. There's far too many threads that are opened on this forum where people neglect to read the "what's included" portion of a product page, and start threads based that to say it's totally the fault of a product's marketing.