Price vs Quality
AJ2112
Posts: 1,417
I know this topic has been discussed tremendously, pertaining to content prices etc........ Tonight I realized, price only affects me, when the content is not up to my expectations. I have made some purchases and was amazed how awesome the content was, but then I also purchase content I'll feel ripped off, such as non moving parts, no clothing morphs, etc...... I purchase a guitar prop, but doesn't come with guitar strap, I purchased interior room, walls cannot be altered, doors don't open/close, furniture stuck in place, no hair flow controls, I can share many more examples. I won't return products, thinking maybe someday I'll find use for it. Many PA's read forums, update products, but many do not as well.
Problem I've always had with Daz store is, promo images are very misleading, specially when I was a newbie. No product reviews by purchaser. No way of contacting PA prior to purchase, to ask questions like at other stores. Not every PA uses commercial products section of forum, and most rarely ever return to answer questions, like if product was released 2 years ago. I make a purchase, then I have to make another, then another, etc...... Thanks to required products. I obtain Biolight for free, but then I have to purchase Jelly fish. How is that free ??? I have never seen any new release for free, which would show customer appreciation.
Daz store, has many marvelous PA content, but it's those I feel ripped off, that discourage me from purchasing new release items, reason I wait for sales. Remember, this is just my opinion. All feedback welcome.
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Comments
Thisis why DAZ's 30 day return policy puts it head and shoulders above the competition. Although I've done a lot of price protection over the years, I've only had one case where the technical quality of a product so disappointed me that I asked for a refund... but KNOWING that I can do it makes me feel a lot better about buying items at DAZ.
If you're a PC+ member you get like 5 free new releases a month.
Hi friend, understand what your sharing. Over past few years, I've learned a lot, have PA's I can trust and have confidence they deliver quality. I do appreciate Daz software, which is outstanding., I've never had any issues. Should keep thoughts to myself, cause nothing will ever change anyway pertaining to store. I don't own Daz company, Lol !! But thank's for your feedback.
It would be great to have product review by customers but I guess that will never happen.
Hi Diva, thanks for your feeedback. Not free to me, if I have to purchase PC membership. I'm sure PC membership has it's benefits, but 3D is just a relaxation hobby for me, I have other hobbies as well, such as music/drag racing, that takes financial priority. Many companies reward customers for spending. I have a zlillion reward cards, Rofl !!!!
I mean don't get me wrong, I enjoy 3D, learned a lot, met a lot of cool people, etc..... But, it's not just Daz store, we also have to keep our computer system up to date, 3D friendly. I remember when I first began, my computer was so slow, DS would freeze up and crash constantly, rendering with 3Delight. Just the way our world is evolving into electronic technology = money means better performance. .
The problem with reviews, is that people tend to only give them when they are unhappy with the product, which sometimes is no fault of the product, just the customer misunderstood what it was intended for. Given that the active buyers here are probably in the order of a few thousand at best, then the customer base is too small to ensure a new product gets a variety of reviews, and then a new product might just get one bad review, and that would hit sales. Review systems work best where there is a huge base of potential customers, for example Google Play Store for phone apps, and so products attract hundreds, or even thousands of reviews, and the odd bad one will be drowned out by other positive or neutral reviews.
Well, look at Newegg or Amazon, lots of reviews with 5-star ratings,
even on products that don't sell well. And reviewers take the time to
write long, helpful reviews, as well.
I think you'd see a pretty good balance if reviews were possible here,
especially if the customer could edit the review once a problem was fixed.
Amazon recently had an issue with lots of fake reviews, so there's that. They're also been reported banning customers that make too many returns.
Between DAZ3D's 30 day return policy and this forum, which should be used for product questions, reviews aren't necessary. Even on broker sites with the feature enabled, reviews aren't even used.
I've found reviews helpful, for example on a lot of the Poser stuff at Rendo, where a user confirmed that an item works fine in DS.
Also, if you take the threads here in the forum into account that are reviews of sort... yes, there can be bad reviews, and good reviews. If a product is faulty or doesn't met certain requirements, for example, people here in the forum post about it ("doors that open", anyone
). But you also have a lot of reviews here in the forum that are happy customers just sharing their experience and it helped the PA selling an extra unit or two.
Maybe every product should come with a review thread in the forum that is linked to the product page. And it should definitely have a link if there's a PA thread for it.
The problem would be, though, that these threads might be mixed up with DAZ product support, and someone would have to keep track of what is posted there.
Understand what you posted as an example is precisely why there aren't review threads. You just made a subjective assumption, not a product issue. If the product **says** the doors open and they don't, THEN it is a product issue. Folks should not make reviews off of what they **think** a product should be, and that's really the point of why some reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.
Here's the part where veteran Daz-a-nites tell a newbie all the reasons that the new-user experience isn't a new user experience.
What I keep meaning to write/find is a Daz Survival Guide that explains HOW to use all the information that Daz and the PAs put at your fingertips instead of a manual or proper buyers FAQ. It needs to be written by someone a little more objective than a Mod, PA or Power User/Buyer.
They would explain that you need to look CLOSELY at the product info page and sort through the images (promo pictures) the included list [list of included props] and the MATERIALS and TEXTURE(s) list to see exactly what you get. ((Or what rendering engine is needed/default)) You need to get ATI's browser-helper-add-on to find threads talking about a product you might be interested in.
The forum-users have such massive libraries that there's almost always someone around that bought and has used any product you care to ask about. Wait 3 hours and you can even ask about all the new products. lol
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a) You can never assume anything. If it doesn't say so, claim it's a feature or is SHOWN working in the promo, do not hope that it's included.
b) Promo pics sometimes go over-board with the additional products that over-shadow the main piece on sale. Ask.
c) Product offerings vary per vendor and even then, differ depending on age. Some vendors make sets that everything works (doors, windows, walls remove, drawers open, wheels turn, they include night and day lighting set ups, etc...some have poses included...multiple textures, lots of stuff. And other think you are going to only make a portrait in roughly the same place they show you in the promo. Some sets don't even have 4 walls. lol
d) 30 day return is great, but be aware that lots of stuff you buy is 'for the future' and you don't always use it right away. That why you need to do your due diligence and research your purchases and not just go by pretty renders and promo pics.
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It's a HUGE store with lots of content on offer with SALES EVERY DAY. It's a lot to keep track of and a lot to absorb. It's a little rough for a new user but smooths out over time. Final tip: Ask questions. We've all been there.
It is common to see threads about products; posted by folks that have (and are thinking of) bought/buying the product; I've done both.
I've bought products I'd passed after seeing renders by users; I've returned products, usually with an explanation of why, when they don't meet my expectations.
I don't believe anyone should keep a product they're not happy with; useful feedback when returning should be included imo. In other words, if you don't like it: why? Further, info on why you don't like might help Customer Service resolve one's issue - after all, that is what I would prefer.
I find most of my purchases here of good quality but there have been a few that I've been disappointed with, mostly the issues brought up by tAJ2112.
I agree, product reviews would be a most welcome feature.
Problem is that with these complicated this-discount-depends-on-that sales they have these days, they often would have to recalculate the discounts for the whole order if you return an item. I don't know if they do but if they do, the actual refund may be so small that it's not worth the trouble.
I've only asked for a refund once out of about 1000 DAZ products I paid for and that was being a texture set I bought that had violent and disgusting wounds drawn on the texture set and the product did not include a texture set without those wounds.
Often there are bugs and other quality problems but most often those problems are only problems in the DAZ Studio environment itself and since I buy primarily for use in interactive content (lol, even if I never much bother making that interactive content), the problems disappear because 3rd party programs don't to the DAZ Studio enviroment anyway.
More informative product pages might solve many problems. Just yesterday I looked at a male character that came with a moustache. Not a single promo showing the character without the addon, which covered most of the mouth on all promos, so no way to see how the mouth actually looked. Other commen problems are only showing the product from the front, or with makeup on all promos.
double post
Some are certainly lacking in details; hell basic info. I am more likely to pass on those. I agree that more would be helpful, but more for one, is of no interest to someone else - the risk is that there is too much info; this is what makes the forums invaluable, those who bought it post their thoughts and renders; those that haven't ask questions.
Amazon is one of the few websites I consider the customer comments useful. They, however, often have hundreds and even thousands, so the fanboys and haters can be taken in context.
As mentioned above, I've only returned one item for just being terriblly made, but I've done a lot of price protection over the years. So, yes, they do recalculate the discounts. Otherwise there would be people buying required items to get discounts and then returning them. And there have been sales where the terms of the sale specifically voided the 30 return policy. My best advice is to never delete the e-mailed invoice you get from DAZ, as that's the only version of the invoice that actually shows the individual price of each item sold after ALL discounts are applied, so that's the easiest one to work out what the actual refund will be.
As an aside, the no questions 30 day return policy is a lot of why I stuck around Daz. It's a huge relief and comfort when you only have so much to spend and don't get 'bitten' by misunderstanding products.
Unlikely. Look at how few reviews get placed on items at Renderosity and they PAY people (in Render Rewards) for posting reviews.
A lot of the issues have to do with DAZ's focus on haveing "pretty" graphics rather than informative ones. I was looking at a gown set last week and the text SAID that it came with shoes, but there wasn't a single render where the feet were visible. And, needless to say, I really dislike the fact that we can't see all of a character's skin texture before we buy it, as you usually can at Renderosity. There are so few base skin textures being used by PAs these days and some recycle excessively, so I'll find myself buying a new character only to discover that it's basically the same texture as another figure down to the placement of most of the moles, or actually missing major anatomical details.
I have no issue returning products when I need to. I buy plenty here so I will return items when I feel I can’t get use out of them either because of a usability issue or because I don’t like them. I appreciate the time and energy pas put into making content but I don’t like everything I see nor is everything going to work for what I intend.
Men’s clothing is something I usually buy and hairs. I will often buy adult male characters unless they are too similar.
i think as the cost of items increases I will have to look at the value of an item and scrutinize it more completely to see if... for example I need another set of men’s cargo shorts and sandals. When costs and prices increase buyers have to become more selective so I wonder if people will buy fewer similar items when one or two will do and whether this will hurt pas who make items of similar theme.
But what with sales like "buy 1 get 10% on all, buy 2 get 20% on all, buy 3 get 30% on all". You got 30% on all items because you bought 3 but returning one reduces the discount for all 3 to 20%, you still get the other 2 items for 30% off instead of 20% as far as I can see.
Example (email receipt prices)
Item 1: $10 - 30% = $7
Item 2: $10 - 30% = $7
Item 3: $10 - 30% = $7
Total $21
You return item 3 and they refund you $7, which means you get the other two for $14
But if you had only purchased these two in the first place:
Item 1: $10 - 20% = $8
Item 2: $10 - 20% = $8
Total $16
My experience is that they DON'T do that. The few times I've done it on the phone, they had some kind of "way back" machine type setup where they pull up the individual day and time the sale was made and recalcute the invoice as it would have been run minus the returned item. If you've had a different experience, lucky you!
I feel reviews are always helpful and most people are savvy enough to pick up vibes of "fake" or "bitter" reviews nowadays. Even negative reviews can pursuade others to buy things. If the reviewer is unhappy about doors that don't open, but someone else doesn't care about that and hadn't seen/known about the product sees it, there might be a sale. Reviews about tutorials would be extra helpful.
Reviews, by their very nature, are going to be largely subjective. Unless you're talking about formal reviews written by staff with strict critera of the type that Modern Photography would publish.
If you're at an Amazon-level site, the sheer volume of reviews for mainstream products helps to provide a fairly complete picture of the quality of the product. And there are ways to figure out if a review is fake or questionable - if a product made by an obscure company gets rave reviews posted exclusively by people who have never, ever posted any other reviews, you can bet that the reviews are really just sneaky viral marketing.
But at a niche-interest marketplace, all bets are off. The forums are where discussion about DAZ products takes place, and that's where I'd recommend anyone interested in buying anything hang out for a spell.
I've seen sometimes long threads where people say stuff that is factually untrue.
I'm kind of inclined to err on the side of not giving sometimes honest confusion an air of legitimacy; if people want to weigh in on a product, the forums provide ample opportunity.
If people buy an item they should be able to review it and leave feedback.
But I doubt things will change here. Unless reviews sell more product which I doubt the store will not implement a tool like this especially since a lot of pas don’t appear to want it.
I didn't want reviews before I became a PA, and I don't want it for all the products that aren't mine, either.
I go to the Commercial thread and threads on commons to see discussion, if I'm curious.