Getting priced out of this hobby
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The best deal on gift cards that I've seen lately was near the end of March Madness on 1 April. You could spend $17.57 on three items and get a $30 gift card free; and you could buy the same items repeatedly. If you didn't count the items this was effecively a 41.5% discount on the gift cards
...this is my last stand in art as I ended up in 3D due to severe crippling arthritis which makes it extremely difficult and painful to hold a pencil or brush steady. I have to make do the best I can with what I have and can occasionally afford.
Hey, just because you stop buying Daz stuff doesn't mean that your Daz Studio suddenly stops working. You CAN make do with what you have already. You DON'T need the latest and prettiest things just to use your Daz Studio install. Plus new 'true freebies' are showing up daily, if you know where to look (ShareCG, etc.).
Are the prices on the latest new items climbing? I believe that we have a concensus on that (yes), but you CAN still make stuff in Daz without staying on the bleeding edge of new Daz releases. And those other items will see deeper discounts eventually in most cases, you just have to be patient - say a couple of years or more when the next Generation of Daz models takes hold.
I did spot a new Genesis 2 release in another store recently (also for Genesis 3, but the point is it included Genesis 2 also). The Daz store isn't the only game in town. The biggest game in town definitely, but there are other options.
If the latest round of price hikes aren't getting results (i.e. not selling many items), then maybe Daz (and by extension the PAs) will feel compelled to adjust to market forces, but as long as enough people are willing to pay those higher prices, well then there is no incentive to change.
Don't give up on a hobby you are enjoying just because the latest round of new items is priced higher than you are comfortable paying. If enough people feel the same, well market forces can be rather compelling, just sayin...
Even if your hobby is Daz Pokemon. The library is huge, so you can grab older stuff to work towards completing your collection while you wait for better deals.
OK, I remember that sale now. I remember looking at the prereqs and saying 'yeah, that's not much different than getting a handful of freebies, and there isn't anything I want in the prereqs'. In retrospect, using your analysis I could have spent around $20 and ended up with $30 (so around a $10 profit), but yeah my logic didn't carry that far.
I'm not saying subscription for everthing but If you don't have $900.00 laying around for zBrush .Ya know you got $10.00 for MudBox.
...yeah though tempted by Octane4 at 20$ a month which is a good price for the full render engine and access to plugins. Can't dump 600$ in one lump and I don't think they accept partial payment options other then the forthcoming subscription plan. With a 12 GB GPU card and out of core rendering, that means even epic scenes in a decent amount of time.
Actually if I only decked out G3F with everything I wanted morph and texture wise and bought hair clothes and scenes for each render I'd be spending way less even if I was paying full price, no club. The fact is this is like doll collecting for me. I want that Barbie Dream House with a pool to go with it! I'm cheap so no Ken, I don't need a man! I wanted a collection of stuff to work with so I could find clothes and scenes for all occassions and whatever character I ended up making. I kinda have that right now. Sure I see lots of great new items. Sure I have certain artists I want to collect stuff by. But if I were to be cut off from the internet, lets just say I probably couldn't get around to using it all for years. I like to believe I can take it with me and in Heaven my computer and Daz files will keep me occupied for an eterity. I did decide to mot buy any more Java Monsters. For .89 cents I can get an extra large FullThrottle from the gas station. I still spend more on cigs than Daz. Yeah, it took me years to get a comfey amount of stuff built up. But I could solve 75% of my daz spending woes by shopping smarter. As for using old models, I have loads of those but I bought all kinds of Iray shaders to get them usable. Not sure I broke even, but I like picking things for their shape and retexturing them with shaders. I am happy with what I have. I do see items I want. I do spend money still. Lucky for me I do have lots of stuff already. I can see it as tough to get started though. I started buying in 2014 and made lots of mistakes buying, still do. But it took me 4 years to build up my collection and I am very happy with it. You can't have everything over-night if you are not rich. But even with things costing more, I still think a person could have plenty of fun without needing 2,225 items installed plus a few free items and things from elsewhere. Not everyone has to be a crazy file hoarder to make a little art. I sure like to be a hoarder but managing to find anything in my hoard when it is time get a render going is a nightmare (that's how I know I am at a comfey place), ofcouse I am kicking myself for having so much. I liked shopping more than working. If I had to use every item in a render I'd shoot myself. But it was ON SALE and I got sucked in. My bad.
Yeah, I think our largest soda was a food cost of $0.10. Half of that was the cup.
No matter what DAZ does, I'll still use Studio and remain in 3D.
It's been almost two months since my last purchase here, and y'know what?
Studio still works just fine.
But now I know that I don't need to keep buying stuff to keep on keeping on.
What I already have still works fine.
There are three reasons that I'm not spending here -
1) I'm not into G8.
2) I'm using Studio 4.9.2.70, and some non-figure items don't work in that version.
3) Prices are going up.
3a) I can't even use the sales because I don't use G8, I don't know if the environments
will work in 4.9, and buying/testing/returning is a pain.
So what's the answer? I don't know. The PAs will keep asking for more because the cost
of living is going up, and I'll keep buying less because my income isn't. Nobody wins but
the gas station. (As soon as the rainy season is over, anyway!)
But it is what it is.
It always was a rich person's game, Ippotamus. You (and from here on, I use you as a generalized you, bot personally adressing you, Ippotamus) need a computer that can do more than simple websurfing and document editing. That is a luxuary item, and always was a luxuary item.
Prices go up everywhere, and the pay doesn't keep up with the rising prices. Ten years ago, a roll was 60 cent. Now it's 90 cent or even 1€. Gas is €1.40 and more per liter, compared to €1.10 or below ten years ago.
And don't get me started about my rent, which went up from 500€ to 700€ (and if I'd move in new today would be closer to €1000 for the same appartment).
You are paying for another luxuary - content that was pre-made by other people's labor.
You work with a program that is free of charge, but that is constantly developed. The costs for development are charged through the price you pay for the pre-made content.
A comparision...
So... to come back to a post I made a couple of pages ago... If you are really on a tight budget, you simply cannot afford pre-made content. It is a luxuary item, just like expensive chocolates or a visit at the restaurant, or the Lambourghini on the lawn of your villa. You can either learn to make your own content, or look for a different hobby altogether.
Because in the end -for pre-made content - it is only the customer who buys that counts, and not the masses complaining that "it's too expensive"... and as long as there are enough buying customers who are willing to invest in pre-made content for whatever reasons, content creators can ask their price, and either make a sale, or not.
and that's the whole thing. I don't have a budget anymore, due to reduced finances, so I can't afford to buy. It's as simple as that. It's got nothing to do with PA's or anything like that - they're trying to live like all of us. I certainly am not begrudging their prices or anything like that, nor do I have some stupid grudge or anything against them. It's simply ME whose finances no longer stretch to a luxury. Three years ago, things were fine. I could easily drop $30 a week if I wanted to, on my hobby. But now, things are different - we're no longer fine, our income dropped radically, so I can no longer even spend $10. That's just the way it is. Perhaps if things get better financially for us, I can go back to buying. Who knows. But right now I have more than enough content to continue my art. I haven't started arting. LOL. As BeeMKay says, this is a luxury hobby - I don't make money from it, so it's a luxury.
This!! Bottom line is users can complain all they want about prices and their lot in life as to why they can't afford something, it doesn't change the fact a company has to make money to survive and PAs need to get a return on their time investment or find another way to make a living.
If I lost my job in the morning, I could still continue using DS and not spend a dime. I have a ton of content already, I know how to model, I use lots of mesh assets from the games I own for fan art and there are tons of mesh assets on the web..
...or you can learn how to get the most out of what you have and can afford. Modelling, rigging, and texturing, like programming, is not for everyone as I have been discovering myself.
I managed to build my system while living on a pretty crappy income. It took almost 18 months to save up (during which I took the time to learn how to design and build PCs) but I felt if I really wanted to stay in this (and there was little chance of going back to the traditional media I had worked with most of my life as my arthritis is getting worse with age) I had to be patient and find ways to keep costs down (back then BIY was more cost effective than it is today). I don't feel guilty about wishlisting and purchasing only when items are on sale as for "one of me" there are dozens of "Dazaholics" here who purchase on impulse once anything new hits the store to make up for it. I also focus on what I know I will need and use for the work I do and not get taken in by every new "shiny" that comes along. I think the last time I bought any content spanking brand new once it hit the store (other than a few PC items like hair, shader kits and generic prop kits) was the Grand Piano as I had been waiting for an accurately modelled one for almost a decade (when I first learned it was in the works, I set aside funds for it).
I too am on a fixed income so it means becoming more resourceful with what I have and knowing when to draw the line (like not bothering with moving to the latest Genesis generation for example) and fortunately my only major monthly expense is keeping a roof over my head (I live alone and don't drive so no family or car to support).
So there are ways to manage this hobby on a tight budget and still get enjoyment from what you do with it.
When I started this in 2014, I was on a very fixed income. Now I still budget and shop sales because I kinda want to keep it reasonable. I did have to skip G8 and it kinda annoys me, but the clones so I can use G8 stuff on G3 has let me enjoy looking at the newer content. I still have loads of PC content on my wishlist. I have tons of shaders and textures because I enjoy recoloring things. My G3F is all decked out. It just takes a little longer to wait for a sale and save up. I am so busy in real life, the thing I can't buy is time. Making characters and recoloring things is my limit for doing it myself. I run out of time to do more than that.
Can you even get modern Photoshop (not the suite, just real Photoshop) without a subscription? I would like to upgrade from PS5 but detest the subscription gimmic. I don't use any of the other products in the suite.
If the price is going up, I believe everyone is neglecting those 50% or more off **new** releases that PAs generally don't know about until they're actually released. If a vendor plans for the regular 30% release discount and another 30% is taken off the top, that means the PA takes a major hit on sales. Now if everyone would push back on these ridiculous release discounts, then a PA would not need to cover themselves so they don't take a loss. But everyone loves a major discount, so PAs have to adjust their products accordingly. Still, those of us that have been around know that prices for what you got a long time ago doesn't compare to what they are selling now, even with the perceived raise in prices; everyone is so used to rock bottom prices that PAs shouldn't be the ones to take the hit for it.
8kx8k? Holy crap can you even tell the difference between 4kx4k? I mean can you see the difference on a screen that is 1080? or 4k?
The full version, no, not to my knowledge. But you can get Photoshop Elements, which is affordable.
A hit in revenue, perhaps. Sales (items moved) are likely to increase with a 50% intro. If increased enough, it might result in more revenue than would have been the case at 30% intro (obviously unknown on an individual basis). I rarely buy at 30%, but I've jumped at some 50% intros because the advantage of waiting for a later sale at 50% is removed. Buy-desired-thing-now.
Interesting, though, that PAs are not involved in that launch decision.
It makes a difference on head-shot level closeups of the hair. The hi-res is pretty much how they get the transmap hair to look like some kind of incredibly fine fibre mesh.
Here's a thought experiment: If new prices would drop permanently to 50% of current prices, and only is put on sale after the item is two or three years old... do you seriously belive that people would buy more?
1) Not when 50% becomes what customers expect. As you said, you will jump at 50% because you expect that... but I have to cover my costs to allow that discount.
2) Also an increase in discount means you have to sell more to make the same profit. Some products (like male items) don't have the market for that scenario.
EDIT: Also understand in years prior, there were only TWO times of years that a 50% discount was offered: March Madness and the PA Sale... now it's more than that.. so the regular prices now have to accommodate that.
I have so much stuff that is older and is a PC item or a Daz Original in my wishlist. If I go by price and the amount of the discount, I am not always looking at new stuff coming out. PAs should have a say in the sales thing though. However, Daz has a vested interest in an item selling well and bringing the most money possible. Daz can't throw venders under the bus to keep the customer base happy, happy, happy. The newer items coming out look great. I would think more time goes into them and people have to adjust for that. Because I had to skip G8, I took note of the discounts on new stuff. When G9 comes out I will most likely be hunting those new item discounts and buying sooner rather than later. But for now, I am not ready to jump on new stuff and shop like that. I think it depends on how you buy and what is in your wishlist already.
Thank you. I didn't think so.
I've been using full Photoshop since 1998 updating it about every three years. I was lucky enough several years ago to find a copy of full Photoshop5 boxed version at great discount, on a shelf in a store that was going out of business. But have not been able to find PS5.5 or PS6 boxed versions. PS5 is OK and I get great useage from it and even use some its advanced features. But I really would like to be a little more up-to-date. I've tried PS-Elements and it is, I'm sure, OK for many people but I'm so used to full Photoshop that I feel limited with "Elements". 
As for the subscription concept: I detest the idea of taking yet another monthly deduction from my limited income. Monthly deductions are a cancer on my finances.
An all too easy addiction. 
Here's the thing. If the prices got a lot lower, it would mean fewer PAs could afford to do this. Which would mean the Daz market would shrink and you'd probably see an uptick on free-and-hope-for-donations content (which, as folks have commented on, isn't up to the standards of content here, generally; lack of QA, less customer service, etc).
That's not a moral judgement or anything, it's just how things work. As it is, doing CGI work is a gamble. You have no idea whether a product is necessarily going to sell well, you don't know how long it's going to take on a product (I mean, you start getting a sense of how long once you've done it a bunch of times, but... you don't know for sure), there's a chance Daz won't take it, there's a chance it's going to be released either with a bunch of competition or after a long running sale or otherwise ... And then after all that you have to deal with the complaints. 'Wow, that's an amazing three headed giant! But I find it unconscionable that you would dare to not include anatomy maps! PAs are so lazy nowadays. And why can't I choose how many heads it has? It should be trivial to include such a useful feature, why aren't you thinking of the customer? If you want my money, listen to my valuable market research.'
I mean, it beats digging ditches, but it's tricky to live on. Personally, I do this as a side thing; I am continually impressed at PAs who do this to pay bills.
I don't mean this as a criticism (well, except for people who are over the top critical), but as perspective on the situation. Yes, it stinks if your income can't support your buying habits. I can definitely sympathize; my family is doing decently now but there have been a few times I've had to let PC+ lapse because I just couldn't prioritize Daz stuff vs. other bills.
But please understand that this market that you really want to enjoy _cannot_ be significantly cheaper. If it was, you would then not have the market you wanted. Those markets, like free content, DO exist already. And there's a reason you don't find them as appealing.
well, maybe I have to move back to V4/M4 content ..its nearly free
That overused phrase, it is what it is ... we can only buy what we can affrod. can't afford, don't buy. unfortunately.
I agree...we all need to make money, save money ... to live, so me, like many others, get to as point where living comes before hobby.
The PAs here make some very cool stuff, otherwise the want to buy it would not exist.
Reality ...
It doesn't have to be expensive. If you are very well disciplined and can resist all the bright new shiney toys this hobby can be virtually free. DAZ Studio is free and comes with Genesis, Genesis 2, Genesis 3, and Gensis 8 base figures. There is a wealth of free models available from ShareCG and Renderosity Freestuff as well as a number of smaller individual sites. And if you can't find something you want, there are even free modeling programs such as Blender and Hexagon so you can make it yourself.
Well the proof will be in the pudding. If sales remain strong for high priced items then I am sure the site and pas will do well.
annual plan $20.00 a month or $240 a year.mothly $30.00.
depends on how close you zoom in to the hair.you can always make a texture smaller.
Well some items I am willing to pay more for, but there is less left to go round for other artists. If the items cost more, I will have fewer items. I'll buy the older cheaper things first most of the time. There has always been a my toybox is bigger than your toybox kind of thing to this anyway. I mean if I made pictures with all free stuff, would they look as good? I certainly hope not, cause I did spend some money. For some people it will get to the point its not a fun hobby for them on their budget, as the OP said. I may have to get off the internet and just open daz studio and youtube more than shop. Its still fun for me because I have lots to play with already. Perhaps better looking stuff with d-force will draw in more people than were tempted to do this before. I would love it if more people did get into this for a hobby. But when a new guy asks how much it really costs to do this, I kinda don't want to scare them off. Me, afraid to speak, imagine that! All I could do was recommend PC+ if you were going to get a few items and run away and hide with my lips tightly zipped.