Getting priced out of this hobby
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This is the crux of it. There are two business models at odds here: make money on volume or make money on price. In other words, sell things at low cost but sell lots of them or sell only a few but have a higher price / profit on those few. Long ago DAZ was clearly in the first bin. They sold lots of stuff, mostly at very modest prices. Over time the state of the art has advanced though. Heck, bump and displacement were exotic 12 years ago when I got started at this. Now with Iray hyper-realism is desired. That extends to content. Bigger, more detailed textures, detail like seams and stitches built into the model rather than just painted on, et cetera. And less tweaking by the end user, more automagically handled via lots of JCMs and the like. This is what the community wants, but it is way more expensive to produce than something like Dresscoat Italia for V3 was (alothough the rigging back then was a bear).
So as the time investment to produce products increased it was natural that DAZ and the PAs would gravitate more towards that second model, sell fewer but with higher prices. I don't know if sacraficing volume is working out for them or not. But this isn't crazy or greedy, it's a reasonable and rational evolution in business pricing strategy. Ithink the Platinum Club is DAZ' way of trying to strike a balance, you have to pay a fee but you can get a large back catalog of items for dirt cheap and some newer items with pretty steep discounts. But the newest stuff is not going to be cheap compared to ten or five years ago. But with the exception of some exceptional PAs from the old days (Stonmason, Aeon Soul, and others) the stuff now is generall better and more detailed across the board.
I'm no PA and won't ever be (most likely). But it seems to me that were I to go down that path, the effort to stand up my own storefront, generate "buzz" and traffic, generate and process sales, etc would be a real pain. I'd certainly look to an established broker instead. DAZ is one, there are others. But I'll say thiis: I have bought a lot of items from a great PA both here and at another site. Every item sold here was top notch, super high quality. Some of the items at that other site were lower quality and one was, frankly, not fit for sale. Same PA. This is anecdotal, single data point but I'm going to break every rule of statistics and make an inference from it. Here goes: I have to presume that the QA and standards at DAZ force higher quality. I haven't been burned on an item in the DAZ store that was poor quality in a long time, many years.
Yep, I have that hair too. Plus, Genesis, G2M and G3M all have the exact same Viking hair product. Talk about a lack of compatibility between generations. That's like the Belle Dress I had for G3F, now they have the exact same dress for G8F. Thought they could wear each others clothes? Seems like it never ends.
To me, it all comes down to very old advice - "it ain't just what you got, it's how you use it."
I come from a photography background, where it's very easy to go crazy buying lenses and filters and endless post-processing packages and it's all for naught if you don't really concentrate on the best actual photograph you can take. Friends of mine who have spent thousands on film equipment years ago were lucky to unload it for $100.00 on ebay. So, with that mindset, I've never overspent on this CG hobby and I've resisted the Pokemon mentality. I also get a huge kick out of creating my own characters with Facegen and morph packages, retexturing clothes and vehicles, kitbashing, minor modeling, making my own textures, and so forth. All part of the fun for me.
The prices at Daz for newer items still seem to be a bargain to my jaded eyes.
As far as the Viking hairstyles go, they're catering to the laziness (or lack of time) of people who can't be bothered to parent a hair, translate to position it properly, look up and use the morphs for adjusting how it sits on shoulders/back/chest.One step autofit for armor, big flowy dresses, and high heels seems to be the unattainable holy grail of autofit. But I'd like to sit down sometime, do an ultra-accurate recreation of the V4/M4 default pose for Genesis 3, and then see if I can get Sickleyield's approach of "pose character/load clothes to be converted/change clothing's scene identification to match character/transfer rigging from character to clothes/fit to character" to work for things like Paladin and Paragon (currently easier just to hide everything but G3's head and parent to invisible M4 wearing P&P), Annunaki (currently a mix of parenting the armor and an only marginally successful autofit of the skirt) or My Princess Dress (currently easier to autofit the top and parent the skirt to G3F's lower abdomen.)
I would be psyched as heck to have a tutorial like that! What a great resource it would be. I am forever parenting things, then using trans and rotate dials and scaling to make hairs fit other figures. Same with clothes that are unwilling to work. I remember the days when vendors gave you clothes with mats to hide body parts to avoid poke through because there were no fit morphs. And yes, a few of them needed the whole body OFF. Crazy to create clothing with no morphs back then. And I still get a few now too. Not as drastic as shutting of body parts, but that don't have enough morphs to fix poke through when posing. So yeah, I'd for sure be interested in that tutorial. Holler.....
They can't wear each other's clothes per se, they include tools to automaticallly convert clothes from one figure to another. But those tools are generic and have limits since they're completelly automatic. Typically big skirts, custom bones and shoes can be problematic.
A manual conversion made specifically for a given item can be adjusted to get a better result, and you can add custom morphs to support base shapes of the new figure for example. But if the result of autofit is good enough for you then no need to buy the conversion.
Well, have to see if my theory works first, then see if it requires a tutorial beyond what SY has put up. :)
I think you misunderstand.
It's not that there's nothing to it, but that if you can't spend the money on the work, spend your time. I mean, what other answer is there?
Also, the effort to make something good enough for some render of yours is rather less than the effort of making something people will actually buy.
Like, I'm working on a figure. If you bend the head a certain way, the neck folds and looks terrible. If you move a leg a certain other way, it folds and stuff bends weird. For my own purposes, well, I could just ... make sure not to bend the figure that way, or set up the camera to hide the problem.
Obviously, that doesn't fly for a product on Daz. So, there's a bunch of work to make JCMs and do all sorts of other stuff customers have come to expect.
But if it's just you, doing stuff for you? Eh, good enough for what you need right now, right?
Maybe read my whole post.
The proper middle ground is learning to get more use out of the items you have.
Instead of buying one more outfit, flip an old one and use some shaders and what-else to add new life to older items.
There's so many steps between "I must always buy something new" and "Roll your own from scratch".
as someone who's worked both sides in a couple of different industries, I think 50% is fair considering that DAZ isn't just selling the product, but marketing it, handling customer service, QC, all the accounting and online storage. In most businesses there are multiple entities involved all taking their share along the way, but, when added together, those actual costs are significantly higher than 50%. For example, a (non-A-list) author who sells a book to a major publshing company can expect to receive 10-15% off hardback sales and 8-12% off paperback sales after all the costs of editing, printing, shipping and accounting are taken out, while independent film production companies are doing good to get 25% of the NET, not the gross, of DVD/Bluray sales, and streaming video and television broadcast pays a fraction of that.
And, keep in mind, even if you could do and decided to do all those jobs yourself, a large portion of the time that's spent doing those tasks will take away from the amount of time that you could have used creating more product. That's why the Runtime DNA folks eventually decided to merge into DAZ, after all... they were creators who'd ended up spending most of their time running a business instead of actually doing what they wanted to do.
All that said, the size of DAZ and the Artist's cut is really less germaine to the overall pricing of the product when compared to the marketing environment that DAZ has created over the last half-dozen years. Simply put, DAZ's marketing has become all about sales and discounts with very little emphasis on the relative quality of the product. And as a result, many of us have come to be highly resistant to buying on initial release because we know that, eventually, that same item is going to be on sale for at least 50% off and usually quite a bit more, so it seems DAZ has resorted to ever-increasing bonuses and mega-older product sales for purchasing early to keep feeding the beast. Now we're getting the blowback, as they appear to be trying to offset the early purchase discounts by slowly upping the base price numbers and cutting back on the actual content... hence, DAZ Original base figures don't automatically come with a pose set as the Genesis and G2 lines did, the price of Pro bundles sneaking up while quantity of products decreases and now PA product prices creeping up as well.
i received an extra 10% off coupon this morning ..good until the 21st. interesting that.
The reason for the high percentage is simple really.
If a 3D modeller has his own website and its store, it's unlikely that he is going to sell many if any. Big sites like Turbosquid acts like a central marrket place.When someone is looking for a 3D model to buy, it's one of the first places they will visit.
Long story short, the volume makes up for it.
In return, Turbosquid, Daz, and the like handle billing, basic support, and chargebacks if any.
...also at TS you have to check the licencing conditions as on many items it is more restrictive than here at Daz or Rendo.
...this.
I often resort to kitbashing, mix-matching, and using the Geometry Editor as well as purchase "generic" material/shader resource kits. As I mentioned earlier I rarely buy a specific "character" as for some time (back to the Gen4 days) have been creating my own through morphing, merchant resource content, and use of dFormers).
Outside of very simple props my modelling skills are pretty lame though I plan to improve that to create items I need that cannot be found pre made (or cost an arm and a leg form a pro store).
When items are now $20-$30 my choice is to not renew the Platinum Membership and shop elsewhere. To be truthful I don't need the newest item to enjoy 3d art. There may be many reasons why the prices are climbing but when people can't afford them it makes no difference the reasons.
Considering that FREE items don't cost me anything and I am not forced to use them, I see no reason to complain about a lack of quality. Compared to that, a lack of quality on stuff that has gone through any kind of QA is kinda depressing.
Yet people complain.
And the qa and quality is one reason I prefer stores to free (though I definitely pick up freebies)
I find just the opposite as you are paying for a more expanded license there in most cases
Same here.
The predominance of IRAY and Dforce has caused me to cut way back on purchases of new content.
The Geometry Editor is something I need to use more. It always felt like one of those advanced options for "pro" users that was out of my league, but it's pretty darn easy. And I love generic shader packs. I get so much use out of the ones I've bought to turn my piles of old Poser content into Iray-ready pieces.
I definitely can't make content myself (I bought the tutorials and gave it a sad, sad try), but I can dial spin morphs, adjust textures, and swap shaders around.
Yeah, my budget got cut this year, I bought a dog. My husband said great, pay for him with your Daz allowance. So I have tried to work with that. I have spent my monthly allowance and then some. I usually end up with nothing to carry over and a few months behind if I try to take advantage of a sale. Forget stacking deals, my budget can't stack and I have to buy things I really wouldn't otherwise. I buy lots of textures and love to texture and I have been very happy with playing with everything I got from Arki cause has lots of materials zones. I like Aeon Souls stuff, but I bought an item and it really had no materials zones set up to speak of. I put their stuff in my wishlist but I'll have to add zones and stuff myself. I knew I had to skip G8 altogether because I had put so much into my G3F. G8 is everywhere now. I am going to skip using most of my coupons and see if I can save up for the October sales. My husband enjoys telling me what kind of computer I could buy if I take a break for a bit. This is a six year old computer, and I am always broke. My am committed to skipping G8 altogether. I thought about testing it but decided to just say no. I like supporting the artists and I like having a legal collection, but I need to spend more timne with what I have already rather than shopping because its easier than making stuff and doing renders. If I really enjoy using all that I have then I'll go all in for G9 but until then I have work to do or not do. I could read a book for $10 a month kindle unlimited.....
Quick question:
Since you are on a 'fixed' Daz allowance, are you taking advantage of Gift Card sales? If not, even if it's just 10% off of a gift card, well that translates to 10% off of everything you'd be 'buying' with said gift card balance Gift cards are a great way to stretch your Daz budget a little farther, AS LONG AS the math works out r.e. the 'buy in'. The 16% off sale that is running right now works with cheap Platinum Club items, so if you have a few hundred dollars that you can 'bank' as store credit via a gift card, yeah in the long run you can come out ahead there.
The 10% off sale that is running right now has a pretty steep buy-in, so unless you want the stuff in that sale, yeah that option isn't as attractive. It does 'stack' with the 16% off gift card sale though if there's stuff there you want...
Since other Daz customers turned me on to the gift card thing, I've gotten into the habit of grabbing gift cards regularly, especially when the price is right. Plus, you get to feel all warm and fuzzy 'cuz you sent yourself a little gift...
Let me start by saying that I spend entirely too much here at DAZ. I don’t even want to know how much I’ve spent over the last 8 years (I’m sure I could have bought a car or two). I have seen some changes in my spending habits recently (last 6 months). I wish list a lot more. There are very few products I buy once they come out. I still spend quite a bit, but I’m not spending as much. I think my spending kind of changed after March Madness. I got so used to those prices, that I just couldn’t go back to spending full price anymore. Unless I see immediate utility in something, I just wish list now and wait for a sale.
Jason
Funny you bring that up. I have never bought a GC my whole 11 years here until last month when someone pointed out the savings numbers when it was on sale and it clicked in my head on what a deal it was. Since then I have bought 2 more, with one being today for 32% off, which bascially gave me $100 of free product, so I am a huge fan of GCs now, LOL
Yeah, I just banked $600 of store credit with that 32% discount ($408 spent towards said gift card)... I was going to try to include Mika 8 in that purchase using the 10% thank you coupon (btw I'm on the X Morphs bandwagon now), but then I had to remind myself that could get her for cheaper a bit later with said 32% 'discounted credit'.
I'd have banked more, but you know, budgeting and all that. I think that 32% off is the best I've personally ever managed on a gift card purchase.
Now hopefully I can excercise more discipline and make it last for a bit, and not blow it all on frivolous Daz purchases, just stuff I actually need and will use...
But that Lara is just so cute. I may not be able to resist her charms...
I'm a artist not a business man .I do know CGI Art .You never stop learning and different app's work better for me.I model way faster in C4D then Blender.I Sculpt better in MudBox better then zBrush or Blender.
They just fit me better .Others will have there own fav app's.Substance is more complicated then gimp or photoshop .I use Wacom n 2 PC's Towers.I've been a CGI Artist for decades n have a lot of $$$ in my CGI Studio.
So if I make a Vicky in a week .It's cause I have decades of experience n built my skill leave up n the CGI Studio to do so.
So ya a week to make a Vicky is not a long time but the Decades of experience ... and then there's the cost of it all.
I absolutely hate subscription but Daz Platium does provide free models and they do lower the price of their own models. The issue is the price hike for regular vendors because they are trying to get what they want for their products while still paying Daz their commison. Consequently, I just buy what I want when it is extremly on sale, and I must really want it or: No sale. The other problem is that this is a hobby for me and am not really profiting from this. I don't really own anything, I just have a license to render a 2D image or animation if I have the software. So, when the models get too expensive, I just don't buy. This can hurt a company that isn't really selling anything but rights to render images in 3D. I was excited when the 3D print came out but at hundereds of dollars for what is essentionally a doll or figurine: I said Hell No tooo Expensive for a little piece of plastic. If you have deep pocket this is not an issue but when you start looking at this hobby and look ath the value for my dollar it makes you think twice about spending so much on just license purchases.
you do buy a lot of the daz originals/pro bundles and add on pro bundle sales characters judging from your preview test renders of side by side renders you post in a lot of threads when a new daz original/pro bundle is released of course we do get really good deals on those lately haven't we