Getting priced out of this hobby
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Yeah Quark was good too, and I worked with it back in the day. Looks like QuarkExpress is still a thing, with a new version coming this year, this week in fact. $185 isn't too horribly bad as pricing goes.. $849 for the full version. Well at least it's a standalone purchase. $79 if you can prove you are a student or teacher though...
Yeah, I am facing this exact problem. I went for a few years without buying anything for DAZ and Rendo. But then I came back and have spent way too much in the last six months. My PC membership expires tomorrow and I don't intend on renewing. I also just finished writing the script for a planned graphic novel, so it is perfect timing for me to stop buying any more stuff and get working on the artwork for that. Save money and get a passion project done. Win win. Oh, BTW - If anyone is looking for a decent used rig, PM me.
I have to admit, now that I said it, im really having a difficult time justifying my earlier statement. Im assuming that a daz subscription would cost less than I pay on a monthly basis already so in theory I would save money and have access to everything. As for legal ownership, well, I "own" alot of content and much of that content still has seen little to no use so can I really say that I benefit from owning that content???
So suppose that I did decide to go with a subscription plan. That wouldnt change the problem of hardware limitations and the need for constant costly upgrades... If daz could remove the client side need for expensive gpu's, etc., and provide the client with professional rendering capabilities, that would be golden.
...we called it "Ragemaker" in one place where I worked.
I go in phases. I'll look at some items for 3 or 4 years and think "Oh my goodness, that is so expensive." Then one day, I'll splurge and $150 buck at a sitting.
I have spent quite a bit the last 12 months. Now I must slow down. I need to actually use the content I have bought. Time is my only issue, I need to strap myself down and start going through my content. I got 15 years worth to use. Not just the past 12 months. LOL! It's hard not to buy sometimes, if you got a couple JAcksons left on your Debit Card. Got to learn control! lol!
I look at it in terms of "How much of my time do I have put into creating the same type of content"? And "How much do I have to invest in learning time to get to that skill level?" and "How much do I have for the software it needs to create that?"
So, if the rough guess is that modelling a decent looking hair takes about twenty hours, then creating the various shape morphs and movement morphes in another thirty hours... and you then need to create the hair maps...
Honestly, yes, our hobby is prices, but so is work time to create content.
So people say "I only buy at under 5$" or "I only buy at 70% off"... and the result? PAs will invest less time into making things because at $5 a piece, they get 50% of that, so $2.50 and selling perhaps 200 items ends you with $500. If you sell that much. Or a higher percentage off will result in higher base prices because the aim is to get that same amount of money for it that you got before the even more insane pricing schemes.
I mean, if they were cutting the base price by half, and the highest sales you'd get would be 20-30%... how many of you would still buy then?
Yeah I hear ya on that part, one of my previous purchases were the crowd billboard products.. When I got them I went WTH, with all the files selected in DIM it was like 15gig in size and well before getting my fast internet I was downloading at 650KB/s so you can imagine it took hours to get them..
On/Off Topic: I am getting priced out as well, and considering the amount of content I have purchased of the years starting from 2004/2005, I reckon I have spent between $5000 to $10000 on content alone.. But now things are getting way out of hand, and with and the two year Genesis product cycle it makes it even harder..
Heck I am only just starting to use Genesis 3 because of Creature morphs for Genesis 3.. There are many other issues such as low poly count for the teeth but that is another story..
Yeah if they ever went subscription I would be in the abandoning 3D so fast it would make ones head swim boat.. I mean there is software out there that a subscription works such as Adobe Photoshop CC, but doing that to 3D content would/could be the time to jump ship for a lot of people..
I hear ya on that as well, over the last few months I have spent a heck of a lot on content, and like you said I need to learn control also.. lol And maybe it is that time to learn it, will have to decide whether or not to do so before my PC+ renews..
The flaw in this argument is that, by the time stuff is available for 70% off, it's been in a PA's library for a while, and they've moved on to do other things/newer products in the meantime. New items generally don't get 70% off right out the gate. It starts at 30% off (sometimes more), then maybe goes off sale, then you might see it for 40% or 50% off occasionally, with deeper discounts every so often. If a product premiered at say $12 (with 30% off), the artist stiould get $6.
Also, prices aren't always static. I've seen the 'retail price' hiked on a small handful of items hiked a few times now, so that they could hit a certain 'price target' after discount. With the retail price going back down at some point after said sale.
Not sure how compettive the 'cut' at other stores may be, but I've noted lower debut prices regularly (after discount) at one other store in particular as of late.
And stuff that's been in a PA's catalog for years or even a decade or more, well updating it for a later generation and re-releasing it is another option to 'rejuvenate' the revenue you might get off of that item. Updating it shouldnt' take nearly as long the second time around, as you've likely become a much more efficient artist since then.
I've read in a few places that a few of the PAs here are making thousands of dollars a month. This isn't all PAs certainly, but there are a few that are making a fairly decent living doing this. And a few PAs are simply happy to see any sort of return on their investment, and aren't looking to make a living off of the handful of products they which they have and/or may eventually make.
But the majority of sales is made in the first week, or so I've gathered from the many threads this topic already spawned. And you can get 66% off with some offers - in the first week.
In any case, it basically boils down to learning what you need to learn, to create your own stuff if you don't have the funds for purchased content. As simple and rude as that. It sucks, but you'd only have to pay yourself.
EDIT: Then the hobby returns to be less simple and more skill driven than now, because it's not just the setting up the image part that you need to master, but also the "creating content part".
What's interesting to me about buying the sale items at bottom dollar, and the effect on PAs mentioned above, is that at full price, I wouldn't buy most of the items at all.
This is NOT because they aren't a good value, even at full price, but because unless I have a specific paying project, I *generally* am buying for 'possible projects' with the romantic, but completely unrealistic notion that I'll use all of the stuff that I've bought/acquired.
ain't gonna happen - not possible - too much stuff.
So... The way I see it, by picking up a bottom-dollar products that flesh out my library, but have an 80%+ chance of not being used, I'm actually supporting the vendors in a way. I've migrated the market 'risk' from the vendor to me, and if I actually use it, I suppose the vendor did lose a bit of potential income, but if I don't use it, the vendor benefits at least a little for their effort, and I have a catalog of resources that I can painlessly draw from. It's exactly like buying insurance that you most likely won't ever use, but is a great resource/comfort just the same.
When I have a project that requires a product *now*, I pay the full fare, and both the vendor and I win.
It feels very similar to the software licenses that differentiate between corporate and 'indie' (independant) customers with varied discounts. The more you make from a project, the more you 'share'.
just another way to rationalize my fastgrab habit, I suppose...
Regarding the original post/topic - I stopped at Genesis1, and am saturated as a 'collector' - other than utils/tools - but it feels like almost everything on the front pages is probably better quality than when I started collection, but way more costly. I don't think I'd be the collector I am now, if the prices were comparable back then. I thought the Vue/Eon sites were too rich back then, and have the same feeling here these days. Yet the products are pretty impressive, simply too rich for my level of involvement and budget.
Still love a good sale though... (And I think DAZ quality is as good or better than the other sites - For the grumbles I have with DAZ, quality has never been at issue).
cheers,
--ms
Yep! When my budget got tight a couple of years ago I cancelled my DISH-TV satellite subscription, and now get all my TV via YouTube and NetFlix. I have had no desire to re-subscribe to DISH or cable. In this case absence does not make the heart grow fonder. It just makes one realize how much $100+ per month useless crap you were paying for. The only thing I've regretted not yet seeing is the last two seasons of Dr. Who. But I'll get them somewhere sometime. But if I don't, the world will not explode.
Yeah, if the PC hasn't had a sale of 50% off before then, I may just pay a 3 month one just for Oct, Nov and Dec then let it drop again. Not that I need to spend the money, but more often than not, the sales are good.
I like to buy props and environments too. I have enough figures and clothes going back to genesis. I am still using G2 for some stuff because they don't add much weight to the scene, even when they're dressed. Plus I like a lot of my G2 clothes. I've used that construction outfit for G2M loads of times, and other stuff too. And now we can use those things for other generations too, so I feel pretty much set.
I did get Ollie and Edie because they were so unique and can be morphed into so many other looks. But I'm not buying the 'kitchy' stuff anymore. Those are a passing fad IMHO.
That's like when I see something in a forum post and want to buy it, 90% of the time, I already own it. I go to the page and it says 'Purchased'. Or on impulse I come to the forum and post, 'Does anyone know what this is??' And come to find out I already own it once they tell me what it is. Red cheeks....embarrassed I don't even know what I have. God only knows what's on my other 2 external drives. One is full and I renamed it 'FULL-DON'T USE'. The other is about full. And my everyday one only has 2.5 TB left. So I'm tapped out. If I buy another external drive, my husband will drive me to divorce court!! I have tons of Poser stuff too. Not just ppl, but nice prop sets and such. So I can live without Daz for now. I had to take their link off my menu bar so the temptation for instant gratification was gone.
and todays stuff iosnt exactly on the cheap. I had two items in my cart that had been 60% off and in my wishlist. Today, they are 40% off ... I can get them for 60% off if I buy 2 new releases from todays new releases ... I deleted them from my cart.
but I think I'm finally learning. Too much stuff that I couldn;t use in 10 lifetimes. plus my overall art output sucks ... I need to maybe concentrate on that.
Its too bad
I have been trying to be more selective in what I get, so I basically have been going after the stuff that I think I need for two planned graphic novels. But the big problem is that I will see some new release that offers additonal Pro bundles or all sorts of additional cool stuff. And I think, well I could use that someday. So I could've saved 50 bucks entirely, but I then rationalized it becaus of how much content I was getting for such a cheap price. I think my spending on DAZ has become the equivalent of being a Virtual Hoarder. LOL
This is so me. I have about 14 years of stuff. As a last hooray, I'm collecting only the Gen 8 Pro Bundles so I can get free previous bundles but once that's done, so am I. I had to create a database for myself just to try and keep up with all this stuff and I only have about 2TB of content.
Yeah, because it's a job. Some do it full time, some do it part time.
But it's a freelance job, which means poor sales can mean a personal disaster for someone trying to make car payments.
Me, right now I have too many demands on my time for this to be more than a part time job (homeschooling my two kids, gulp!). I'm not making a living off of this, but if a product goes badly, it's extremely demoralizing.
It stinks when your money situation worsens and you can't afford a hobby, whether it's Warhammer, golf, or knitting.
But I'd suggest that it's way easier to stay in the CGI than it's been in a long time; back in the late 1990s I was a CGI hobbyist. And it was flippin DEPRESSING; trying to render stuff on a Mac LCII (hahaha), and it'd take all day to render this tiny little image (Yay Ray Dream Studio!)
And then every year or two, new versions are out, or a new OS, and I'm sitting there going 'well, fudge.'
Not only were my rendering results terribad, but I had to pay far more than I could really afford just to keep up. I ended up quitting a number of times, trying it again, getting overwhelmed trying to keep up, quitting.
But... now? There are tens of thousands of items out there for free, Daz Studio is FREE ... that's, man. That's just flippin amazing. Hexagon and Blender are free. GIMP is free.
So you can easily render as you have been, spending nothing. Or make new content, spending nothing but your time.
It's interesting to think of the DAZ person sitting in their cubical looking at this thread and thinking of new ways to get more money out of us, that is afterall, their job, LOL
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Actually, I'm sitting in my cubical thinking of a way to make my items better to get a little more money to buy groceries. ;)
Just give your next robot some cleavage and a thong then the core market buyers will be sure to pick it up.
Actually, I'm sitting in my cubical thinking of a way to make my items better to get a little more money to buy groceries. ;)
1) Have a flash sale.
2) Do bundles/more connected items
3) Patreon - I'd slide you some coins per month to hear your updates and listen to you ramble on about nothing. MAYBE every so often you slide your supporters a free texture piece.
4) What ever happened to your contest? You started a thread where there was a render contest. Never announced a winner...
5) Speak to Daz and ask them to slow down with the pricing hikes.
6) Anything that's rejected from Daz or a minor project, sell on your own blog (not a site, but a blog)
'5) Speak to Daz and ask them to slow down with the pricing hikes.'
Do you have real world data that that will result in higher earnings per work hour?
I think this is what I'll have to do as well. I can't buy back in unless it's at least 40% off (since currency exchange adds another 30%+ back on). At this point I'm thinking I'll just have to wait until the big Fall sales to buy back in temporarily.
Yes. More sales = more money made.
The point of a SALE is to lower prices to induce buying.
Real Sales data equals me. Just now I spent $30 bucks on the Flash Sale.
Money I would not have spent today.
So yeah, flash sales work.
Do you have real world data that they don't?
This will all get sorted out by business. Daz will crunch the numbers and if people still are buying and/or the profits look great then all will continue.
If not, you'll see changes.
I look at myself as a person who spends a lot and it's related to my business so yeah, I but what I NEED to and also WANT.
I expect a return on my investment.
And if I can feel the burn from these prices going up, if there's threads full of people 'noticing the changes' - that menas it just aint me.
The only part I control is me and if ME slows down, I can sqaurely name what will cause me to open the wallet.
Having a sale may result in selling more units, but since the price per unit is lower that doesn't always mean more money.