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The sell here, is that DAZ Studio is a simple 'make art' tool, which isn't entirely untrue, but...
The reality that the seasoned veterans have learned, is that world of 3D image production is simply a complicated endeavor, regardless the tools and content that are available, and DAZ Studio is capable but inherently complicated. It has to be, to enable the control required to produce the results we see. And remember that the folks doing the 'make art' sell videos are masters, so the impression that it should be easier is not irrational. To those of us who can't draw a straight line, the youtube howto draw videos frustrate in a similar fashion.
To me, the advice given above (DIY) doesn't feel so much like a directive, but rather as a warning to the still-naive users who are frustrated by their mis-matched expectations and wonder why it seems so easy for everyone else. (Any parent understands this emotion well). It's not so easy for everyone else.
From me, to growing 3D enthusiasts: To get the results you probably want is probably going to take more effort than you initially expect, but once you get the various facets of scene and object manipulation under your own control (as advised above), the creative freedom you gain is infinite, and it's amazingly fulfilling and satisfying (worth it, to most of us). Just be ready to learn a lot, and to *take* control if you *expect* that control. Those who have been through this reality-check tend to resent that folks are still being sold the idea that there's a silver bullet out there that will let them easily 'make art', when beyond the available 'scene preset' products, no such bullet exists, but the lie continues to be (s/t)old. And it is a lie, but a lie as old as time.
To adjust expectations, I would roughly guess that anything you see that blows you away in the DAZ galleries, is probably the result of 500+ hours of using/learning DAZ Studio (or similar tools), and better than 4 hours of scene set-up and adjustment for even the simplest portrait. Double that if the environment is interesting. I would further estimate that any of the images by slepalex (bryce) or sir tancrede (DS) probably take multiples of that to fine tune, and these guys are clearly masters of their tools (i wanna do that when I grow up!). Again, just estimates, but look at the results! I won't even go into the learning and time it takes to get an animation that's worth watching under your belt. The good news is that like any discipline, each project make the next one easier and better, and for most of us, it's fascinating fun. You never look at the real world the same again either.
That's probably why real world-building is usually left to the gods... I'm now quite aware that there's a lot to it.
cheers,
--ms
And then there are those of us who DO want to learn how to model, texture etc etc. but simply do not have the time. I work a full time job and I do promos for Sympatico Studios. So, I do at a minimum one render a day, sometimes 2 and on a weekend maybe 3 a day. Plus work my day job, make dinner, clean the house, at least wave to my family in passing. When, exactly, am I supposed to learn all of this? Oh and lets not forget, most of those renders also involve post work, so I don't know, at least a couple hours a night or more per render. I actually do kind of resent people who assume that I am too lazy to learn how to do things or whatever. I've been here a bit over two years and am still learning how to use Daz, and improving my photoshop skills and learning new stuff about that program as well. when exactly would you like me to learn how to model? An awful lot of assumptions are made about people who don't model their own stuff, or whatever. You don't have any idea what people's circumstances are.
I am clearly far from lazy, and I am constantly learning. But modelling is not something I have time to learn at this point and I get rather offended when people imply that their is something wrong with me because I don't "do it all myself"
Hmmmm, I don't think anyone was saying that you have to do anything or learn anything more. The original post was about someone frustrated over so many different versions of the same models out as to it's hard to keep up with it, after investing in so much older content for previous models and many of us suggested that at some point, we all should want to get off the paying for everything merry-go-round and take a crack at facilitating our own needs using our own talents. No where in any of these posts was there a directive to "Learn this now in order to do that!" We would never do that...considering that the people who know how to weild 3DS Max, Maya, Cinema 4D, Softimage, and other MUCH higher ended programs pretty much look down on our community for the exact same reasons.
While it's great to say "Do you boo" and the like, the comments given were just everyone's individual experiences and suggestions. Take them with as much salt as you would like. The fact of the matter is this...if you are okay with how things are with purchasing content (and I'm sure you are since you stated you were a PA), then that's great. PAs make a living off of us buying content. However, if dabblers are voicing their frustrations over not being able to keep up with the numerous new generations of characters, after investing money heavily into previous ones, the whole "Do you boo and leave others to their desires" isn't exactly the type of advice or comment they are looking for...at least, I don't think it is.
That said, I barely know how to use these programs myself, but as hobbyists, enthusiasts, etc...if I want more from my art and become less dependent on pre-made content, especially if I want to keep using an older generation that is no longer supported by PAs, what do you think the best course of action would be?
I would like to think that's what most of us were commenting on and not trying to tell someone what to do. I'm assuming we're all adults and that being said, we have to know how to not get too worked up over comments, especially if they are not aimed at being malignant.
Look for the lesson and keep it moving. Easier said than done, I know, but at the end of the day...
I think some of you are taking this thing too personally. I think it's safe to say all of us are learning and most of us have very little time to dedicate to learning more. I hear you with the limited time for this stuff. I have a full time job as a Laboratory Systems Administrator, teach art and programming classes at the local park district, plus a ton of other stuff...Life does get in the way.
But again, as I stated earlier, I think most of us were answering the original poster's frustration about trying to keep up with newer generations of models. Suggestions were made to learn how to model simple things like accessories or clothing if you wish to continue to use the older stuff no longer supported, but that's about it.
I like what jonstark and other have said... Modelling: probably easier than you think, give it a go, and you may save some cash and not have to keep in the keep-up game.
I also completely agree with Derry's Work and IceDragonArt - there's just not enough time to do it all, and the more I know, the more I know how little I know. Nobody who sticks with 3D is lazy... It's totally incompatible with the artform!
We all do what we can, as we can. I sometimes wonder if I spent as much time learning Hex instead of shopping DAZ deals (an art form in its own right), I would probably be a Stonemason or Tomalin by now.
I think the blunt words above had honest intent based on similar frustration, lessons learned, and what now appears to be an obvious answer to the person who posted.
Like Oso3D said (roughly), I buy what can't practically create - whether by time or skill.
My content library opens up my universe. My skills allow me to refine it (or mess it up, depending...:^)
all good,
--ms
+1
This ^
When people express frustration at the current state of things
in the content market , there is nothing elitist about stating their obvious options.
Keep begging into the vacuum for Daz/PA's to "Slow down"
or Make more Male clothes or Make the next Genesis iteration 100 percent Autofit compatible with previous Gen clothing content and with no cumbersome manual refitting tutorials required.
Shut up.. or keep complaining publicly, yet still $$buy$$ into the each new generation.
Essentially starting all over every 24 months as this business model clearly would prefer.
Stop updating to the new generations
and continue to re-use your existing content.
Or scavenger hunt the after markets and freebie sites in hopes of finding something useful you may have
not gotten for your "Old "model" During the 24 month full support period.
It is Quite Ironic indeed that a Daz PA ,who at some point clearly acquired the Advanced skills to make their own Daz QA compliant Character morphs and very high quality IRay skins.
would so strongly Discourage others from making a similar a undertaking
to at least make Clothing for thier own personal use and economic relief in pursuit of
"their own desires and aims. "
Actually divamakeup did no such thing as discourage anyone from doing anything, just merely (correctly IMHO) pointed out that no one should feel forced to do anything that they are not comfortable with. There is no right or wrong way to how people go about creating their art.
I know a lot of people claim "they are only offering advice", but depending how it is phrased, such advice can frequently come across as meaning "do as I say or you are an idiot"
Clearly people are already being forced to do things they are not comfortable with to pursue their Daz Studio hobby.
The ones who post these repeated thread are not comfortable with
having to buy all new content for every new genesis figures
as the once unique promise of genesis autofit is becoming thing of the past
I would ask you to post a link to a post where people who dont model are being called " idiots."
but as such a post is a TOS violation thus will have already been correctly deleted by the moderators
No one is being commanded to do anything.
It is quite surprising to see that offering a self empowering solution
to an unpopular market paradigm, is actually viewed as offensive
by some of the very people who personally empowered themselves with advanced skills to the point of becoming $$ professional $$ DAZ content creators.
I can't help but feel, that part of folk's frustrations is that there are so many buttons out there; they click something and it works; it does what they want. There are no buttons for 'turn the image I have in my head into art', or 'turn my idea into an awesome game'.
There is no appreciation for the time spent (programming said buttons or creating the content for said buttons), be it Daz, Youtube, Amazon, and many other sites. I have a friend who creates 2D hand drawn and digital art for sale as a hobby. His prospective customers consider $10 or so more than enough for the days it can take to create what they want; to say it frustrates him is an understatement.
Indeed they should not feel forced; but... neither should folks be constantly subjected to (forced if your like) demands for stuff that doesn't sell.
It really is a case of put up with what is made, or create it oneself. It is a tough statement to dress up in this polically correct world.
If you read what I said I refered to how posts come across, not how they are explicitly written.
This seems to be getting abit sidetracked, and a bit tetchy. Please keep the discussion civil.
Okay everyone, relax. People get all up in their feelings and get to emotional when trying to have a conversation nowadays. Sometimes you have to think about the avenue and try not to take things so personal. It's hard in today's climate, but it needs to be done nevertheless.
@Havos, you can't be responsible about how someone perceives a post. Someone is going to get offended off of the most sacrine-laced, totally tactful and respectful post. There's no two ways about it.
People don't like to be shown the reality of a situation when the option offered do not suit them personally. I was one of those people who would be frustrated about having invested in lots of pre-made content and still not having everything I need. Some of my images are very elaborate and to realize I can't achieve my vision, that I have to settle for something close to it...well yeah, that's more frustrating to me.
While I still have yet to fully grasp modeling anything, like I stated in a prevous comment, at least for me, it's becoming more about the art and less about keeping up with new generations and yet another character morph or pose or clothing that look similar or looks great but is very impractical.
I remember one time I was looking for a standard priest costume...there is a ton of nun costumes out there, from standard to kinky Mother-Superior types. But priest? You either have to chose a monk-like Friar Tuck rob or something like that. It wasn't until maybe a month ago I found one that I could modify on Renderosity. It's situations like that that has driven me to consider and conquer modeling (plus I have too much content and overchoice is a real problem too...lol).
overchoice... what a *great* word for that malady. I may borrow that one!
what a strange thing for me to complain about, but too many choices - is both a blessing and a crippling curse at the same time.
--ms
Tell me about it. The struggle is real...lol!