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@maikdecker
Re: Lighting
Based on the complaints in this thread, just listing the lighting set used wouldn't be nearly enough. A user would need/want to know each setting, which option / preset in set and every parameter used for each light. Not even remotely practical for products with several promos.
I don't get the sense of entitlement some users have. They are paying for the prodcut and the time/skill needed to make same. Anything is a bonus. When's the last time a purchaser saw a list of every item used in the car or house or toaster?
The problem I have with that idea is there is a large number of items I've purchased because of a promo that used something unexpected with it to show other ways of using the actual product. If all of the PAs had to use certain sets of items in their promos, we'd lose a lot of the creativity that can really help to sell a product
Not sure why You direct that at me, 'cause I couldn't care less about what light is used for what promo. Would be nice to get to know which hair and clothes are used, as that is usually the stuff people ask about in those 1000's of posts on the forum
I'm not here for that long, but for me nothing shown in a promo - except the item the promo is about - has made me buy it (yet?). Those artistically made parts of a promo are nice to look at, but for me it's fluff or "eye candy". I'd prefer more detailed looks on the items themselves... like, when it's a building or clothes or other items to use, some basic looks with and without textures to show the item from different sides are - for me - more useful than fancy pictures that only show parts of the item. For characters/figures I'd love to see the figure as a whole, front, side and back, with little clothing, so the textures are clearly visible.
So my personal creativity would be enhanced by seeing all the other stuff than those "normal" promo-renders.
Seems people are different, right?
Not listing the items used in promotional images has one result - DAZ and the Artists who make the content are making a LOT less money. I, too, get fed up with having to search the interent for content used in promos, or asking in hopes someone on some forum with know. Every artist who is creating an image already knows what each product is and where it's available, there is no time or effort involved in knowing. How long does it take, really, to copy and paste the name of a product onto a webpage - about 3 seconds. It's not like there are hundreds of products used in each image. If you think listing something avaliable on another site is going to stop someone from buying from the othere site - think again.
Listing products in promos makes sense IMO, I support it and do so. In marketing terms I believe it's called cross-selling and this is automated in all sorts of webshops. I link to items I don't sell myself, but likewise others may link to items I sell so everybody wins really. It's "free" advertisement for everyone. We are not allowed to list products from other stores though, which makes sense. No store owner in their right mind would link to stuff in a competing store.
Refusing to buy something because items aren't listed? That does seem a little extreme though. If that's all it takes, I doubt there was much motivation to buy in the first place.
Vendors don't always know what was used in the promos that Daz chooses to use. Since sometimes the promos are not even created by the vendor. And it's a daz policy to not allow things bought from elsewhere to be listed in a promo credit. So you really cannot blame a vendor for that, they are working within the confines of their contract with daz.. Blame daz. Yell at them untill their policy changes.
I just did it for a product and it requires either remembering what I made or looking closely at my own promo or reopening one of a dozen promos to check files, and that's assuming it's easy to figure out the product name from the item name (and that's not even getting into things like morphs and poses, which aren't at all evident).
Then I have to find the product listing and clip out the proper full name.
It doesn't take 3 seconds per item. Try it yourself. Open up scenes you made over the last month and identify everything used, then go look up the product names.
Aye. I have to admit that for me the most important promo images has always been the clay render one, and that is particularly so when it is a clothing product. I started making textures for myself because I didn't want my renders to look the same as anyone elses. Then people started asking me what I had used and I told them it was my own texture. I was a vendor for a short while, over on that other site, but it was much more fun giving my textures away as freebies and so my site is full of textures mostly for Gen 4 (V4 and her ilk) but some for Gen 3. So yes I am different from most others it seems
Perfect example of what I said earlier about customers not hearing or caring what the PAs had to say on the matter over the last 3 pages, LOL I can't remember ever searching the internet in seach of an item I saw in a promo. On a few rare occasions I have contacted a vendor to ask about an item, but that has only been a couple of times.
It takes significantly longer than three seconds.
1. We are required to list the Daz3d store link if we want something listed as a promo credit. That means we have to be able to find that item's product page in the store, not just write down its name.
2. We're hunting through an oft-enormous content library (PAs tend to own a lot of products) to find where the thing came from, and the name it has in the scene is often not the name of the product (e.g. it's called SYNC Dress when the store product page is called SickleYield Naughty Cat Dress). Going from "I have this hair among the 100 items in my scene" to "this is called the Butternose Hair and it's by the artist PurplePupper" is a bit of a leap sometimes.
I also don't list every item in every promo because some of them are from Renderosity and some of them are no longer in the store and some of them are ShareCG freebies and some of them are mixtures of 10 different faces from 10 different morph sets, and the format doesn't allow me to say "used Monique 10% and this FW character 5% and my own Faces of Asia nose 75%."
Something that I've been doing ever since I started using Daz is to only use 'MY Daz 3D Library' for products I get directly from the Daz3D.com shop. I use 'My Library' for freebies I find elsewhere (or that are linked to from the freebies thread here), and I created a Renderosity Library folder for Renderosity products. This makes it a bit easier to track down the source.
So, short form, since I know that I only have Daz3D.com products in 'My Daz 3D Library', well I know I acquired it from the Daz3D shop.
Of course, if you've just been installing everything into the 'My Daz 3D Library' folder, then this won't be as obvious, but for people that are new to Daz, that may want to get their toes wet in product creation at some point, well this is a good reason to keep things separated (pre-planning).
If I ever start buying stuff from other vendors, no doubt I'll keep those separated into their own relevant 'source' folders as well. The downside, of course, is that I have stuff sorted over multiple 'master' folders, but for me that's an acceptable tradeoff There are ways you can use shortcuts, etc. to make those other products easier to find of course. This also helps if I ever have to go back and reinstall something (i.e. if it was in the 'My Daz 3D Library' folder, check the Daz install folder, etc.).
In the future I may carry this further, and break down freebies between 'commercial use allowed' and 'other stuff'. Currently I have a folder of stuff I haven't installed yet because it was personal use only or all rights reserved. To be honest, the stream of 'commercial uses OK' products from other sources has kept me more than busy already.
My point is that, if you keep the Daz store products separate from the other stuff, this can make identifying the Daz store stuff easier. And, as I pointed out before, the best time to determine a product's source is to right click on the thumbnail as you are adding it from Content Library, Smart Content, etc. and immediately 'navigate to folder'. This can give you some excellent clues as to who made it (PA's often use their vendor name as the folder name). This doesn't always work, but I'd say 75% of the time you can determine who made what fairly quickly. Also, by navigating to the folder, and the containing folders, the list of products, etc. can give you more clue.
Once you've added a product to a scene, then it's harder to figure this out, so it helps to get in the habit of taking notes as you are adding stuff, keeping an instance of notepad open to make notes as you work. That's my suggestion anyways.
As for the other stuff (from other stores), well you won't be listing those on your Daz product pages anyways. That being said, PAs that want to be particularly helpful could use their commercial products thread to mention such things: Example: I grabbed the Roxx Hair from Rendo. That should be enough info for most people to track it down.
And, as I pointed out before, if you aren't checking the usage rights for stuff bought elsewhere, well you ARE using it for a commercial use if you are using it in promos. Sure you can roll the dice, and odds are low that you'll get called out on it if you inadvertently use something that is restricted from such a use, but why take the chance at all?
It all comes down to being willing to take a little extra time so that you can pay it forward. And it may save you time down the road, if you are the type that answers questions about products used after the fact.
And if this is too much of a bother for you, well we've heard from those that think it's too much of a bother already.
I'm just pointing out suggestions for those that do take the time, r.e. how you can make this task easier. Yeah, it'll take longer than 3 seconds, but usually you can figure out the critical info in a minute or less if you make notes as you work. Then you can use Google later (when you are packaging your product for submission) to find the links. It's a much bigger pain to open your scene .duf after the fact and try to figure it out then, as it won't be immediately obvious precisely which folders things came from.
And if for some reason you can't find the associated product page when you go to looking for it later using Google, etc. (say the product was subsequently pulled from Daz store), well at least you tried. In these instances, a quick mention in your commercial product thread can't hurt. Who knows, maybe someone else will spot the page for you (if still being actively sold) if you missed it somehow.
And again, if some of the assets you are using are custom morph mixes and/or custom assets that aren't available for sale, just say so in your commercial products thread (i.e. include in your OP for the product thread: The character(s) used in my promo pic is a custom character that is not available for sale). It'll help in some cases, in those cases people will appreciate you letting them know, as you may have just saved them from a lot of fruitless Googling...
I'm presently putting my new package together. I was trying to set up a promo and couldn't remember the name of the hair I wanted. I kept looking and looking and finally broke down and went to my product library to hunt it down, couldn't find it. Looked several times again till I found it and then realized the reason I couldn't find in Studio was that I was sure it was for G3 and it was for G2. I still wasn't done, cuz then I had to figure out what mapped library it was in. Now that happens to me more often than not. Sometimes after I've done the render, I've decided, no, I think I want a different one, this didn't have adjustment morphs to do what I wanted. If I'm lucky, I find it right away. I'm not always so lucky. Plus, if the hair doesn't look quite how I like, I'll paint on it, or paint things out, cuz, after all, I'm not selling the hair. Only things I don't post work are the actual items for sale. So even if I give you everything used, you still may see it differently for your own use.
Again, I do try to list what I can remember, but I think too many think it should be easy to list everything. It's just not and until you've had to do what we do, you can only refuse to understand. Thankfully, many others do understand and we appreciate that understanding. This is also a unique business in which customers are able to interact with the creators. Most PAs are willing to try to list products used. I think most who have responded, do. That should be enough.
I do have a question, though. Since DazO's, to the best of my knowledge, don't list what is used, does that mean you don't buy the figures or other DazO items?
I was just looking at the Giant Sized Minotaur 6, and came across this in the promo images...
This was really above and beyond, and quite nice to see. Nice job Denki Gaka!