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Seems to me that the DAZ store is just using 'DForce' as a shorthand for 'DForce-compatible'. It should be our worst problem!
What would you expect it to mean?
I think some people interpret it as dForce ONLY.
Which makes sense. There are a lot of products with Iray in the name that only work with Iray.
People who frequent the forums may know that clothing labeled dForce in the Daz store must also be rigged, but what about those who don't? Perhaps Daz should have another dForce products sale, with emphasis on the rigging, and send out an email that touts the conforming aspect of the items on sale. I wonder how many sales were lost to people who, like the OP, thought those items only worked with dForce.
Then again, if there are going to be products in the store, like the Classic Long Hair with dForce for G8F, that only work with dForce, perhaps it's time to remove dForce from the title of conforming clothing, or any other product which works with or without dForce. Then use the first line/paragraph of the Details to say something like, "The Peasant Dress for Genesis 8 Female(s) is both conforming clothing and dForce Compliant."
Without "dForce" in the name of the product, I wonder how many more people will click through to the product page?
...so as for rendering, GPU memory is a limitation?
I don;t know what it is, but in the GPU if I do something stupid like leave the long hair on (not dynamic) while simulating a dress, halfway through it throws and error. And once it does, the GPU cannot be used anymore until you restart Studio. CPU still works though. So it's not a calculation issue, I speculate memory (too many springs to hold in memory ... but how does it even get halfway through the sim them?) But is it memory or something else? I don't know. I have a 6GB GTX 1060 card, for what it's worth.
...I would think 6 GB would be enough to run the sim. Not sure why having long hair that has not been set up for dForce in the scene (and if the character is in a static pose) that would affect the process as it isn't rendering.
If VRAM is the issue, then those 7950s I have won't work as they only have 3GB
It's not necessarily a static pose. And the hair is a collision item, lots of strands that intersect the mesh or at least contact it thruogh the sim. Making it invisible makes it not part of the sim, which is the goal. One other thing I've done is make a geomety shell of stuff I want in the scene and copy all the materials to it, then turn off visibility in the original. That way even if I leave the shell on it doesnt affect the sim and so it's one less step to worrk about.
My issue could just be an issue with my card too. It works fine for IRAY, maybe in the cloth sim there's some OpenCL issue that I need a driver update for or something. Like I said, I don't know. However nobody else seems to mirror this issue so it feels like it may be just me, and that implies hardware or driver.
Displacement in Iray isn't very effective. You have to really subd the mesh for it to work well. I get results using a geometry shell and mesh offset myself.
...sounds like Daz still needs to fix that issue with freeing up GPU memory as well. Not looking forward to having to save, close the scene and programme, the reopen/reload everything again every time I do a render test on the GPU.
I never close Studio between renders or scene setup. Once I have closed a render window, the GPU memory usage returns to the pre-render value. I can change parts in the scene (e.g. different hair, clothing, etc) and watch the GPU memory change proportional to the change (can be more or less).
I never have to close studio with GPU issues over IRAY. It's just dForce. Sometimes during a dForce cloth sim on GPU, it errors out and then won't run anymore sims unless I switch to CPU or close Studio and restart it.
I'm not trying to scare anyone away from dForce. It feels like a problem just on my rig. Nobody else has ever complained about this issue but me, to my knowledge. So bear that in mind.
No, you are not alone. When there is an error in simulation (error message pops up, not an explosion), DS has to be restarted for me, too. I think I have read here in the forum that it is a known issue.
That's an issue I have as well. About 1 time in 10 I get an error message and the sim stops before it's done. I then have to exit out and restart Daz Studio before I can get dForce to start working again. That's why when I work with dForce I save the scene quickly and often. lol
Well what do you know, I'm not alone. Well, in a way it's good because if it's not a hardware issue with just me then DAZ should fix it at some point.
I guess I am lucky or haven't been using dforce enough. So far have had no issues with dforce, exploding or any other (knock on wood!!). It's funny, I am really used to dynamics, so i have been testing some of my goto clothing objects to see how they do in both situations and the results are always very different.with the dynamics winning out. But at least now any user can add dforce properties to any outfit and get dynamic like properties without Optitex or a 3rd party plugin.
...sounds more like a bug in the dForce routine which is good reason to hold off in my book. Crikey If I had to run sims on the CPU I'd get very little else done.
If one do buy clothing for Dforce without planning/being able to use it for dForce you have to be aware it might not have movement morphs at all. It's rigged yes, it do have Adjustment morphs, but far too many of the clothing don't have Any, or only very Little, movement morphs. Todays releases included :( I had wanted to buy one of those outfits, but there's no reason for me to even bother. Since I won't be able to move the skirt part on it or anything, as there's no movement morphs included (according to product page, atleast none that I can find there) :(
Seems this opens a completely new field for PAs to make products: Movement Morphs for dFoced clothes, for people that can't or won't use dForce...
Get a dForce clothes set. Get a Pose package. Use dForce for the clothes for each pose available. Make morphs (material settings?) from the result. Sell (or give away for free..) the Morphs.
As neither any part from the clothes or poses involved would be included in the package, this should not cause any copyright matters, right?
Oh.. and there's examples for stuff like that on the DAz shop already... like the MFD Matching Morphs sets.
or of course it could be an issue with the content, one that perhaps doesn't show up in every simulation run.
Might be something that would sell, though it wouldn't help if someone want to make a scene where a skirt or coat was flowingi n the wind, regardless of what pose the character was in. I'm just sad as more and more clothing (dForce ones that is) that I see come out, is missing any kind of movement morphs, more so as it is clothes I would have loved to buy if I only could actually use them :(
Can NEVER have too much dforce. AWESOME.
+1
i don't trust it will work as conforming.
I agree. After the initial issues I was having months ago (Windows continuously reinstalling GPU drivers) dForce has worked to my satisfaction. I've had very few issues with converting older conforming clothing or using the dForce specific stuff. The buttons, laces and similar stuff, I try to fix in Photoshop or just don't use them. Very pleased with the results I get.
Buttons, bows and such can get pretty distorted with conforming clothes, as well. It's a lot more work, but I've been known to turn those items into separate props and put them back in place using a Rigid Follow Node, (created in the Geometry Editor.) The upside is, if I save them as assets, I can use them on other things, too.
As we're taking about dForce here, I'd also like to point out, there are some nice updates to dForce in the latest DS beta. My last effort caused the side edges of a wrap-around skirt to intersect, but there was no explosion! Yay!. (If you're interested in what I did, you can read about it here.)
Why? What's wrong with dForce?
1) Why? A misunderstanding; Daz requires dForce clothing to also be rigged to the same extent it would be if it weren't dForce Compliant.
2) There's nothing wrong with dForce per se. But if the clothing weren't also rigged, (which it is if it's sold at Daz,) one would only be able to use it by using dForce. And there are still a lot folks using DS with computers that are "sluggish" with things like Iray and dForce.
I'm not sure if all these rigged dForce clothing items have the level of JCMs that we've come to expect with a well rigged clothing item, though. I think some vendors are relying on dForce to adjust to the bone rotations, instead of creating JCMs to handle it. I don't know what Daz requires for JCMs.
As I'm not a PA, I don't know exactly what Daz is requiring for dForce compliant clothing items, but here are a couple of quotes from Richard, from the dForce thread stickied to the top of The Commons forums:
It sounds to me like Daz has the same rigging standards for dForce compliant clothing as it has for all clothing items. But you're right! We don't know for sure, (unless/until one of the mods comes in and verifies that the rigging requirements are the same.)