Hitting us over the head with Dforce

marble · May 2018

Barzoff said:

wolf359 said:

"Well, I found that Optitex is more unpredictable and above all, more unstable than dForce."

Unstable in what way??
I tried to create an optitex "explosion" by intentionally making this animation with major body & cloth intersections
I totally buggered the cloth of course, but Zero explosions

I dont recommend attempting this with "IEDforce"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xjyaiuPLes0eYlPKv37SZyWvEsl23ETi

I used Optitex a lot and have several dynamic clothes, some I bought, some I got for free on Optitex site. Here is the problem I got: some clothes make DAZ Studio crashing when I load them and some don't. Fortunately, I found that if I load these problematic clothes first and then the character, DS doesn't crash. Don't ask me why. The artist in me doesn't wonder.

Oddly, all the free Optitex clothes I have never make DS crashing. Go figure.

I think my biggest problem with Optitex is that it doesn't scale. I believe there is some workaround involving scaling the rest of the scene so that the cloth can remain its original scale.

AllenArt · May 2018

L'Adair said:

marble said:

marble said:

However, I had odd results when trying to merge the sub-scene back into the original scene - often the simulation was completely reset and I had to start over within the scene.

Which raises another question: is it possible to save a scene and retain the simulation so that it is still draped when the scene is re-loaded?

Richard Haseltine said:

Yes, but remember that it represents a large chunk of data that is embedded in the file, so the scene will take mroe disc space.

I frequently set up elements of a scene in separate files, and then merge them into the final scene. Sometimes the files include dForced items as well. I almost always use the Animated Timeline for draping, and if there are multiple files with dForce items, I set the total frame count to the same in all files.

However, there is a better way, and I've started using it all the time. Once you have completed your simulation and are happy with the drape, create a morph of the drape and save the file. When you merge the file into the main scene, the morph will merge with it. And because the drape is now a morph, you don't have to worry about losing the drape. You can also save those morphs as Morph Assets, if they are something you may want to use again.

Here are instructions I posted, modified from the step-by-step Richard posted for me: Turning Your Perfect Simulation Into A Morph (I still refer to this post often.)

I have no idea how much the morphs add to the file size, but I suspect it is less than the "chunk of data" Richard mentions above.

Like others, I find autofit to be unpredictable, to say the least! I have several V4 items I purchased when I was first getting started, naively believing they would look the same on G2F as they did on V4 with autofit, having purchased a product for that purpose. I was wrong. This was years before dForce.

I appreciate Daz's requirement that dForce clothing sold at Daz must include rigging, at least to the extend the same clothing type would have rigging without dForce. I have several long dresses that are pre-dForce that do not use rigging on the skirt, relying on morphs instead. It sounds like some PAs are still doing that with dForce dresses, with fewer morphs, perhaps.

If you purchase a dress like that, and find the skirt is useless without using dForce due to a lack of movement morphs, return the item for a refund and be sure to state it's because of the lack of morphs, making the dress unusable as rigged clothing. PAs will never know this is a problem if you don't return their products and state this is why.

marble said:
I think - though I may be corrected - that compitibility only works G3 -> G8 with clothing, not G8 -> G3.

For autofit to work from G8 to G3, you'll need G8 clones for G3. You can create your own using instructions from Redz. The link is posted in the Mprphs from G3 to G8 thread, but here's the link copied from Singular Blues signature: Redz's Tutorial for Adding Clones to G8F

I've used this to create clones both directions, and prefer my own clones created using this tutorial to those provided by the G8 Starter Essentials. (There is one typo in my copy. If it hasn't been fixed, it will be where you're asked to delete a figure from the scene, but it's the wrong figure. It should be obvious as it's asking you to delete the figure you need to create the clone.)

That said, I prefer using Sy's tutorial, linked earlier in this thread, to convert clothing from G8 to G3, or G3 to G8, with no need for autofit.

Wait, I thought we could freeze a simulation? Wouldn't that keep it from re-simulating when something else is being simulated? It's a one-click button on the parameters tab of the simulated item. No hoop-jumping ;)

Laurie

AnotherUserName · May 2018

marble said:

Barzoff said:

wolf359 said:

"Well, I found that Optitex is more unpredictable and above all, more unstable than dForce."

Unstable in what way??
I tried to create an optitex "explosion" by intentionally making this animation with major body & cloth intersections
I totally buggered the cloth of course, but Zero explosions

I dont recommend attempting this with "IEDforce"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xjyaiuPLes0eYlPKv37SZyWvEsl23ETi

I used Optitex a lot and have several dynamic clothes, some I bought, some I got for free on Optitex site. Here is the problem I got: some clothes make DAZ Studio crashing when I load them and some don't. Fortunately, I found that if I load these problematic clothes first and then the character, DS doesn't crash. Don't ask me why. The artist in me doesn't wonder.

Oddly, all the free Optitex clothes I have never make DS crashing. Go figure.

I think my biggest problem with Optitex is that it doesn't scale. I believe there is some workaround involving scaling the rest of the scene so that the cloth can remain its original scale.

I think you could scale optitex if I remember correctly. You just had to scale it part by part. I used to scale things like the chest and arms parts to get items to fit better. My biggest problem with optitex was that it would clear if you made any changes to the item after simulating. Seriously frustrating!

marble · May 2018

AnotherUserName said:

marble said:

Barzoff said:

wolf359 said:

"Well, I found that Optitex is more unpredictable and above all, more unstable than dForce."

Unstable in what way??
I tried to create an optitex "explosion" by intentionally making this animation with major body & cloth intersections
I totally buggered the cloth of course, but Zero explosions

I dont recommend attempting this with "IEDforce"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xjyaiuPLes0eYlPKv37SZyWvEsl23ETi

I used Optitex a lot and have several dynamic clothes, some I bought, some I got for free on Optitex site. Here is the problem I got: some clothes make DAZ Studio crashing when I load them and some don't. Fortunately, I found that if I load these problematic clothes first and then the character, DS doesn't crash. Don't ask me why. The artist in me doesn't wonder.

Oddly, all the free Optitex clothes I have never make DS crashing. Go figure.

I think my biggest problem with Optitex is that it doesn't scale. I believe there is some workaround involving scaling the rest of the scene so that the cloth can remain its original scale.

I think you could scale optitex if I remember correctly. You just had to scale it part by part. I used to scale things like the chest and arms parts to get items to fit better. My biggest problem with optitex was that it would clear if you made any changes to the item after simulating. Seriously frustrating!

You might be correct but I could have sworn I tried to scale the one-piece tablecloth to the size of a bed and it returned to its original scale during the drape. As for the drape reset when moving a limb ... what a PITA!

AllenArt · May 2018

AnotherUserName said:

marble said:

Barzoff said:

wolf359 said:

"Well, I found that Optitex is more unpredictable and above all, more unstable than dForce."

Unstable in what way??
I tried to create an optitex "explosion" by intentionally making this animation with major body & cloth intersections
I totally buggered the cloth of course, but Zero explosions

I dont recommend attempting this with "IEDforce"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xjyaiuPLes0eYlPKv37SZyWvEsl23ETi

I used Optitex a lot and have several dynamic clothes, some I bought, some I got for free on Optitex site. Here is the problem I got: some clothes make DAZ Studio crashing when I load them and some don't. Fortunately, I found that if I load these problematic clothes first and then the character, DS doesn't crash. Don't ask me why. The artist in me doesn't wonder.

Oddly, all the free Optitex clothes I have never make DS crashing. Go figure.

I think my biggest problem with Optitex is that it doesn't scale. I believe there is some workaround involving scaling the rest of the scene so that the cloth can remain its original scale.

I think you could scale optitex if I remember correctly. You just had to scale it part by part. I used to scale things like the chest and arms parts to get items to fit better. My biggest problem with optitex was that it would clear if you made any changes to the item after simulating. Seriously frustrating!

Use the timeline and make sure you're on your last frame when you scale, or at least the ending pose frame.

Laurie

barbult · May 2018

AllenArt said:

L'Adair said:

marble said:

marble said:

However, I had odd results when trying to merge the sub-scene back into the original scene - often the simulation was completely reset and I had to start over within the scene.

Which raises another question: is it possible to save a scene and retain the simulation so that it is still draped when the scene is re-loaded?

Richard Haseltine said:

Yes, but remember that it represents a large chunk of data that is embedded in the file, so the scene will take mroe disc space.

I frequently set up elements of a scene in separate files, and then merge them into the final scene. Sometimes the files include dForced items as well. I almost always use the Animated Timeline for draping, and if there are multiple files with dForce items, I set the total frame count to the same in all files.

However, there is a better way, and I've started using it all the time. Once you have completed your simulation and are happy with the drape, create a morph of the drape and save the file. When you merge the file into the main scene, the morph will merge with it. And because the drape is now a morph, you don't have to worry about losing the drape. You can also save those morphs as Morph Assets, if they are something you may want to use again.

Here are instructions I posted, modified from the step-by-step Richard posted for me: Turning Your Perfect Simulation Into A Morph (I still refer to this post often.)

I have no idea how much the morphs add to the file size, but I suspect it is less than the "chunk of data" Richard mentions above.

Like others, I find autofit to be unpredictable, to say the least! I have several V4 items I purchased when I was first getting started, naively believing they would look the same on G2F as they did on V4 with autofit, having purchased a product for that purpose. I was wrong. This was years before dForce.

I appreciate Daz's requirement that dForce clothing sold at Daz must include rigging, at least to the extend the same clothing type would have rigging without dForce. I have several long dresses that are pre-dForce that do not use rigging on the skirt, relying on morphs instead. It sounds like some PAs are still doing that with dForce dresses, with fewer morphs, perhaps.

If you purchase a dress like that, and find the skirt is useless without using dForce due to a lack of movement morphs, return the item for a refund and be sure to state it's because of the lack of morphs, making the dress unusable as rigged clothing. PAs will never know this is a problem if you don't return their products and state this is why.

marble said:
I think - though I may be corrected - that compitibility only works G3 -> G8 with clothing, not G8 -> G3.

For autofit to work from G8 to G3, you'll need G8 clones for G3. You can create your own using instructions from Redz. The link is posted in the Mprphs from G3 to G8 thread, but here's the link copied from Singular Blues signature: Redz's Tutorial for Adding Clones to G8F

I've used this to create clones both directions, and prefer my own clones created using this tutorial to those provided by the G8 Starter Essentials. (There is one typo in my copy. If it hasn't been fixed, it will be where you're asked to delete a figure from the scene, but it's the wrong figure. It should be obvious as it's asking you to delete the figure you need to create the clone.)

That said, I prefer using Sy's tutorial, linked earlier in this thread, to convert clothing from G8 to G3, or G3 to G8, with no need for autofit.

Wait, I thought we could freeze a simulation? Wouldn't that keep it from re-simulating when something else is being simulated? It's a one-click button on the parameters tab of the simulated item. No hoop-jumping ;)

Laurie

Correct. Just don't hit the clear button on the simulation page. That will clear even frozen simulations.

AllenArt · May 2018

barbult said:

AllenArt said:

L'Adair said:

marble said:

marble said:

However, I had odd results when trying to merge the sub-scene back into the original scene - often the simulation was completely reset and I had to start over within the scene.

Which raises another question: is it possible to save a scene and retain the simulation so that it is still draped when the scene is re-loaded?

Richard Haseltine said:

Yes, but remember that it represents a large chunk of data that is embedded in the file, so the scene will take mroe disc space.

I frequently set up elements of a scene in separate files, and then merge them into the final scene. Sometimes the files include dForced items as well. I almost always use the Animated Timeline for draping, and if there are multiple files with dForce items, I set the total frame count to the same in all files.

However, there is a better way, and I've started using it all the time. Once you have completed your simulation and are happy with the drape, create a morph of the drape and save the file. When you merge the file into the main scene, the morph will merge with it. And because the drape is now a morph, you don't have to worry about losing the drape. You can also save those morphs as Morph Assets, if they are something you may want to use again.

Here are instructions I posted, modified from the step-by-step Richard posted for me: Turning Your Perfect Simulation Into A Morph (I still refer to this post often.)

I have no idea how much the morphs add to the file size, but I suspect it is less than the "chunk of data" Richard mentions above.

Like others, I find autofit to be unpredictable, to say the least! I have several V4 items I purchased when I was first getting started, naively believing they would look the same on G2F as they did on V4 with autofit, having purchased a product for that purpose. I was wrong. This was years before dForce.

I appreciate Daz's requirement that dForce clothing sold at Daz must include rigging, at least to the extend the same clothing type would have rigging without dForce. I have several long dresses that are pre-dForce that do not use rigging on the skirt, relying on morphs instead. It sounds like some PAs are still doing that with dForce dresses, with fewer morphs, perhaps.

If you purchase a dress like that, and find the skirt is useless without using dForce due to a lack of movement morphs, return the item for a refund and be sure to state it's because of the lack of morphs, making the dress unusable as rigged clothing. PAs will never know this is a problem if you don't return their products and state this is why.

marble said:
I think - though I may be corrected - that compitibility only works G3 -> G8 with clothing, not G8 -> G3.

For autofit to work from G8 to G3, you'll need G8 clones for G3. You can create your own using instructions from Redz. The link is posted in the Mprphs from G3 to G8 thread, but here's the link copied from Singular Blues signature: Redz's Tutorial for Adding Clones to G8F

I've used this to create clones both directions, and prefer my own clones created using this tutorial to those provided by the G8 Starter Essentials. (There is one typo in my copy. If it hasn't been fixed, it will be where you're asked to delete a figure from the scene, but it's the wrong figure. It should be obvious as it's asking you to delete the figure you need to create the clone.)

That said, I prefer using Sy's tutorial, linked earlier in this thread, to convert clothing from G8 to G3, or G3 to G8, with no need for autofit.

Wait, I thought we could freeze a simulation? Wouldn't that keep it from re-simulating when something else is being simulated? It's a one-click button on the parameters tab of the simulated item. No hoop-jumping ;)

Laurie

Correct. Just don't hit the clear button on the simulation page. That will clear even frozen simulations.

Hmm...they'll need to fix that. Theortically the only thing that should be cleared is the item you have selected when you press the "Clear" button ;). Oh, well...it's young tech and will improve.

Laurie

barbult · May 2018

AllenArt said:

barbult said:

AllenArt said:

L'Adair said:

marble said:

marble said:

However, I had odd results when trying to merge the sub-scene back into the original scene - often the simulation was completely reset and I had to start over within the scene.

Which raises another question: is it possible to save a scene and retain the simulation so that it is still draped when the scene is re-loaded?

Richard Haseltine said:

Yes, but remember that it represents a large chunk of data that is embedded in the file, so the scene will take mroe disc space.

I frequently set up elements of a scene in separate files, and then merge them into the final scene. Sometimes the files include dForced items as well. I almost always use the Animated Timeline for draping, and if there are multiple files with dForce items, I set the total frame count to the same in all files.

However, there is a better way, and I've started using it all the time. Once you have completed your simulation and are happy with the drape, create a morph of the drape and save the file. When you merge the file into the main scene, the morph will merge with it. And because the drape is now a morph, you don't have to worry about losing the drape. You can also save those morphs as Morph Assets, if they are something you may want to use again.

Here are instructions I posted, modified from the step-by-step Richard posted for me: Turning Your Perfect Simulation Into A Morph (I still refer to this post often.)

I have no idea how much the morphs add to the file size, but I suspect it is less than the "chunk of data" Richard mentions above.

Like others, I find autofit to be unpredictable, to say the least! I have several V4 items I purchased when I was first getting started, naively believing they would look the same on G2F as they did on V4 with autofit, having purchased a product for that purpose. I was wrong. This was years before dForce.

I appreciate Daz's requirement that dForce clothing sold at Daz must include rigging, at least to the extend the same clothing type would have rigging without dForce. I have several long dresses that are pre-dForce that do not use rigging on the skirt, relying on morphs instead. It sounds like some PAs are still doing that with dForce dresses, with fewer morphs, perhaps.

If you purchase a dress like that, and find the skirt is useless without using dForce due to a lack of movement morphs, return the item for a refund and be sure to state it's because of the lack of morphs, making the dress unusable as rigged clothing. PAs will never know this is a problem if you don't return their products and state this is why.

marble said:
I think - though I may be corrected - that compitibility only works G3 -> G8 with clothing, not G8 -> G3.

For autofit to work from G8 to G3, you'll need G8 clones for G3. You can create your own using instructions from Redz. The link is posted in the Mprphs from G3 to G8 thread, but here's the link copied from Singular Blues signature: Redz's Tutorial for Adding Clones to G8F

I've used this to create clones both directions, and prefer my own clones created using this tutorial to those provided by the G8 Starter Essentials. (There is one typo in my copy. If it hasn't been fixed, it will be where you're asked to delete a figure from the scene, but it's the wrong figure. It should be obvious as it's asking you to delete the figure you need to create the clone.)

That said, I prefer using Sy's tutorial, linked earlier in this thread, to convert clothing from G8 to G3, or G3 to G8, with no need for autofit.

Wait, I thought we could freeze a simulation? Wouldn't that keep it from re-simulating when something else is being simulated? It's a one-click button on the parameters tab of the simulated item. No hoop-jumping ;)

Laurie

Correct. Just don't hit the clear button on the simulation page. That will clear even frozen simulations.

Hmm...they'll need to fix that. Theortically the only thing that should be cleared is the item you have selected when you press the "Clear" button ;). Oh, well...it's young tech and will improve.

Laurie

Well, I'm pretty sure about that behavior, but I could be wrong. I've tried hard to use that clear button lately when items are frozen. Does it seem to work differently for you?

kyoto kid · May 2018

...I think I'm just going to stay with rigged clothing. Aave Nainen at least provides a lot of nice movement, pose, and shaping morphs with her designs.

L'Adair · May 2018

AllenArt said:

L'Adair said:

marble said:

marble said:

However, I had odd results when trying to merge the sub-scene back into the original scene - often the simulation was completely reset and I had to start over within the scene.

Which raises another question: is it possible to save a scene and retain the simulation so that it is still draped when the scene is re-loaded?

Richard Haseltine said:

Yes, but remember that it represents a large chunk of data that is embedded in the file, so the scene will take mroe disc space.

I frequently set up elements of a scene in separate files, and then merge them into the final scene. Sometimes the files include dForced items as well. I almost always use the Animated Timeline for draping, and if there are multiple files with dForce items, I set the total frame count to the same in all files.

However, there is a better way, and I've started using it all the time. Once you have completed your simulation and are happy with the drape, create a morph of the drape and save the file. When you merge the file into the main scene, the morph will merge with it. And because the drape is now a morph, you don't have to worry about losing the drape. You can also save those morphs as Morph Assets, if they are something you may want to use again.

Here are instructions I posted, modified from the step-by-step Richard posted for me: Turning Your Perfect Simulation Into A Morph (I still refer to this post often.)

I have no idea how much the morphs add to the file size, but I suspect it is less than the "chunk of data" Richard mentions above.

Wait, I thought we could freeze a simulation? Wouldn't that keep it from re-simulating when something else is being simulated? It's a one-click button on the parameters tab of the simulated item. No hoop-jumping ;)

Laurie

As @barbult said, the "Clear" button in Simulation Settings will clear all the simulations. There is a menu item for clearing the selected item, but the easiest thing to do, imo, is to follow @RGcincy's instructions and create a Short-cut Key to Clear Simulation on Selected Item(s).

Herald of Fire · May 2018

DForce has its ups and downs, especially when objects explode on you, but on the whole I've been quite pleased. You do have to take a little extra care to ensure none of the items interesect before running a simulation, but once that's done it tends to be okay. Even if you don't use the DForce tab, the outfits are still fully rigged so can be used as normal. Recently picked up DForce hair, and it looks amazing, though it took ages to simulate. I did get one explosion, since it can be difficult to prevent intersection entirely, but the results speak for themselves.

nicstt · May 2018

AllenArt said:

At least we can "fake" the look of thickness with a very small push modifier setting.

Laurie

Oh? How? Don't think i've ever looked at the push modifier.

Richard Haseltine · May 2018

marble said:

Barzoff said:

wolf359 said:

"Well, I found that Optitex is more unpredictable and above all, more unstable than dForce."

Unstable in what way??
I tried to create an optitex "explosion" by intentionally making this animation with major body & cloth intersections
I totally buggered the cloth of course, but Zero explosions

I dont recommend attempting this with "IEDforce"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xjyaiuPLes0eYlPKv37SZyWvEsl23ETi

I used Optitex a lot and have several dynamic clothes, some I bought, some I got for free on Optitex site. Here is the problem I got: some clothes make DAZ Studio crashing when I load them and some don't. Fortunately, I found that if I load these problematic clothes first and then the character, DS doesn't crash. Don't ask me why. The artist in me doesn't wonder.

Oddly, all the free Optitex clothes I have never make DS crashing. Go figure.

I think my biggest problem with Optitex is that it doesn't scale. I believe there is some workaround involving scaling the rest of the scene so that the cloth can remain its original scale.

With OptiTex the trick is to scale everything else to match the clothing, rather than vice versa, do the drape, then - if you need to reset the basic scaling - freeze it (or export to OBJ and reimport as a prop) and scale the resultant static mesh.

Richard Haseltine · May 2018

sapat said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Ruphuss said:

is there any progress in the development with dforce ?

or will it be in status quo for ever now

there were no update i think for long

Daz doesn't usually issue prior announcements of new features, but you can keep an eye on the Change log for hints http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#private_channel

How is an update to dforce and Iray going to affect ppl like me with an older card? I only have an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (192 bit)(2GB dedicated). I currently use dforce with rare issues except once in a while DS will shut down. And for the most part, I use Iray pretty well for a lot of things, but for things with heavy weight textures it will switch to CPU. Buying a new card isn't an option right now.

dForce uses OpenCL, not CUDA, so it isn't going to suffer from deprecated suport for older cards. Of course more complex items may still leave you unable to run sims at an acceptable speed, but it isn't the same situation as with Iray. (Or at least, I hope not - 750Ti here.)

nicstt · May 2018

Taoz said:

nicstt said:

The only issue I have now, is lack of thickness on cloth, especially at the edges where this is litterally true; cloth is NOT infinitely thin. It is also perfectly straight - again cloth has variations, that give subtle variations on even silk-like materials which are very fine.

I've noticed this as well with a lot of dForce clothing (usually not buying it in that case). Is that because it's difficult to make thick edges with dForce or does it cause problems when draping or what?

No, but, I've found that one needs to resolve the depth issue when it misbehaves. This (the swimsuit) works well, although the straps haven't kept quite as much depth as the main parts; I'm currently working on a skirt. I'll probably look at underwear and a top next. I'm also working on a character, and juggling a still newish job - so progress is slow.

For those curious: meet Joxodie - Xoxo skin textures tweaked; 25% Edie (changed: Head to 21%; Body to 55%); 10% TJ Head

sapat · May 2018

Richard Haseltine said:

sapat said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Ruphuss said:

is there any progress in the development with dforce ?

or will it be in status quo for ever now

there were no update i think for long

Daz doesn't usually issue prior announcements of new features, but you can keep an eye on the Change log for hints http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#private_channel

How is an update to dforce and Iray going to affect ppl like me with an older card? I only have an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (192 bit)(2GB dedicated). I currently use dforce with rare issues except once in a while DS will shut down. And for the most part, I use Iray pretty well for a lot of things, but for things with heavy weight textures it will switch to CPU. Buying a new card isn't an option right now.

dForce uses OpenCL, not CUDA, so it isn't going to suffer from deprecated suport for older cards. Of course more complex items may still leave you unable to run sims at an acceptable speed, but it isn't the same situation as with Iray. (Or at least, I hope not - 750Ti here.)

That's encouraging, thanks Richard.

N-RArts · May 2018

I have a frosty relationship with dForce.

I've heard that you can get Dynamic (Poser) clothing to work with dForce. I've tried, but I can't work out what it is that I'm doing wrong. I've even used dForce master presets.

I was going to ask for some help, but seeing that the item is from Rendo, I didn't think it'd be allowed. So, I've just stuck with the renders and scenes that I've been doing before the arrival of dForce.

Masterstroke · May 2018

Maybe it is to early to judge on dforce, but I am quite o.k. with it, knowing it is not full developed yet. Looking foreward to future builds.

Taoz · May 2018

nicstt said:

Taoz said:

nicstt said:

The only issue I have now, is lack of thickness on cloth, especially at the edges where this is litterally true; cloth is NOT infinitely thin. It is also perfectly straight - again cloth has variations, that give subtle variations on even silk-like materials which are very fine.

I've noticed this as well with a lot of dForce clothing (usually not buying it in that case). Is that because it's difficult to make thick edges with dForce or does it cause problems when draping or what?

No, but, I've found that one needs to resolve the depth issue when it misbehaves. This (the swimsuit) works well, although the straps haven't kept quite as much depth as the main parts; I'm currently working on a skirt. I'll probably look at underwear and a top next. I'm also working on a character, and juggling a still newish job - so progress is slow.

OK. How do you make the thickness - a thin row of polygons on the edge?

wolf359 · May 2018

"Oh? How? Don't think i've ever looked at the push modifier."

Hi just be aware that the"push modifier" merely inflates the clothing
based on an offset parameter dial.

Your cloth edges will still be infinitely thin and will look quite fake in any render where a cloth edge is facing the camera.

If you render only stills it may be worth a quick trip to hexagon as it has
a trues mesh thickening function,
not sure how it affects UVs though but probably worth investigating
nevertheless.

I bake my optitex sims to animated MDD files and render them in C4D
where we have a nondestructive cloth thickener for this purpose.

AllenArt · May 2018

wolf359 said:

"Oh? How? Don't think i've ever looked at the push modifier."

Hi just be aware that the"push modifier" merely inflates the clothing
based on an offset parameter dial.

Your cloth edges will still be infinitely thin and will look quite fake in any render where a cloth edge is facing the camera.

If you render only stills it may be worth a quick trip to hexagon as it has
a trues mesh thickening function,
not sure how it affects UVs though but probably worth investigating
nevertheless.

I bake my optitex sims to animated MDD files and render them in C4D
where we have a nondestructive cloth thickener for this purpose.

But it doesn't. It leaves a small sort of "lip" around the edges of anything that has the modifier, albeit it can be kind of inconsistent, from far away it can look like a little bit of thickness (most fabrics only need a little bit). It's not at all a perfect solution, but until we can add thickness, it's all we've got.

Laurie

nicstt · May 2018

Taoz said:

nicstt said:

Taoz said:

nicstt said:

The only issue I have now, is lack of thickness on cloth, especially at the edges where this is litterally true; cloth is NOT infinitely thin. It is also perfectly straight - again cloth has variations, that give subtle variations on even silk-like materials which are very fine.

I've noticed this as well with a lot of dForce clothing (usually not buying it in that case). Is that because it's difficult to make thick edges with dForce or does it cause problems when draping or what?

No, but, I've found that one needs to resolve the depth issue when it misbehaves. This (the swimsuit) works well, although the straps haven't kept quite as much depth as the main parts; I'm currently working on a skirt. I'll probably look at underwear and a top next. I'm also working on a character, and juggling a still newish job - so progress is slow.

OK. How do you make the thickness - a thin row of polygons on the edge?

That can work, but it depends on the the pose, morphs and sometimes lighting and camera angle. It gets to be an issue holding the thin layer in place, as it is only thin so liable to move about.

kyoto kid · May 2018

Richard Haseltine said:

sapat said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Ruphuss said:

is there any progress in the development with dforce ?

or will it be in status quo for ever now

there were no update i think for long

Daz doesn't usually issue prior announcements of new features, but you can keep an eye on the Change log for hints http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#private_channel

How is an update to dforce and Iray going to affect ppl like me with an older card? I only have an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (192 bit)(2GB dedicated). I currently use dforce with rare issues except once in a while DS will shut down. And for the most part, I use Iray pretty well for a lot of things, but for things with heavy weight textures it will switch to CPU. Buying a new card isn't an option right now.

dForce uses OpenCL, not CUDA, so it isn't going to suffer from deprecated suport for older cards. Of course more complex items may still leave you unable to run sims at an acceptable speed, but it isn't the same situation as with Iray. (Or at least, I hope not - 750Ti here.)

...so if dForce runs on OpenCL and ignores CUDA, what point is there using your Nvidia GPU as the card's dedicated CUDA cores would be useless? Sounds as if you would be just as well off running the sim on the CPU/physical memory.

barbult · May 2018

According to NVIDIA: OpenCL (Open Computing Language) is a new heterogeneous computing environment, that runs on the CUDA architecture.

kyoto kid · May 2018

..really...so why won't Luxrender (which is OpenCL) work on Nvidia GPUs, just AMD?

barbult · May 2018

Beats me. It is all gobbledygook to me. http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_opencl_1.html

kyoto kid · May 2018

...I've read in on several tech sites that Nvidia's OpenCL development has lagged behind AMD as they are more invested in improving CUDA performance.

Would be interesting to experiment and install one of the old HD7950 GHZ GPUs I have (with 2048 OpenCL Stream Processors and 4.3 TFlops Single Point Precision) to see how that would handle dForce.

ColemanRugh · May 2018

Thanks all for the great feedback. I didn't realize Dforce clothes worked like rigged clothes as well. My bad. Thanks for the help!

Richard Haseltine · May 2018

kyoto kid said:

Richard Haseltine said:

sapat said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Ruphuss said:

is there any progress in the development with dforce ?

or will it be in status quo for ever now

there were no update i think for long

Daz doesn't usually issue prior announcements of new features, but you can keep an eye on the Change log for hints http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/change_log#private_channel

How is an update to dforce and Iray going to affect ppl like me with an older card? I only have an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (192 bit)(2GB dedicated). I currently use dforce with rare issues except once in a while DS will shut down. And for the most part, I use Iray pretty well for a lot of things, but for things with heavy weight textures it will switch to CPU. Buying a new card isn't an option right now.

dForce uses OpenCL, not CUDA, so it isn't going to suffer from deprecated suport for older cards. Of course more complex items may still leave you unable to run sims at an acceptable speed, but it isn't the same situation as with Iray. (Or at least, I hope not - 750Ti here.)

...so if dForce runs on OpenCL and ignores CUDA, what point is there using your Nvidia GPU as the card's dedicated CUDA cores would be useless? Sounds as if you would be just as well off running the sim on the CPU/physical memory.

It still seems faster on the GPU than the CPU, though you can always test (if you install the Intel OpenCL drivers).

grinch2901 · May 2018

Richard Haseltine said:

kyoto kid said:

...so if dForce runs on OpenCL and ignores CUDA, what point is there using your Nvidia GPU as the card's dedicated CUDA cores would be useless? Sounds as if you would be just as well off running the sim on the CPU/physical memory.

It still seems faster on the GPU than the CPU, though you can always test (if you install the Intel OpenCL drivers).

It runs WAY faster on my GPU than my CPU. I know this because sometimes the GPU crashes dForce (memory issue?) and the only way I can sim after that happens, short of restarting DAZ Studio, is to switch to CPU. So I have done the same sim in both, many times. And it's always way faster in GPU but somehow, as I noted, less stable for me.

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