Musings/Observation: Dazworld's male shortage... r.e. the female to male ratio.
tj_1ca9500b
Posts: 2,057
So, looking at the Daz universe objectively, well let's face it, there are a LOT of females, and not as many males.
Sure, there are reasons for this. Most people focus on women's looks more then they do men. But, looking at the Daz ecosystem, this raises some questions...
Specifically, the ratio of female to male characters. This certainly isn't split down the middle. My 'off the hip' impression something like 6 lady characters for every gentleman one... but what is it really?
Since I'm now wondering what the actual ratio is, time to check the tags...
Without trying to sort out the characters from the poses, etc., here are the product numbers, as of the post: referencing the 3D Models > People subdivisions:
*** Notes on the numbers:
- Note that there will be a few 'generic' entries that aren't specific to male or female, and that some product entries are for both male and female,
- Numbers in parenthesis are what appears under the Total entries sort option/checkboxes for that figure group, after unchecking the 'hide owned' checkbox
- Some products are for multiple Genesis generations, which should also be kept in mind.
- Genesis 8:
- 724 total entries:
- 470(551) Female entries
- 187(191) Male Entries
- Genesis 3:
- 1557 Entries
- 1098(951) Female Entries
- 438(381) Male Entries
- Genesis 2
- 767 Entries
- 554(559) Female Entries
- 221(228) Male Entries
- Genesis
- 359 Total Entries, no tags to parse out the Male vs. Female Entries.
- Note that I'm not going to bother with pre-Genesis characters (V4, etc.) 'cuz there's no 'master tag' for those. The above numbers illustrate the situation pretty well already.
So, after making a sidenote real quick that the number of current Genesis 8 entries will be surpassing Genesis 2 soon (pretty good for only being on market for not quite a year yet), what does this tell us?
It appears that the ratio appears a bit over 2 to 1/approaching 3 to 1, male vs female products. With the highest Female to Male product ratio currently being Genesis 8 products.
As for actual characters, hmmm how to parse those... I'm not seeing an easy way to do that, due to the 'Pro character' subdivisions, and the fact the the search results don't parse out morphs and such from actual characters. Maybe someone else can think of an easy way? This was just a thought experiment anyways.
Of course, one should expect more clothing items for females than males as well, so I suspect this ratio will be a bit higher than the actual character to character ratio, but short of counting the actual characters manually...
Since the Genesis category was sufficiently small (3 pages), my quick rough visual count of the characters (first pass) comes out something in the ballpark of:
- Male: at least 60 character entries + Duckie (first estimate)
- Female: at least 127 character entries (first estimate)
So, the takeaway?
It's not just your imagination, and we already knew this. There are a LOT more female product entries by far. Particularly in Genesis 8 (as high as a 2.88 to 1 ratio by my math, using the checkbox numbers)
As for discussions r.e. whether the 'marriage types' situation in Dazland is significantly different than in the real world, well that's probably not an appropriate discussion for this forum (borders on politics, etc.).
Who knows, maybe Dazland is a Matriarchy, or they've adopted Male Cloning...
And now I'm off to do some 3D model shopping!
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Comments
Well, my one pet peave about male vs female characters is.... someone comes up with a really neat and distinct looking space-alien or fantasy-race character, but they only make a FEMALE version of that alien or fantasy race, or only make a MALE version of it. I want to have BOTH male and female Drrinnglebarrians and Xoonkronkkians. Kwaunnplinnkk IV should have FAMILIES, not just a bunch ladies only or a buncha men only.
And pets too!
Bit difficult ... my space aliens have more than two genders, some, other species no more than one
Besides, they lay eggs, so no babies, just miniature adult looking hatchlings ...
Very interesting observation. The DazWorld does reflect the real world a lot.There is way more stores that are aimed toward woman. There are a couple stores that have Men's clothes, though they are usually mixed with the ladies. And the ladies section, has got way more products. I remember many years ago, My Mom sold Avon, and the Men's prodcuts were only maybe a dozen or so pages. And those catalogs have 50+ pages. I think it's different today though.
As for Daz, yeah the Men's stuff is smaller selection. Once I can get modeling down, I will start making some scratches in some men stuff.
It's pretty much how I am for clothes. I wear jeans, polo shirts, long sleeve shirts untucked and fleece pullovers. If I have a good quality version of each of those for my male figure, then i can texture it how I want and he's good for any occasion.
LOL I wear a lot of fleece these days, but my wardrobe standards for decades were jeans, tshirts and "athletic" shoes. Unless it's really cold, if I need a jacket, I throw on a flannel shirt over my tshirt. Such comfortable clothing choices are not limited to the men. I think the last time I wore a skirt was to a wedding, more than a decade ago.
But when it comes to my 3D people, I want lots of choices. If I need four men in a scene, I don't want them all wearing the same thing. Not unless I'm portraying a band in the 60s, back when they used to dress identically. (Anyone else remember The Beatles first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show?)
It hasn’t always been true that women’s fashion is more distinctive than the men. There were time periods where male fashion was more distinctive. A lot of fashion is regional too so just because one person doesn’t wear a lot of variety of clothing does not mean it is the same for the whole gender.
Also the basics for guys aren’t really covered here either. Women may have more variety but the men will have a ton of stuff too in the real world...
so eh, not really seeing the store reflecting real world clothing trends.
I don't know how ya'll be living but right now I'm wearing my chainmail crop top with sting bikini bottom and thigh high boots with 6 inch heels. No really I have on a t-shirt and a pair of men's boxer shorts I bought for my husband that were too big.
Yeah, this is a perenial issue for anyone who does something other than pinups. Toons? Great. But too often they are only male OR female, or, sure, there are other Toons out there, but they don't match in style, No way. Where was the female Morpheus?
Stylized characters, pretty much the same. There, they all tend to be female.
At least 3DU's Toon Generations 2 came with both.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the humorous bit?
My thoughs on Dazland being a Matriarcy, or having adoped cloning for males to 'up' the Male to Female ratio.
Might be better if I change 'Humor' to 'Musings' though, I'll change that now. It makes me chuckle though thinking he dating pool options though...
George, Ollie, Edward, Old Chap and Base G8M + the two basic Morph packs... giving you some nice little wheels... 1000s of different males ready to roll... add to that a couple Freebie Figures or cheap ones to cover different skin tones and the number of possibilities increase exponentatially...
All the "different" females out there aren't really that different, with some exceptions, but there seem to be many, many, many users who lack something that would allow them to use some basics to make their own figures.
It's a bit like pre-made food. Some people only buy such stuff because they think it doesn't take so long to prepare as "proper" food (which is basically wrong...) and others because they think they can't cook (which is also basically wrong, given the number of recipes, cookbooks etc available - everyone could (!) learn to prepare tasty, healthy food).
And we shouldn't forget the one basic principle of a market: it gets produced what people are buying (or what the producers expect the people to buy...)
As one of the main markets for 3d figures in the more recent times isn't longer the artistically inclined clientel but the evergrowing market of web comics with more or less "adult" subjects, there is a need for way more scantilly dressed females than for ordinary looking males. Most parts of those males' bodies usually aren't even shown, except for their reproduction organs, and, like in most adult films, nobody bothers how they look like anyway, as they usually all look the same - muscular hunks - anyway.
Not really. Premade meals save my hide quite a bit on weekdays when I'm too busy to cook. It is not 'wrong' to think premade meals save time. They do. =-)
And some of us look at those muscular hunks, and appreciate all the bits. Personally, I ignore the females in the store- 3d women look samey to me a lot of the time.
I think it boils down to the fact that men and women both like the look of women. I've been wondering what the ratio of men to women is in Daz forums. There seems to be more women here than in traditional 3D modelling forums. I'm glad about that. It's nice from time to time to see something other than big busted warior women going to battle in very impractical armour. They look like they would probably want to stop in the middle of a fight to fix their mascara and lipstick! Still, such is the world of fantasy - not too fond of the look of men with impossibly big muscles either! That's my moan for the day, now to have some fun.
Yeah, this is where the original asexual Genesis excelled. You could make a mom and pop and kid Reptile family easily.
GenX2 helps enormously with that, at least up until Genesis 3...
I forget, now, whether I used GenX2, or autofit the dress, or what... but I had fun doing Reptilians of both sexes. Heh
Not really. There has been a TV show here in germany, in which people were taught to prepare meals they usually either got from a delivery service or bought as "ready product", usually frozen. With a little learning all of them were able to beat the times of the delivery service and the time to prepare that frozen stuff at home. It all comes to knowledge and preparation.
I also use premade meals. Only that I make them myself. It takes about the same time to make 10 portions of Hungarian Gulyas or to make only two. So I make 10 and put 8 - nicely packaged in portions for two people and vacumized in plastic bags - into the freezer, so they are there when I need them.
t helps a bit, that I'm a trained cook, even though I haven't worked in a restaurant for 30 years or so...
So... you're a customer of adult content webcomics and adult content movies because you like to look at the hunks? M'kay... but I would *guess* you're part of a minority with those preferences.
Yeah, but those few minutes you aren't spending preparing food (when you go the TV dinner route) are valuable! I know my way around the kitchen pretty well, but microwave food is a godsend when I'm busy!
Same for preset characters. Sure, I can experiment with mixing morphs (and actually do this fairly often), but that only gets you so far before you end up spending a lot of time tying to get the look you want. That's time I could be spending on posing and rendering! It's so much better when there's a character in the store that already has the look I want, without having to fuss with things. This goes for males as well as females, and some faces/facial looks (and bodies) don't lend themselves well to replication...
So the 2 female character models for every male character model (based on my Genesis count) is a valid issue, for those that are looking for the 'right' male character. Settling for a fairly close model and trying to make do isn't the same as finding one that is really close to what you need right off the bat. Again, time is at a premium for some people more than others, so any time you can save...
Plus, morphing doesn't cover skin textures. If your subset of skin textures isn't that big, yeah that can be another time sink. Better to have a model which is designed with the skin texutre and features look you want, especially if you aren't particularly skilled in this area.
And as for other creatures being very poorly rerpresented, yeah I agree. Creatures/Aliens/Monsters with male versions but not female versions can be annoying, if they normally come in two sexes. Genesis made this easier, but this doesn't help so much for later generations.
I went looking for a praying mantis recently. There's a couple available for other sofrware, but none that I coudl find in Daz/Poserland that was of any use. A poseable Daz version of a praying mantis would be very nice...
Creatures are a niche market, but I'm guessing the guy that makes all of those dinosaurs isn't doing too badly, seeing that he keeps making more!
Maybe he just loves dinosaurs, or is making them to illustrate a book, and thinks why just use them myself if I can sell the whole bunch?
What about that gender morph that lets you switch up the body shapes and such?
Now sure where it came from (I think it's a new thing?) but I've used it a fair bit.
No. Prepped food saves me time, not having to make it and money too as the ingredients for some meals are too expensive... such as lasagna. I'm good with spending time doing things I want, rather than cooking. I am a decent enough cook to understand how much time I'm saving when I do things my way. To each his own.
As far as my interest in male content. No I don't go to adult only sites to look at hunks. but, I do prefer looking at hunks when they are available. And I doubt I'm in the minority, either, but who knows. My point is not everyone here is interested in females and female content. We just aren't.
it's funnest thing in 3Ddom to put vicki skimpwear on hunky dudes
my very 1st daz4 render was dressing david5 in v4 delerium
I agree. Everytime I get an email from daz showing me all the same/baby-faced women, I think: there's nothing here for me. I haven't bought a "New" Item in months. I exclusively shop from my wishlist.
And I also agree about the cooking thing. I have zero interest in spending my time doing that. Pre-made all the way.
My fondest wish is to see more males and male things, but Daz seems content to save me money ;) I don't need a vendor jumping in to tell me the reasons - I get it. FWIW, I don't think I've ever made a male freebie either (I will have to remedy that), other than a war hatchet that can be used by any figure. Hmmm...
Laurie
my males are lovers not fighters. wouldnt harm anyone, with clubs, flails, axes, hatchets, swords, guns
they need gardening tools, carpentry, pillows, flowers. they surf, ski., pilot/flying gear, steampunk (glue gears on 1980s junk
)
feather dusters, house work stuff. walk the dogs, strum guitar at the campfires
I'm a vegetarian that can't afford being vegetarian because it's considered an upscale lifestyle choice so I have to make my own food and it does take a lot of time and you have to learn to invent your own foods (basically find vegan recipes online and then customize those so that they taste good as those vegan online recipes are pretty typically edited with an obsession to be as skinny as a coatrack and taste like it) as meat substitutes because what they sale at the frozen food bin as hamburger and such substitutes at preparred sit-down in restaurant prices doesn't taste good, doesn't offer much product for the money, or enough protein either. There are vegetarian choices now in fast food restaurants at the different chains with wildly varying taste and nutritional profiles but I can't afford those either but they are nice for the once every year or two that I do go to one of those places. Also, they've changed the technology they use in modern refrigerators and freezers in the USA and I've now had 2 brand new refrigerators actually break in less that one year's time. I am glad I still have my 10 year old fridge-freezer to put back in use!
You made the excellent dwarf clothing, are you saying dwarves aren't sexy?!
I'd recommend learning to make Indian food. A) the higher classes were vegetarian (brahmin) so they have a long history of creating actually tasty vegetarian stuff. B) lentils are dirt cheap, actually have all the proteins you need, and are way less gassy than beans. C) most Indian stuff reheats super well so you can make a big batch when you have time and then have it to quickly reheat when youyou in a rush.
I made a lot of Indian in college