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Exquisite Ornaments Outfit by Aeon Soul Questions

Rod Wise DriggoRod Wise Driggo Posts: 2,322
edited April 2018 in The Commons

Hi, nice outfit as always from Aeon Soul. I wonder whether this product does come with specific body morphs which help to create the impression like the outfit "prints" into the body. Please see those promos for reference: Promo1 (legs), Promo2 (legs & arms).

I checked for the filelist but there is no body morph (data/DAZ 3D/genesis 8/...) listed: File list.

Has anybody already purchased and knows more about it? Would like to know if those morphs come with the product or whether they've been custom made just for the promos and not available with the product before purchasing myself.

Thanks!

Post edited by Rod Wise Driggo on

Comments

  • exstarsisexstarsis Posts: 2,128

    I wondered this, too. I decided they'd probably implemented them for those renders, which was a little sad.

  • posecastposecast Posts: 386

    Yeah those look great. I would love to see a tutorial on how to do that. Maybe render the outfit seperate and composite with a drop shadow in photoshop?

  • Joe WebbJoe Webb Posts: 837

    I know at least the Alphakini has a morph attached to it called the AS-AK that gives those folds or indents to the skin, making them more realistic. They are in Parameters>Actor at the very bottom of the list and hidden (which I've forgotten how to unhide since I did that a while ago so I can see all the hidden controls).

    I would assume this set has it to, if only because they seem to be there in the promo. But I don't know for sure.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    Joe Webb said:

    I know at least the Alphakini has a morph attached to it called the AS-AK that gives those folds or indents to the skin, making them more realistic. They are in Parameters>Actor at the very bottom of the list and hidden (which I've forgotten how to unhide since I did that a while ago so I can see all the hidden controls).

    I would assume this set has it to, if only because they seem to be there in the promo. But I don't know for sure.

    They're not in the file list which seems to be generated automatically, so I guess they probably don't exist.

  • Joe WebbJoe Webb Posts: 837
    agent unawares said:
    Joe Webb said:

    I know at least the Alphakini has a morph attached to it called the AS-AK that gives those folds or indents to the skin, making them more realistic. They are in Parameters>Actor at the very bottom of the list and hidden (which I've forgotten how to unhide since I did that a while ago so I can see all the hidden controls).

    I would assume this set has it to, if only because they seem to be there in the promo. But I don't know for sure.

    They're not in the file list which seems to be generated automatically, so I guess they probably don't exist.

    Perhaps not. They are listed for the Alphakini. Maybe someone who owns it can verify. I'd buy it but I'm tapped out after MM cheeky

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586

    I just asked them elsewhere; if they don't see this thread before I get an answer, I'll let you know.

  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,983

    I'd like to know as well.  Wish they'd bundled this

  • Aeon SoulAeon Soul Posts: 137
    Hi!
    we've seen people interested in these morphs, so a little explanation.
    These are HD morphs, they are created on a Genesis figure at subdivision 2, 3 or 4 on an external program (in our case Zbrush and/on Maya).
    The HD morphs are then imported into Daz Studio through the HD plug-in, which I think is only available to PAs that have already released in the store (things could have changed in the years though).


    We normally do include them when they make sense (on tight-fitting clothing pieces), several of our clothes have them.
    In this case however we didn't because they needed too much adjusting. The jewels shapes are irregular (compared to, say, the round bottom part of a bra, thinking AlphaKini here) and some are in tricky areas.

    We did some testing and were not satisfied with how they behaved when the character moves (for the reasons stated above: irregular shape, tricky areas) and that would only get worse with custom characters.
    Even when we used them on our images, sometimes we would need to fix them again in Zbrush.

    So in this case we preferred not to include this feature as we would need to add too many disclaimers, explanations etc. We didn't want to include a feature that in many cases wouldn't look good/be usable.

    Still, people seem quite interested in this feature and we may give it a second look. See if we can manage to create morphs that will not distort too much with poses etc. and in case update the product later on (if you are happy with it).

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 2,027
    Aeon Soul said:

    Hi!
    we've seen people interested in these morphs, so a little explanation.
    These are HD morphs, they are created on a Genesis figure at subdivision 2, 3 or 4 on an external program (in our case Zbrush and/on Maya).
    The HD morphs are then imported into Daz Studio through the HD plug-in, which I think is only available to PAs that have already released in the store (things could have changed in the years though).


    We normally do include them when they make sense (on tight-fitting clothing pieces), several of our clothes have them.
    In this case however we didn't because they needed too much adjusting. The jewels shapes are irregular (compared to, say, the round bottom part of a bra, thinking AlphaKini here) and some are in tricky areas.

    We did some testing and were not satisfied with how they behaved when the character moves (for the reasons stated above: irregular shape, tricky areas) and that would only get worse with custom characters.
    Even when we used them on our images, sometimes we would need to fix them again in Zbrush.

    So in this case we preferred not to include this feature as we would need to add too many disclaimers, explanations etc. We didn't want to include a feature that in many cases wouldn't look good/be usable.

    Still, people seem quite interested in this feature and we may give it a second look. See if we can manage to create morphs that will not distort too much with poses etc. and in case update the product later on (if you are happy with it).

    Here's an idea; how about a normal/displacement map instead for the character when they're wearing it via certain poses, it would be much easier than wrestling with JMCs as that would be a nightmare to implement!

  • Joe WebbJoe Webb Posts: 837

    Seems like a lot of work. I wonder how results would look if we just did them in post? Probably not as good, its a very subtle change. So in short I'd like to see them, but I'm getting the set anyway (once the money tree blooms again).

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    I'm crossing my fingers that at some point in the next few years Daz develops some softbody modeling so we can more easily do this stuff.

    Of course, it doesn't help that Iray lacks microdisplacement.

     

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735

    Smay's slinky suit and slinky suit 2 have morphs to make it look like it sinks into the skin.  But then there's no jewels or other deco on it.

    https://www.daz3d.com/slinky-suit-for-genesis-3-female-s

    https://www.daz3d.com/slinky-suit-2-for-genesis-3-and-8-female-s

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    What I would try doing is a Push Node Weight Map, and 'paint' in the displacement desired. Again, mesh density is a huge issue, but you might be able to tweak in the exact effect you want.

     

  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508
    takezo_3001 said:
    Aeon Soul said:

    Hi!
    we've seen people interested in these morphs, so a little explanation.
    These are HD morphs, they are created on a Genesis figure at subdivision 2, 3 or 4 on an external program (in our case Zbrush and/on Maya).
    The HD morphs are then imported into Daz Studio through the HD plug-in, which I think is only available to PAs that have already released in the store (things could have changed in the years though).


    We normally do include them when they make sense (on tight-fitting clothing pieces), several of our clothes have them.
    In this case however we didn't because they needed too much adjusting. The jewels shapes are irregular (compared to, say, the round bottom part of a bra, thinking AlphaKini here) and some are in tricky areas.

    We did some testing and were not satisfied with how they behaved when the character moves (for the reasons stated above: irregular shape, tricky areas) and that would only get worse with custom characters.
    Even when we used them on our images, sometimes we would need to fix them again in Zbrush.

    So in this case we preferred not to include this feature as we would need to add too many disclaimers, explanations etc. We didn't want to include a feature that in many cases wouldn't look good/be usable.

    Still, people seem quite interested in this feature and we may give it a second look. See if we can manage to create morphs that will not distort too much with poses etc. and in case update the product later on (if you are happy with it).

    Here's an idea; how about a normal/displacement map instead for the character when they're wearing it via certain poses, it would be much easier than wrestling with JMCs as that would be a nightmare to implement!

    Should be fairly easy to bake in a normal/disp map from Blender too.

  • StormlyghtStormlyght Posts: 666
    Aeon Soul said:

    Hi!
    we've seen people interested in these morphs, so a little explanation.
    These are HD morphs, they are created on a Genesis figure at subdivision 2, 3 or 4 on an external program (in our case Zbrush and/on Maya).
    The HD morphs are then imported into Daz Studio through the HD plug-in, which I think is only available to PAs that have already released in the store (things could have changed in the years though).


    We normally do include them when they make sense (on tight-fitting clothing pieces), several of our clothes have them.
    In this case however we didn't because they needed too much adjusting. The jewels shapes are irregular (compared to, say, the round bottom part of a bra, thinking AlphaKini here) and some are in tricky areas.

    We did some testing and were not satisfied with how they behaved when the character moves (for the reasons stated above: irregular shape, tricky areas) and that would only get worse with custom characters.
    Even when we used them on our images, sometimes we would need to fix them again in Zbrush.

    So in this case we preferred not to include this feature as we would need to add too many disclaimers, explanations etc. We didn't want to include a feature that in many cases wouldn't look good/be usable.

    Still, people seem quite interested in this feature and we may give it a second look. See if we can manage to create morphs that will not distort too much with poses etc. and in case update the product later on (if you are happy with it).

    Thank you for the explanation. I now have a better understanding why the morphs weren't included. I will purchase as is.

    Trish

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    Here's a quick experiment using a push node weight map. With some practice one could probably do a better job, but I basically painted a 'push' around the upper thighs, blended it a bit.

    It's... a little lumpy, but you get the idea. The advantage over a displacement map is that you aren't competing with any existing displacement maps and you can paint the effect to look right with however the morphs and clothes are coming together.

    (A different Aeon Soul outfit)

    Push test.jpg
    1300 x 1000 - 176K
  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,983

    So if the morphs are not included, how was the effect achieved in the promos?

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    ALLIEKATBLUE said:

    So if the morphs are not included, how was the effect achieved in the promos?

    I believe they used the morphs, but chose not to include them for the reasons given.
  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,983
    Daywalker Designs said:
    ALLIEKATBLUE said:

    So if the morphs are not included, how was the effect achieved in the promos?

     

    I believe they used the morphs, but chose not to include them for the reasons given.

    Got it, thanks Daywalker

  • Aeon SoulAeon Soul Posts: 137
    edited April 2018
    takezo_3001 said:

    Here's an idea; how about a normal/displacement map instead for the character when they're wearing it via certain poses, it would be much easier than wrestling with JMCs as that would be a nightmare to implement!

    It would really not be ideal in this istance (for the interaction between two items).

    Creating a displacement vs HD morphis is more time consuming and convoluted. You have to deal with maps going through seams, body parts etc.

    You also need to deliver the option, so you either ask user to load these maps (not practical nor fair) or maybe use LIE and then you have to take into consideration all possible skin shaders people can use. Also the Displacement would be ignored by smoothing and collision interaction. So it would be far more time-consuming and really not practical.

    HD morphs are pretty straightforward, our problem is definitely not with the morphs themselves (our first product as Aeon Soul at daz, the G2 Fantasy Ornaments already included HD morphs, but those jewels are far more simpler in shape), is how they behave when the character moves and on custom characters.

    So is not the method that poses the problem, is the result we're not a 100% satisfied with.

    ALLIEKATBLUE said:

    I'd like to know as well.  Wish they'd bundled this

    If you mean a clothing + textures add-on bundle, daz hasn't accepted them for a while, otherwise we would have offered it.

    Stormlyght said:

    Thank you for the explanation. I now have a better understanding why the morphs weren't included. I will purchase as is.

    Trish

    Feel free to get in touch whenever you have questions, we are easier to reach on DeviantArt :).

    Post edited by Aeon Soul on
  • Rod Wise DriggoRod Wise Driggo Posts: 2,322

    @Aeon Soul

    Got the product. It would be great once you might add those morphs - even if just a few or if there usage is limited - with a later update.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,893
    Rod Wise Driggo said:

    @Aeon Soul

    Got the product. It would be great once you might add those morphs - even if just a few or if there usage is limited - with a later update.

    Got it as well, as usual, another great product. I would really love to have the morphs as well, even if they aren't perfect for all characters and or poses.

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