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Is this the future of Studio? Not good.

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  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,411
    cherpenbeck said:

    Marriage, maybe, but if I buy a house, I still own it when the former owner dies, and I can add rooms and such freely.

    The software for DAZ studio instead - I buy a scipt licence, and with the next update of DAZ Studio the script doesn't work any longer, and no one can fix this besides the original PA. If he/she doesn't, that's it.

    Which ends in two ways (if I really loved to work with this software script):

    1. I stay with an older version of DAZ Studio, won't buy newer products from DAZ or that PA, because they don't work with the older Studio versions in the long run.

    2. I'm pissed off that I can't use my sparkling toy any longer, change to the new Studio Version and don't buy from that PA a second time.

    In both version DAZ AND the PA loose sales.

    We're getting a bit loose on definitions here. There are scripts which are encrypted and will not run on an earlier version of Studio than what was used to encrypt them, and plugins which are compiled on a specific base version of the DAZ Studio SDK. AFAIK, scripts have continued to work on newer versions of Studio; plugins will continue to work until the minimum base SDK changes - expected to occur when Studio version 5 comes out.

    Also please note that computer code is protected by copyright which (in the US) currently extends some number of years after the death of the creator (I can't come up with the current value for computer code, but I think it is at least 50 years) so there would need to be a sale or release by the PA or estate for DAZ to do anything.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    cherpenbeck said:

    Marriage, maybe, but if I buy a house, I still own it when the former owner dies, and I can add rooms and such freely.

    The software for DAZ studio instead - I buy a scipt licence, and with the next update of DAZ Studio the script doesn't work any longer, and no one can fix this besides the original PA. If he/she doesn't, that's it.

    Which ends in two ways (if I really loved to work with this software script):

    1. I stay with an older version of DAZ Studio, won't buy newer products from DAZ or that PA, because they don't work with the older Studio versions in the long run.

    2. I'm pissed off that I can't use my sparkling toy any longer, change to the new Studio Version and don't buy from that PA a second time.

    In both version DAZ AND the PA loose sales.

    One thing that gets overlooked is that Daz can remove functions that have been replaced by different ones in both the script engine and SDK, though the latter is less common. This removal is what breaks the script or plug-ins, and sometimes it's easier to write an entirely new script than rewrite the parts of the old one that are affected.
  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,321
    edited March 2018

     

    TangoAlpha said:

    I don't really subscribe to artificial gravity of the "magic" sort, favouring gravity through thrust - which doesn't preclude ladders & stairs, it just means more handholds for the times when the engines aren't running. (Centripetal gravity is only for the strong of stomach, imho, since it's known to cause nausea through coreolis effect on the inner ears, unless you have a massive diameter centrifuge, that is.)

    As regards older versions of Studio, I don't honestly know. I don't do anything deliberately to make it not work. But like most people I forget to make a backup of the old DS before it gets overwritten by the new one, and so I only have the current release. I do know that new versions get extra Iray shader parameters (for example) from time to time, and they will be saved in the .duf when you save a file with the new version. But whether an older DS will ignore parameters it doesn't understand, or if it will barf, I don't know.

    Well, since I could buy all three sets for 50% off, I did. Someday I'll own your entire store (Insert evil laugh here).
    I want that crime lab! And the rural crossing, and the...
    And if you want someone to beta test your new stuff in 4.9.2.70, (Which seems to be the dividing point between old/new Studio for functionality), hey, I'll be happy to help! Heh-heh.

    Post edited by Petercat on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,262
    nemesis10 said:
    Taoz said:
    nemesis10 said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Taoz said:
    DrNewcenstein said:

     

    How about this other situation: you wish to sell your product at another store...do you allow Daz3d to retain intellectual control after you have left?  Even marriage has a "until death do you part" clause.  Your contract is that your product should work in the current version of software and there is no post death warranty for any piece of software in the world. If I were the survivor and someone came to me to release intellectual rights to something a departed loved one made, I think I would have hard words with them before I got law enforcement involved. Realistically, in everything in life, there is an alloted lifetime; If you get a dog, the dog will pass away and the provider of the dog doesn't have to give you another one.

    Well one can imagine all kinds of problem scenarios but my opinion is that a PA must have the right to sign a contract with a company based on whatever terms they might agree on. The PA can then discuss these terms with his/her relatives before signing, if relevant.

    Yes, things generally have an expected lifetime, depending on the context, but many things can actually live a lot longer, if needed (especially if the context is planned obsolescence). Why not extend the lifetime as long as possible if it can benefit someone, within reasonable cost-benefit terms. There are no absolute rules here, anyone can make their own rules if they want.

    As for dogs you normally can't extend their natural lifetime but with software there are no real limitations; as long as it's relevant (someone wants it, necessary hardware etc. is available, cost-benefit allows it) you can extend its lifetime as long as you want. So you can't really compare these two things.

    I think we agree on some points: "PA must have the right to sign a contract with a company based on whatever terms they might agree on" but I can't imagine how this would benefit either Daz3d or the PA.  Software can have an almost infinite lifetime but the hardware it runs on doesn't.  If one made a script and one (or your descendents) was required to recompile it everytime OS's change for eternity unless you are forced to give up your intellectual propertty seems like a pretty raw deal for a PA.  I would prefer that the PA's be less encumbered so that they can work their creative magic and that Daz3d retain the rights to make and try to sell the products that spark them creatively. No one should be required to endlessly maintain a DOS version  or OS 8 version of a program through decades. Finally, when you purchase  a product, you enter a contract but even marriage contract dissolve on death.

    I'm not talking about eternal updates, only what's reasonable. Like when a new DS version breaks an existing product (which theoretically might happen the day after you bought it). Here I think DAZ is responsible for making an update, which requires that they have access to the source code. Or they pay the PA for making an update. Or the PS makes a paid update.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited March 2018
    Taoz said:
    nemesis10 said:
    Taoz said:
    nemesis10 said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Taoz said:
    DrNewcenstein said:

     

    How about this other situation: you wish to sell your product at another store...do you allow Daz3d to retain intellectual control after you have left?  Even marriage has a "until death do you part" clause.  Your contract is that your product should work in the current version of software and there is no post death warranty for any piece of software in the world. If I were the survivor and someone came to me to release intellectual rights to something a departed loved one made, I think I would have hard words with them before I got law enforcement involved. Realistically, in everything in life, there is an alloted lifetime; If you get a dog, the dog will pass away and the provider of the dog doesn't have to give you another one.

    Well one can imagine all kinds of problem scenarios but my opinion is that a PA must have the right to sign a contract with a company based on whatever terms they might agree on. The PA can then discuss these terms with his/her relatives before signing, if relevant.

    Yes, things generally have an expected lifetime, depending on the context, but many things can actually live a lot longer, if needed (especially if the context is planned obsolescence). Why not extend the lifetime as long as possible if it can benefit someone, within reasonable cost-benefit terms. There are no absolute rules here, anyone can make their own rules if they want.

    As for dogs you normally can't extend their natural lifetime but with software there are no real limitations; as long as it's relevant (someone wants it, necessary hardware etc. is available, cost-benefit allows it) you can extend its lifetime as long as you want. So you can't really compare these two things.

    I think we agree on some points: "PA must have the right to sign a contract with a company based on whatever terms they might agree on" but I can't imagine how this would benefit either Daz3d or the PA.  Software can have an almost infinite lifetime but the hardware it runs on doesn't.  If one made a script and one (or your descendents) was required to recompile it everytime OS's change for eternity unless you are forced to give up your intellectual propertty seems like a pretty raw deal for a PA.  I would prefer that the PA's be less encumbered so that they can work their creative magic and that Daz3d retain the rights to make and try to sell the products that spark them creatively. No one should be required to endlessly maintain a DOS version  or OS 8 version of a program through decades. Finally, when you purchase  a product, you enter a contract but even marriage contract dissolve on death.

    I'm not talking about eternal updates, only what's reasonable. Like when a new DS version breaks an existing product (which theoretically might happen the day after you bought it). Here I think DAZ is responsible for making an update, which requires that they have access to the source code. Or they pay the PA for making an update. Or the PS makes a paid update.

    Daz isn't responsible. The change over to 4.0 broke a lot of plugins, including one i used to create a java-based model viewing app that rotated a figure in a web browser. And updates are dependent on the PA updates, DAz doesn't pay for updates.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • nemesis10nemesis10 Posts: 3,790
    Taoz said:
    nemesis10 said:
    Taoz said:
    nemesis10 said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Taoz said:
    Male-M3dia said:
    Taoz said:
    DrNewcenstein said:

     

    How about this other situation: you wish to sell your product at another store...do you allow Daz3d to retain intellectual control after you have left?  Even marriage has a "until death do you part" clause.  Your contract is that your product should work in the current version of software and there is no post death warranty for any piece of software in the world. If I were the survivor and someone came to me to release intellectual rights to something a departed loved one made, I think I would have hard words with them before I got law enforcement involved. Realistically, in everything in life, there is an alloted lifetime; If you get a dog, the dog will pass away and the provider of the dog doesn't have to give you another one.

    Well one can imagine all kinds of problem scenarios but my opinion is that a PA must have the right to sign a contract with a company based on whatever terms they might agree on. The PA can then discuss these terms with his/her relatives before signing, if relevant.

    Yes, things generally have an expected lifetime, depending on the context, but many things can actually live a lot longer, if needed (especially if the context is planned obsolescence). Why not extend the lifetime as long as possible if it can benefit someone, within reasonable cost-benefit terms. There are no absolute rules here, anyone can make their own rules if they want.

    As for dogs you normally can't extend their natural lifetime but with software there are no real limitations; as long as it's relevant (someone wants it, necessary hardware etc. is available, cost-benefit allows it) you can extend its lifetime as long as you want. So you can't really compare these two things.

    I think we agree on some points: "PA must have the right to sign a contract with a company based on whatever terms they might agree on" but I can't imagine how this would benefit either Daz3d or the PA.  Software can have an almost infinite lifetime but the hardware it runs on doesn't.  If one made a script and one (or your descendents) was required to recompile it everytime OS's change for eternity unless you are forced to give up your intellectual propertty seems like a pretty raw deal for a PA.  I would prefer that the PA's be less encumbered so that they can work their creative magic and that Daz3d retain the rights to make and try to sell the products that spark them creatively. No one should be required to endlessly maintain a DOS version  or OS 8 version of a program through decades. Finally, when you purchase  a product, you enter a contract but even marriage contract dissolve on death.

    I'm not talking about eternal updates, only what's reasonable. Like when a new DS version breaks an existing product (which theoretically might happen the day after you bought it). Here I think DAZ is responsible for making an update, which requires that they have access to the source code. Or they pay the PA for making an update. Or the PS makes a paid update.

    Unfortunatel, computer software isn't static so that sooner or later, a switch to 128 bit from 64 bit or quantom storage will break every script so it would have to be perpetual. If you buy a script and an update arrives the next day, Daz3d willbe quite glad to return your money.  If you have a script for four years and the script is broken by an update, you have had a pretty good run with the product.  This is why warranties have to be limited...  Daz3d has taken the step of returning your money rather than seizing a PA's intellectual property.  There has to be a reasonable amount of time where you get the product and it goes obsolete.

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