Delicate question, I shouldn't have to ask.
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I think the gen should be seperate and either you can hide it for clothes fits. It should not enterfere with the hip area as it is. I think there is one that, when attatched to the figure and you try to hide it, it goes away but takes part of the groin area with it and it laeves a hole in the mesh. When a pair of pants is fitted to the character, it drops into that hole and looks really weird. Not good, so you have to delete the gen because less you have this hole to deal with. M3 had a real simple way with it. No troubl, just load it and go. Hide it for fits of pants. So yes, a seperate, hideable, one that doesn't mess with the character's mesh.
I tend to keep a gen file or, just detach and hide them. LOL. Sounds like bad horror, invisible detached body parts!
There is a song about a detachable pianist.
so to speak
Heh heh
..there's a song by King Missile about that.
realistically they should be complete with a clothed pose
the female breasts are in a bra wearing pose after all
the naked unfurled pose could have just been an addon
Here's the thing:
A "Pro Bundle" is not an age gate.
Anybody can buy a pro bundle. Anybody. There is absolutely nothing stopping me, grandma, or a 10 year old from buying a pro bundle that contains a genital prop. It does not matter if the genital prop is sold with one item, or if it is sold with a thousand items, a genital prop is still sold here. So it is nonsensical that the prop is segregated to certain bundles.
And even if a character does not have the prop, they may have the textures. So anybody looking through the textures is going to find -OMG that is a penis!- in their texture library.
Additionally, while Renderosity does not sell the gen prop itself, YET, it is pretty hard to believe that what they do otherwise is not adult oriented. With promo pictures of full frontal nudity, and allowing users to upload pictures of nudity. And some of them are rather...explicit. I would believe that this practice alone would be far, far more likely to be flagged than selling the genital prop. After all, Daz does not allow nudity anywhere on the site. Nobody in this thread is saying that should change.
But wait, there's more. So Renderosity does not sell a genital prop. Well that may change soon! Project E is coming to Renderosity. Project E is one man's attempt at making a new Poser figure that is fully modern, and is not constrained like Genesis (no HD morph nonsense, no genital prop nonsense, I can go on...) She is already available at cgbytes. Project E has genitals included. Not to mention, Project E also has a fit to Victoria 4, which allows V4 to take on Project E's shape...I am not certain but that may include the genital shape as well. So it may be a round about way, but this could be imported into Daz Studio.
So both cgbytes and Renderosity are both totally ok with selling a figure that includes a genital shape, and it is not in any kind of "pro bundle" packaging. It is not in way hidden, either. This flies directly in the face of the credit card argument and tears it to shreds.
With everything posted above, it should not be any wild speculation that credit card companies are out to get our genitals. There is no excuse to keep a genital prop segregated from other products. There is no age gate. The ONLY gate from the props is a higher price tag. The policy is anti-consumer. And as the first post stated, props from 'the other place' can be very rudimentary. If you want the male genital that is not ridiculous, you pretty much need the one Daz makes.
Not really. Do we know what payment processing rate they're paying? We don't.
I wouldn't be too quick to sing the praises of project E, the figure is pretty much vendor unfriendly with the massive amounts of JCMs (note JCMs are notoriously difficult in Poser; genesis has ways of handling them, especially for custom shapes), especially in that hip area where those gens are. So far the only products are 4 dynamic dresses, an erotic pose set, and a skin MR. Even though it's been out for a month, that's hardly a comparison to genesis. Project E is basically Victoria 4.7 that happens to be weighmapped. People can keep an eye on it, but with that nonexistent marketing rollout, I wouldn't bet vendor support is going to be any better than watching people use the fitting room to convert clothes they made for DAZ figures.
I am afraid to look if could
so George maybe got the least touchup?
And on the subject of anticonsumer.. it reminds me of some of the trips I take.
My vacations during the summer and fall consists of going to amusement parks. People that know me, know that I'm going to be drinking a few beers during the day while I'm there. Every amusement park is different and have different goals, corporate culture and modes of operation. If I go to Dollywood or Silver Dollar City, I won't have beer served period. If I go to any six flags park, depending on how they're staffed, I may have to wait until they go get a manager or someone that's over 21 (because generally those parks have mostly under-21 workers because how much they pay) to pour and serve my beer, and then I can't leave the immediate area. Going to Universal Studios, I can easily find a beer and take it with me as I get on rides.
Now knowing how each company operates, am I going to raise a fuss at Dollywood because they won't sell beer? Will I demand to take my beer everywhere at Six Flags rather than keep it behind ropes? Of course not, because in each of those parks I guarantee you, the majority of people aren't there to drink beer. So it's my choice to visit the park where I can get what I want, because there's no reason for their culture to change for something that doesn't attract the majority of their customers. If a park wants to sell beer only in designated parts they can, if folks only go to drink, they'd do better visiting a bar or a park where they can do what they want with beer purchases. This site is no different, gens aren't majority of their sales, and most likely part of their business plan to only sell it in certain bundles, just like only drinking beer in designated spots. That said I have a season pass to universal as that's where I'll go more often, but if go elsewhere, I already have an expectation of how they operate and if it's not something that pulls in a great deal of money, I'm not going to affect their decision by protesting. But them not offering my the beer the way I want ultimately isn't anti-consumer. Offering genitals, like serving beer, has some liabilities that either a company doesn't want to take, or they'll put restrictions on.
If that really is the case (and it isn't...) change payment processors. Processors have to compete for business like any other business. I see companies change processors all the time, bouncing from one thing to the next. They do not have a monopoly. That is very weak argument. Besides the payment processors, you overlook something else entirely.
Google Ads. We might not know their payment processor, but we certainly do know who hosts some of their ads. In ad supported apps and some websites, Google Ads will shoot me ads for Daz and Renderosity because I have been on those sites. If the site was flagged as porn it would not do that. So if perhaps the payment processor at Renderosity just so happened to be more open than what poor Daz uses, Google would not be so kind.
The quality of Project E is not at all relevant. The fact is that Project E has genitals included, and multiple web stores are going to be carrying the model. Those stores do not express any concerns over their payment processor flipping out.
Plus that still doesn't address the fact that the pro bundle is not an age gate. Why would a payment company be ok with a genital prop in pro bundles but then freak out if it was in starter bundles? There is no logic behind that argument at all. A genital prop is a genital prop, and it is openly available for a fee. And it is not remotely compatible to beer policy. Daz is not Dollywood. Daz is already selling genital props. It is not some moral thing because if it was the props would not exist at all and females would not have nipples. It is also not comparable to keeping people behind ropes, that's a safety concern. Nobody is going to trip over themselves and start a fire with Daz genitals, unless their PC lights up in flames perhaps while rendering something kinky.
The beer analogy would be like this: Daz Park charges you more than triple the standard ticket to have access to beer. And that ticket includes a bunch of extra stuff which you might not want at all, dog chew toys when you don't have a dog, balloons when you hate balloons, and so on. All to get a beer. That's not a cover charge, that's extortion. And if a park did this, people would complain like crazy, and be very much entitled to complain. You are right about one thing, people don't go to amusement parks for the beer. But people do come to Daz for human elements. The frequency of these threads should be an indicator. And most people do not post in forums, they just leave. So one must wonder how many sales are left on the table by such outdated policies. This is an art community, not a day care nor family amusement park.
And if people never stand up and complain, nothing will ever change for sure. Telling people to never speak out is downright horrifying. That is precisely the "It has always been this way" argument right there. Just because it has been always that way does not make it right.
100 years ago women were not even allowed to wear small swimsuits. They had to wear baggy clothes, even to a hot beach. Women had to stand up and make this happen. Somebody had to protest. Times change. And times have changed in just the past 10 and 20 years. If this was an issue before, it isn't now.
Elvis could not show his hips on Ed Sullivan. But who went on to become the King?
There is a serious problem with video games promoting gambling. The recent Star Wars Battlefront 2 game was going to have random "loot crates" which can be bought with real money. The entire game was built around this, and the game used every gambling psychology trick in the book in order to push players towards buying them. But you see, Star Wars is marketed towards children. People protested. And it was ONLY because of these protests that the publisher pulled back and removed these deceitful tactics from the game before its final release. (There was a beta, which had the gambling in full force.)
People pushed back against Daz Connect, and rightfully so. It was directly because of protests in these forums that Connect was not embraced as much as it very likely would have been.
So saying we should just keep our mouths silent and accept a corporation's dirty practices...well, I'm not going to finish that sentence.
That is why this and other threads like it will continue to pop up. Change will never happen if people don't ask for it.
Yepp... one might also think of it as a quite clever trick to sell those Pro Packages, considering that quite a few people using DAZ make "adult" games and web comix...
In the end, it's probably just the old adage "look where the money is"
Luckily I'm living in Germany, so I am free to drink beer and even carry a can/plastic cup of beer around all day in amusement parks over here or even in public. They even sell beer at McDonalds here.
Again the threads iwll pop up, but it won't change the business strategy. There's no compelling incentive to given how they sell it.. its not a front line item. You can't push back against something not actually sold ;) . Hasn't been for years. Gens aren't the main attraction, and connect in itself wasn't bad, it was marketed badly. And you get your payment processors based on certain criteria, just like you get loans... you don't get to pick a better place if you intentially try to damage your credit, it doesn't work like that.
And all the suggestions on how to sell it comes right back to, that's not our strategy and doesn't impact the bottom line. You do have options in other stores where it is their strategy, and DAZ pretty much leaves that area to them. So yes project E is sold at other places, but it's out of place here because ot the gens becuase that's an area really they don't want to get in on.
I'm going to bow out because there isn't more to say than that.
Discussing the validity of various posited explanations for Daz' policy when we have no idea of the correct explanation is an exercise in futlity, so the thread is being locked.