Copyright of my renders

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Comments

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,049
    edited January 2018

    This whole discussion stemmed from someone stealing the legitimate artist artwork and passing it off as theirs in an auction on ebay. All I'm saying is Ebay should be more responsible making sure the person putting up the auction actually owns the art.   Instead of the OP having to prove ownership after the fact,  the uploaded should prove ownership first. It's exactly the same demand,   but on the person prior to the start of the auction.  Since ebay will benefit from the sale and transaction,  it's their responsibility to have that proof. 

    Years back,  there were fake Magic the Gathering card sold on ebay.  Kids with printers would make a "Boba Fett"  Magic the gathering card and sell it,  and people would buy them at auction for various reasons.  Well  Wizard of the Coast, the rightful copyright owner of Magic the Gathering put a stop to it, by demanding ebay to filter the submissions. 

    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited January 2018

    The really annoying thing here is,  the violator can set up an auction without any proof of copyright,  but the true copyright owner has to jump through hoops to get it removed.  The default should be,  prove copyright ownership  in the first place to have the right to sell.  

    God no. No one has any right to make me demonstrate anything in order to do what I want with someone I own.

    When it comes to the assets here,  you acquire a "License to use",  you don't own the assets.  You acquire a copyright to the finished render when it is rendered in 2D form as per the terms in the EULA but the copyright of the asset themselves remain with the PA and/or Daz.  Even Youtube has started demanding proof of copyright ownership before they'll monetize videos uploaded by users.  Ebay should as well. 

    I'm talking about distributing what I own what in the devil are you responding to?

    People absolutely do not have the right to have me prove I own the HDRs or anything else I make before I give them away.

    EDIT: Sites can demand that I do because I do not own the site, this just means I won't use the site.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • Instead of the OP having to prove ownership after the fact,  the uploaded should prove ownership first. It's exactly the same demand,   but on the person prior to the start of the auction.

    Nope, it's a completely different demand. This one demands people who own their work need to prove they own it in order to do something they want with it - except they already have the right to do whatever they want with it, what with owning it and all.

  • ButchButch Posts: 800

    tombraider4ever, like Phoenix says, you should send a DMCA takedown notice if they aren't playing nice with you. This has more legal weight than just telling eBay you own copyright.

    You do not need copyright documents to have copyright.

    The only drawback to a DMCA for an individual is that it has to have valid contact details.

    Been a while since I've done one, but initially, once ebay receives the takedown notice, ebay should remove the offending items and contact the seller, advising them of the DMCA.  No personal details of either party should be revealed, at this point.  However, if the ebay seller decides to challenge the DMCA, that's when it gets messy and contact details are involved and you'd need to go down legal avenues. 

    In your DMCA notice, you should provide as much detail as possible - dates, software used, etc.  I've raised a few DMCA's in my time and no one has ever challenged them.

     

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited January 2018

    Its even worst for animation.  I create and post online before posting my animations a full copyright PDF# doc notice for each animated flim. Then when I have to do am DMCA take down.(I have done 4 of them to date)  I have a PDF doc to send with my copyright and dates of film creation.   I also have been hit by people trying to claim my work as theirs But becauue I had made my copyright docs before releasing the film and posting & dating the docs to my own website.  the theif was so much easier to dispute.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Phoenix1966Phoenix1966 Posts: 1,859

    Thanks for the advice, agent unawares, I will send one if they don't take it down after my email. What exactly is a  DMCA takedown notice? I have never heard of it before.

    If you click on the link I provided, there is an explanation of what a DMCA Takedown Notice is before the sample template for you to use.

  • Butch said:

    tombraider4ever, like Phoenix says, you should send a DMCA takedown notice if they aren't playing nice with you. This has more legal weight than just telling eBay you own copyright.

    You do not need copyright documents to have copyright.

    The only drawback to a DMCA for an individual is that it has to have valid contact details.

    Been a while since I've done one, but initially, once ebay receives the takedown notice, ebay should remove the offending items and contact the seller, advising them of the DMCA.  No personal details of either party should be revealed, at this point.  However, if the ebay seller decides to challenge the DMCA, that's when it gets messy and contact details are involved and you'd need to go down legal avenues. 

    In your DMCA notice, you should provide as much detail as possible - dates, software used, etc.  I've raised a few DMCA's in my time and no one has ever challenged them.

     

    With the DMCA notification process, you don't need to prove anything regarding your copyright. It's all just declarations made under penalty of perjury, with anyone lying liable for the other side's attorneys fees.

    You don't need to provide any more information in the DMCA notice than the form that Phoenix1966 linked. Just make sure you include all the required information to Ebay's DMCA agent (https://dmca.copyright.gov/osp/publish/history.html?search=ebay.com&id=e92e5a02bd2a46b93a3a9da9e168a3be seems to show it's [email protected]).

    You should just go ahead and send the completed form to Ebay, because I doubt they'd take it down otherwise. They would, however, be required to under the DMCA, and not doing so expeditiously can potentially get them into trouble, so that's always the best bet when it's your copyright at issue.

    Ideally, Ebay would just take it down, and that would be the end of that. You may have to monitor the infringer and file another DMCA notice if it happens again, though many sites should start banning repeat offenders.

    Always a chance that they'd be stupid enough to file a DMCA counter notification (i.e., falsely attesting to the fact that they are the holder of the copyright or have permission). Then you'd be forced to file a lawsuit against them within 10 days, or else the infringing material goes up again. That said, since they opened themselves to an attorneys fees penalty by lying under oath, there's a slight chance some attorney may be willing to take it on, esp. if this is an individual vendor who may not necessarily be judgment-proof. 

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 7,137

    On the other hand, if someone sold a print of their art at let's say a comic convention or through Fine Art America or at a gallery or as a commission, the buyer WOULD be able to resell that art, they just couldn't claim they had created it. 

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,271

    Maybe DAZ could add a feature to DS which at request automatically uploads a copy of your original render with a user ID (e.g. based on DS serial number) and time stamp record (perhaps with some encryption scheme involved that guarantees that the data can't be tampered with by anyone) to one of their servers. In case of a copyright breach you then request DAZ to provide the documentation directly to whoever wants it. They could probably make a business out of this.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 7,137
    Taoz said:

    Maybe DAZ could add a feature to DS which at request automatically uploads a copy of your original render with a user ID (e.g. based on DS serial number) and time stamp record (perhaps with some encryption scheme involved that guarantees that the data can't be tampered with by anyone) to one of their servers. In case of a copyright breach you then request DAZ to provide the documentation directly to whoever wants it. They could probably make a business out of this.

    Couldn't you just upload it to the gallery or even the forums? Everything is time stamped and most people even include the products they used in their description.  Also, people need to visibly watermark! Have your name right on top of a part of the image that would be hard to paint over and only upload low res, unprintable images.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,271
    Taoz said:

    Maybe DAZ could add a feature to DS which at request automatically uploads a copy of your original render with a user ID (e.g. based on DS serial number) and time stamp record (perhaps with some encryption scheme involved that guarantees that the data can't be tampered with by anyone) to one of their servers. In case of a copyright breach you then request DAZ to provide the documentation directly to whoever wants it. They could probably make a business out of this.

    Couldn't you just upload it to the gallery or even the forums? Everything is time stamped and most people even include the products they used in their description.  Also, people need to visibly watermark! Have your name right on top of a part of the image that would be hard to paint over and only upload low res, unprintable images.

    Maybe - but you still need to document that it's your picture in the gallery. A user name doesn't reveal much about who made it.

  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 334
    edited January 2018

    My suggestion would be making pictures with that are larger than you want (e.g. 1400 x 900 for an image that's going to be 1200 x 800), signing in the unwanted area, then cropping the image.  Sign the cropped image as you normally would and upload to your gallery.  If someone steals your stuff, you have the full image to show, with additional stuff on the edges that would have been very difficult for anyone but the real artist to have added to the image.

    E.g. Original image on disk vs. what's posted:

    image                                      image

    I think it would be pretty easy to prove you're the original artist with something like that.

    OriginalImage.png
    500 x 458 - 336K
    FinalImage.png
    296 x 394 - 196K
    Post edited by Crescent on
  • ButchButch Posts: 800

    "all images were found on the internet and are assumed to be public domain" is one of my favourite tumblr sentences.  The © and watermarks obviously don't count. 

  • Thank you so much for the helpful advice and information in this thread! heart I  sent all my evidence (psd file with all layers, render with just one layer without the deapt of field blurr of the layers above, links to the places where I upload my renders, wip shots of my Lara model in the making,) and I wrote that I had the scene file too left and that I could re-render and send screenshots if needed. I also told them about the seller selling Disneyprints.   And I WON !!!! laughlaughlaughlaugh I got an email today saying that they had taken down the listing and I have checked and it is gone. I am so happy that I was succcessfull in this, it gives me hope for the future, that if/when this happens again there's a possibiltiy that I can win. I have learned to never delete psd files and scenefiles, to take screenshots of my renders beeing rendered, to crop the renders I upload, and to upload in jpg format in 72 dpi and write my info in the ´"jpg info box". 

  • TooncesToonces Posts: 919

    Congrats!

    Hopefully ebay takes it a step further and gives the guy a negative review or something beyond delisting. They likely can't afford to take legal action, but it would be simple to drop the seller's 'hard-earned' rating. Seems entirely justified.

  • I agree, I wish that it would say somewhere on the sellers info that he had a print taken down due to copyright issues, so that buyers know that the print they want to buy might be/probably is stolen.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Some sellers are in China or other countries. It will be impossible to do much if ebay doesn’t take it down.

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