Which DAZ Genesis 8 M/F items are the most realistic?
SnowPheonix
Posts: 896
in The Commons
Already as I look across the field of new characters and items their are already a lot of choices to make... Which Genesis 8 characters are the most photorealistic in your good opinion and why? I'm trying to pick new character to put in my line up... I'm hoping to find the most beautiful but still realistic. Thanks in advance.
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I don't think there is any simple answer here, since there is a lot of disagreement on what constitutes realistic. To me, most of the DAZ Original figures are realistic, but others don't.
Yes, it is a very subjective answer ... so it should be interesting to see what other people consider to be the most realistic but also beautiful... which is also highly subjective.. but still.. I've found in the past that there are usually one or two stand outs that rise to the top.
Lyra and Benita for G8F are about the most realistic looking characters so far IMVHO.
Laurie
Interesting enough I already own Benita so I'm going to give her a second look on your advice and I'm going to snap up Lyra since she's on sale at the moment... Thanks for the heads up. Grateful for any further recommendations in the future. :)
https://www.daz3d.com/lyra-hd-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/lainey-for-victoria-8
https://www.daz3d.com/nenana-alien-hd-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/faye-young-lyra-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.daz3d.com/benita-for-victoria-8
Keep in mind that you can also use G3 textures on G8. Textures play a huge part in realism. If you find good ones for G3 (that uses the base UV) you can always use them with G8.
Really? How do you know if it uses the "base UV"? I tried using a G3 texture on G8 and it looked awful. Ironcally... my favorite textures are actually for V-4 that I managed to convert to G2 textures... but I don't see making the leap to G8... I don't know.
What about it "looked awful"?
Most G3 textures are compatable with G8. The ones that aren't are the "offical Daz Original" G3 characters and a few PA characters that made textures using one of their UVs. To check to see if the texture set is compatable with G8, load the G3 character and look under the Surfaces Tab at the character's surfaces. Scroll down to where it says "UV Set", if it says "Base Female" then the textures are compatable with G8. Just save the textures as Material Preset and you can then wear them on G8.
To save a texture set as a material preset just go to File >> Save As >> Material Preset and name it. :)
I have to second (or third) Lyra for Genesis 8 Female. I also like the look of Victoria 8. Although I have only been using Daz Studio for a few months and am new to anything above Genesis v1, I find the Genesis 3 figures to be more realistic to my eyes, but I am sure that others would disagree.
As others have said though, "realistic" is very subjective. The human brain is brilliant at pattern recognition (sometimes even where there isn't a pattern such as on a creepy twilight walk home) and so it can recognise human faces in lots of different styles. Every artist who makes a 3D human figure will have a slightly different take on what makes it look realistic. I personally think that many of the child figures here at Daz have slightly exaggerated features that are not very realistic - but they are there to elicit a response from us that this is a child because most of us are programmed to respond to large eyes and a slightly oversized head as "cute", which is why we respond to babies, puppies and kittens.
Overall though, if you are going for realism in your renders, it is not just the figure. The lighting is probably much more important. There are many times over the years that I have bought a wonderful-looking figure, only to render it in a scene and wonder why it didn't look anywhere near as good as the promos. It took a while for me to realise that the lighting is what makes the difference. But even that is subjective and different for everyone.
It is also worth noting that there are some artists who still use Victoria 4 and Michael 4 and produce work that looks more realistic than the majority of us can manage with the latest figures and tools.
You had me right up until you ignored the technology gap. Genesis 8 can produce not only more accurate bodies but does it in a way that the pre-genesis simply can't because they lack 'articulation points'. It is simply not a physical reality that the old characters can even begin to compare. Old character are simply unable to replicate the realism of the new characters much less high definition morphs. No way does Pre-genesis even begin to compare.
To be honest... I just remember that the discoloration was nothing like it did on a Genesis 3.. It's almost as if the new characters have a different layering system because my 'second skins' don't convert over either...
More to my preference is that the new Characters EJ Jeremiah just looked that much better with the new articlation points... For some reason the new characters just seem to be better all around to me. I didn't want to be but damn it... they made me love Gnesis 8.
Thanks for the help.
There is no doubt that Genesis 3 and 8 are superior figures in many ways, but the figure is just one part of what makes a final image. In terms of bending, the Genesis figures are indeed much more realistic, but many images have simple "at rest" poses that the older figures can cope with very well. For the majority of portraits, for example, the figure bending doesn't come in to it. Perhaps the point that I'm trying to make is the old one - "It isn't the tools, it's the artist." As much as I enjoy making pictures and I do occasionally use them in my work, I am more than aware of what a skilled artist can do and I know that I can't come close to that no matter which figures I use. I think that perhaps you are also underestimating the role of postwork in some of the best work that we see (whether that be at amateur level, or at Hollywood blockbuster level).
I don't want to post a link to another site in case it's taken as advertising, but please take a look over and Rendo at a texture set called Dublin by Danae. The set is over 6 years old, but to my eye it still competes very well with some of the most recent figures - but once again, it's more down to the lighting and textures that the actual figure.
Maybe the fact that we disagree just proves the point that a lot of people have made that "realism" is very subjective. No matter which figures people are using, as long as they are having fun or making money (or preferably both) then the tools that they use to get there don't really matter.
Bravo! Danae and her Metropolitan collection has been the source of many discussions because yes, she does the most remarkable skin because she doesn't remove the details like they do with all the other characters... Notice how the skin has a lovely multi colored hue that varies in the appriate places.. Danae used actual photographs from real woman to construct those characters and unfortunately.. I haven't heard from her since 2015.. she was Greek and her area of the world was in crises.. I emailed a request for her to work on a Genesis 8 character just the other day... I haven't heard back yet.
If I could take "London"'s or "Toyko" 4.2 skin and put them on a G8 character.. I'd use it in every render just like I use to use Danae's back in the day.... Here is one of them from my own gallery...
From a pure skin overlay perspective.. You are right on the money and let's hope that your words are heard by all the artist making new characters.
Well, that's what this is for: https://www.daz3d.com/legacy-uvs-for-genesis-8-victoria-4
You'll need to convert the presets to .duf first.
I've got to agree here about the quality of those characters, and thank you for sharing the render. I might have a go at converting some of those textures to Genesis 3, use the Iray converter for generation 4 figures and then move it to Genesis 8 and see how it turns out. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out - it could be that without the original morphs and SSS it might not be quite what it was, but on the other hand, the iray renderer might do a nice job.
On a slightly different note - it's been very interesting discussing this with you. Thank you.
It is subjective but for me it's Phx Cameron for Michael 8 by Phoenix1966. His eyes are so beautiful and so reel. I look at his eyes (particularly the blue- and green one) every day and I think I will do that for the rest of my life :).
You know what it is.. Once again, I'm making Frankenstien characters.. OK.. so I took the character Benita for V8 back into testing and personally, I thought the skin was excellent.. I loved how you could see lines in the skin in close up details. What I didn't like were the eyes and the very masculine (in my opinion) looking face.
I really like the eyes I just picked up from Lyra... so I put her eyes in Benita and then took off the face morph and replaced it with something more pleasing to my own eye and thats one more character for the books.
I didn't like the skin for Lyra... I'm finding it hard to work with and that it gets easily washed out in the light.. Maybe its because its such a light skin.. still those eyes.. :)
Several of the characters look very real 'at a distance' and distance is there best friends.. when you get in for close up details they tend to crumble next to real photographs that they should look like.
It's very kind of you to give the link, but unfortunately, whilst there are several ways to get the texture maps to a Genesis series character, it isn't possible (as far as I am aware) to transfer the sub surface scattering shaders from Poser to Daz Studio. The product that you've linked above does take a lot of the work out of transferring older characters, but you then have to try to duplicate the morphs and the shaders. I've spent about an hour this afternoon trying to port the Dublin character to Genesis 8. It's actually starting to look ok, but I don't think I'll get it quite like the original. On the other hand, it's an experiment in seeing just how much use my library of V4 textures can be in DS with Iray.
As I just wrote above, I spent about an hour earlier this afternoon getting Dublin onto Genesis 8, via Genesis 3. Which figure did I use as the Genesis 8 base? Lyra! Which eyes did I use after applying the texture? Lyra! I'm just going to put it down to "great minds think alike" - or maybe Lyra is just a really versatile character. Had to go out to buy food, but I'm going to keep working on this now that I'm back. If I like the result, I'll be converting some of the other Danae textures now that I've got them in my mind.
Indeed, that will enable you to use the textures and existing DS materials, it won't help at all with Poser to DS material conversions. But you'd have the same problem using them on V4 in DS anyway.
I agree, Lyra is a beautiful character and of all the female G8s I've probably used her the most so far...now there's a younger version and another great looking character with it in the store? Urgh....decisions, decisions. I really want that Josh Crockett alien tho. LOL
Laurie
Exactly - that's the main reason that it's a pain to use V4 in DS if you want to use Iray. Luckily though, there are some very clever merchants here who have developed some great solutions and put them in the store. I wish that I understood the shaders that well.
Thanks for the inspiration... You really got me thinking.. I've already got Milan V4 on Genesis 2 and even though she's not made for Iray.. I gotta tell you that girl is still a work of art...
I do think its very interesting to see the two next to each other so we can illustrate for everybody to see... Still you can see the refinements of the HD on Victoria 8.. now if we can get those kind of color variation details.. it would be Nirvana :) Or if I can just figure out how to move it to Victoria 8 myself.. Hmmm What are you doing? I wouldn't know where to start ...
From what we were saying earlier about the different generations of figures, here we can definitely agree - the Genesis 3 and 8 figures have the generation 4 beaten when it comes to full body poses. It's a day of coincidence - I want to look at my "new" dublin character compared with the old one, so right now my machine is rendering on the GPU in DS and on the CPU in Poser so that I can get a comparison of the two characters.
As for the conversion itself, here's what I've done:
1) Blacksmith3D's Texture Converter to convert from V4 to Genesis 3.
2) V3Digitimes's Iray Smart Converter and Advanced Skin Managers for Genesis 3 to convert the skin to Iray (managed to get this in the sale back in September)
3) Saved as a Material Preset.
4) New scene, then applied the saved material to Genesis 8 (I used Lyra as a starting point).
5) Replaced the eyes.
6) Loaded V4 with Dublin into DS and tweaked the morphs on Genesis 8 to get as close as I could (which isn't ever going to be very close - there is a reason I use DS and Poser instead of drawing by hand).
I am sure that this could be done in lots of other ways - the V4 UV maps that Leana mentioned above would be another way to start.
I'll post the comparison I'm rendering now in this thread if Poser ever finishes rendering. Do please let me know how you get on if you try converting any of the characters you mentioned.
In another comparison I put Danea's Milan 4 (which was always my favorite) next to one that I would recommened which is Deva3D Estel.. granted, I gave her lipstick from another character but I think the results look like I Frankenstiened another real looking character... What do you think?
Oh wait.. I think this one might be just a little better to demonstrate Estel 8 skin on Vic 8 morph vs Milan 4 on Gen 2 body
.
Anyways.. I'm finding enough real looking options already that I don't have to worry about resurrecting them.. it would be nice if somebody can make it easy to convert... but in the meantime... if you need some brown sugar, try Kiara 8... she looks very realistic too.
https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-kiara-hd-for-victoria-8
That's looking very good. I do think that it's great to use bought content as a starting point, and then mix and match to create unique characters as you are doing there. Also, added Kiara to my wish list, which grows longer every day.
I went back to the previous recommendation to give Lyra 8 HD a fair go... Yeah, I felt like she was too skinny (personal taste) so I fattened her up with a bell curve morph and then she really popped out as realistic.. but if I'm looking for stunning beauty.. I don't think so... she's be a back up character.
Now I'm investigating that recommendation by "Agent Unawares" (nod) and I'm downloading Lainey 8 who looks like she might be a good Angelina in Tomb Raider character... I'll get back on that one but hopefully people will start showing off some of their realistic characters... Thanks in advance.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps if you want absolutely drop dead goergous how about
https://www.daz3d.com/lydia-hd-for-victoria-7
To me this is a bit too perfect. I'll probably continue to try and make characters with... character. Cute sure, beautiful too, to me anyway. But these too perfect women, where I get the feeling that they could never exist, or if they did they would spend all their time in the gym or under a scalpel. That just bores me.
Anyway, I'm so happy to even read my name in a thread like this! Thanks so much all
I'll leave this here too. It's a promo for my girls that didn't make the cut. They've fallen asleep on top of each other (they are not dead, I assure you!).
Ah, G8 only. Sorry, shouldn't post just before bed.
I strongly agree with you and what I'm hoping to see are characters that have so much details in the skin that they look like real people instead of everybody using the same stale old "merchant resource" that has washed out skin with no "real details". The skin should look real because it has so much detail .. we want fingerprints on the fingers and palm prints on the palms. The under side of the arm should be a different color from the top of the arms since thats how it is on every human alive.. look at your own skin and make it look like that! I have micro hairs and small scrapes and freckles.. we need all the details.
Thanks for making a great character. Keep up the great work...