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Possible Issue with G8F Characters?

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  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    Yeah, I got this with Vicky 8 and OOT's Megapack clothing right off the bat after G8 came out. It's definitely NOT a Lyoness issue or even with the clothing...it's Autofit with G8F. Disappointing, but fixable with smoothing. ;)

    Laurie 

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Report the post and have a mod alter the name. I’ve had mods replace the word genitals with anatomical elements. So I know they can alter thread titles

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,894
    AllenArt said:

    Yeah, I got this with Vicky 8 and OOT's Megapack clothing right off the bat after G8 came out. It's definitely NOT a Lyoness issue or even with the clothing...it's Autofit with G8F. Disappointing, but fixable with smoothing. ;)

    Laurie 

    OK, Anatomical Elelemnts added to title - if Lyoness complains I'm blaming you.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Har! Noted.

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,121
    edited October 2017

    This will be available for Genesis 8.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • LyonessLyoness Posts: 1,632
    Zev0 said:

    This will be available for Genesis 8.

    I love fit control!

    Thank you Zev!!

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    heart

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,322
    Fisty said:
    xyer0 said:
    Fisty said:

    Smoothing itterations basically iron out lumps and take the mesh back to its original state (if it's modeled to handle it, it can do weird things sometimes) if its set to base shape matching.  If it's set to generic then it smooths out lumps in just an averaging type way (that will also iron out modeled in details like edge trim so not always good to use) How high you set those itterations determines how strong the effect is.. that's why you get some pokethrough a lot if times when you set it really high, base G8F has about size C breasts and if the morph you're fitting the clothing to has DD's the smoothing is effectively ironing out lumps but it's also making that breast size smaller (thus the breasts out, breasts wider, breasts larger, etc adjustment morphs to make them bigger again).  The collision itterations do just that, that's the part that gets rid of minor poke-though, lower seems to work better most of the time like 1-3, past that it can cause issues with knees and armpits and cause exploading mesh.  By baking the smoothed morph you get to turn the smoothing back down to normal and not have to wait 10 seconds for it to calculate anytime you change the slightest thing, cause that gets annoying.  It's a very handy tool for making fit morphs, most of them in the Blooming outfit were made that way, it gives better results than trying to smoothing things out manually in a modeling progam.  Some of them I just baked the smoothed morph and that was great, most of them I also did touchups afterwards (especially if I needed to use very high smoothing) but it's still way easier and ends up cleaner than doing it from scratch.

    Super helpful and uber-informative! Thank you so much. I will be using this every time I dress a female.

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    It doesn't work with every piece of clothing, the mesh has to be made in such a way that it can handle it, it also has to have enough adjustment morphs..  so your milage may vary.  I remodel and revise things multiple times so they will work but it's a struggle with some designs. Once Fit control comes out it'll be a lot easier.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    agent unawares said:
    Lyoness said:
     
    agent unawares said:

    This is what projection morphs are for. No one makes projection morphs for their characters though.

    To date, projection morphs have not been needed or part of the character making assets.  I will gladly look into them

    No, they're not needed. They're just useful for avoiding the shrink-wrapping effect.

     

    can we make our own projection thingees for the characters? 

    or is it a special tool for vendors like the HD thingee?

     

    i am groot smiley

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,121
    edited October 2017

    Anybody can make projection thingies:)

    https://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Creating-Dialed-Projection-Morphs-482940785

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    TYsmiley  

  • mrposermrposer Posts: 1,134

    If the breasts don't fit... you must smooth it

     

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    Smooth it good.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,970

    Worth poking my head in for the previous two posts. lol 

  • FletcherFletcher Posts: 63

    One of the most informative threads of the year, unfortunately at the expense of hurting some feelings.

  • xyer0xyer0 Posts: 6,322
    Fisty said:

    It doesn't work with every piece of clothing, the mesh has to be made in such a way that it can handle it, it also has to have enough adjustment morphs..  so your milage may vary.  I remodel and revise things multiple times so they will work but it's a struggle with some designs. Once Fit control comes out it'll be a lot easier.

    Thanks for the caveats. I remember when more than a few vendors put morphs into clothes that covered every arc and angle of the body. And tops had some thickness. I struggled fixing shrink wrapped breasts convincingly with G3F Fit Control. Sometimes I got it, but most times it still looked wonky.

     

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,970
    xyer0 said:
    Fisty said:

    It doesn't work with every piece of clothing, the mesh has to be made in such a way that it can handle it, it also has to have enough adjustment morphs..  so your milage may vary.  I remodel and revise things multiple times so they will work but it's a struggle with some designs. Once Fit control comes out it'll be a lot easier.

    Thanks for the caveats. I remember when more than a few vendors put morphs into clothes that covered every arc and angle of the body. And tops had some thickness. I struggled fixing shrink wrapped breasts convincingly with G3F Fit Control. Sometimes I got it, but most times it still looked wonky.

     

    This is why DForce is such an exciting prospect (once they get the bugs worked out). Getting more realistic draping and gravity-like effects on the clothing is fantastic! 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    Fisty said:

    Smooth it good.

    Thanks. Now I've got Devo in my head. LOL

    Laurie

  • ArtisanSArtisanS Posts: 209

    Divamakeup....I can't wait to get my hands on it, but experience shows me (Blender 2.79 cloth branch, for instance) that this proces can also be a bit tricky, to say the least. But used right it will be cool. I wondering wether only DAZ PA's will be able to use this functionality (vertexgroup pinning, material editing as I do in Blender) or that anyone can have a go at i, but I guess we will find that out in the not so distant future.

    Greets, Artisan

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401

    Greetings,

    {mumble mumble} I have an idea for a solution to this that's a little different... {mumble mumble}

    I've been experimenting with automatically detecting vertices that have crumpled like that, by comparing the auto-followed edge lengths to the edge lengths in the UV map, and softening them (similar to the Hexagon 'Soften' tool) by trying to normalize those edge lengths, and then building it as a DAZ Studio plugin.  It's not ideal yet, but it's a really interesting process...but it looks like the dForce stuff might obsolete it.  Although if you have to do weight-map painting to get the dForce stuff to work, it might still be useful.

    Anyway, underboob crumple (and 'twixt leg divoting on skirts) has been the bane of non-DAZ figures for the longest time for me.  My go-to solution is typically to involve Hexagon to smooth it out, and I've gotten very good at it (which is why I'm trying to replicate that repetitive action via a DAZ plugin) but I know that's a bunch of work for most folks.  I even own most of the tools (like SY's fixers) to fix stuff like that, but they're generic, and so they don't always result in the kind of smooth hanging look that I know the underlying clothing is capable of.  And don't get me started on shirts that have a repeated texture pattern on them...the slightest alteration of where things go in the chest (commonly for younger or older characters) makes lined/striped shirts look like dazzle camoflauge, and that's REALLY hard to fix with general-purpose helpers.  Again, that's where the Soften tool/concept shines.

    We'll see how well dForce fixes that, as to whether I shelve my own project.

    --  Morgan

     

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416
    ArtisanS said:

    I wondering wether only DAZ PA's will be able to use this functionality (vertexgroup pinning, material editing as I do in Blender) or that anyone can have a go at i, but I guess we will find that out in the not so distant future.

    Anyone can use any of of the d-force tools on any mesh they want, the benefits of PA made clothes for d-force is everything will be set up already so it's much closer to plug and play.  If you like to tinker, go ahead and tinker all you want.

  • UthgardUthgard Posts: 878
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    {mumble mumble} I have an idea for a solution to this that's a little different... {mumble mumble}

    I've been experimenting with automatically detecting vertices that have crumpled like that, by comparing the auto-followed edge lengths to the edge lengths in the UV map, and softening them (similar to the Hexagon 'Soften' tool) by trying to normalize those edge lengths, and then building it as a DAZ Studio plugin.  It's not ideal yet, but it's a really interesting process...but it looks like the dForce stuff might obsolete it.  Although if you have to do weight-map painting to get the dForce stuff to work, it might still be useful.

    Anyway, underboob crumple (and 'twixt leg divoting on skirts) has been the bane of non-DAZ figures for the longest time for me.  My go-to solution is typically to involve Hexagon to smooth it out, and I've gotten very good at it (which is why I'm trying to replicate that repetitive action via a DAZ plugin) but I know that's a bunch of work for most folks.  I even own most of the tools (like SY's fixers) to fix stuff like that, but they're generic, and so they don't always result in the kind of smooth hanging look that I know the underlying clothing is capable of.  And don't get me started on shirts that have a repeated texture pattern on them...the slightest alteration of where things go in the chest (commonly for younger or older characters) makes lined/striped shirts look like dazzle camoflauge, and that's REALLY hard to fix with general-purpose helpers.  Again, that's where the Soften tool/concept shines.

    We'll see how well dForce fixes that, as to whether I shelve my own project.

    --  Morgan

     

    As someone who just started dipping his toes on Hexagon and has been playing around with VWD, I think your tool would be invaluable. Even if dForce introduces easy to use integrated cloth simulation, having the simulated object free of crumpled or stretched out polygons would be very beneficial for a believable simulation, as, otherwise, the faults in the mesh would interfere with the draping (if there's more or less cloth than there should be and if said cloth is deformed, the result won't be up to par). Of course, you are the expert and the one who decides whether this will be worth your while, but I strongly encourage you to continue. If anything, it will reduce my hair pulling.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,664
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    {mumble mumble} I have an idea for a solution to this that's a little different... {mumble mumble}

    I've been experimenting with automatically detecting vertices that have crumpled like that, by comparing the auto-followed edge lengths to the edge lengths in the UV map, and softening them (similar to the Hexagon 'Soften' tool) by trying to normalize those edge lengths, and then building it as a DAZ Studio plugin.  It's not ideal yet, but it's a really interesting process...but it looks like the dForce stuff might obsolete it.  Although if you have to do weight-map painting to get the dForce stuff to work, it might still be useful.

    Anyway, underboob crumple (and 'twixt leg divoting on skirts) has been the bane of non-DAZ figures for the longest time for me.  My go-to solution is typically to involve Hexagon to smooth it out, and I've gotten very good at it (which is why I'm trying to replicate that repetitive action via a DAZ plugin) but I know that's a bunch of work for most folks.  I even own most of the tools (like SY's fixers) to fix stuff like that, but they're generic, and so they don't always result in the kind of smooth hanging look that I know the underlying clothing is capable of.  And don't get me started on shirts that have a repeated texture pattern on them...the slightest alteration of where things go in the chest (commonly for younger or older characters) makes lined/striped shirts look like dazzle camoflauge, and that's REALLY hard to fix with general-purpose helpers.  Again, that's where the Soften tool/concept shines.

    We'll see how well dForce fixes that, as to whether I shelve my own project.

    --  Morgan

    I've been using dForce to address the issue:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/205426/yoda-says-use-dforce-to-fight-static-cling

    I do think that having a solution that's specific to the figure and clothing can yield better results. Really doesn't take long at all once you get familiar, and you never have to leave DS.

    - Greg

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