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Genesis 8 not already HD?

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Comments

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Hd is part of how the character actually looks. Selling it separate from the character means you are selling the figure without essential details

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    Llynara said:
    Derry's Work said:

    I saw a Victoria 8 HD morph today.  I thought the Genesis 8 meshes were already HD.  I realize I didn't read it in any of the descriptions, but I guess I wrongly assumed this.

    I assumed this too and am pretty annoyed that it isn't the case. I thought that was one of the selling points of Genesis 8. Not happy to find out there are yet more "add-ons" needed for the HD. It should be part of the new line and the Pro packs. 

    Yeah, I think I agree. Plus, there is just NO way that I'm going to pay 40 smackers regular price for an HD morph. No way. I'm not even going to pay 23 and change. It's just too much. I don't normally complain too much about prices but holy smokes....

    Laurie

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    Serene Night said:

    Hd is part of how the character actually looks. Selling it separate from the character means you are selling the figure without essential details

    DAZ obviously disagrees or they would make it at the same time as the figure it's intended for.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    daywalker03 said:
    Serene Night said:

    Hd is part of how the character actually looks. Selling it separate from the character means you are selling the figure without essential details

    DAZ obviously disagrees or they would make it at the same time as the figure it's intended for.

    They DO. It's the base mesh the normal maps are based off of. (At least supposedly very much like exactly the same details).

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,973
    AllenArt said:
    Llynara said:
    Derry's Work said:

    I saw a Victoria 8 HD morph today.  I thought the Genesis 8 meshes were already HD.  I realize I didn't read it in any of the descriptions, but I guess I wrongly assumed this.

    I assumed this too and am pretty annoyed that it isn't the case. I thought that was one of the selling points of Genesis 8. Not happy to find out there are yet more "add-ons" needed for the HD. It should be part of the new line and the Pro packs. 

    Yeah, I think I agree. Plus, there is just NO way that I'm going to pay 40 smackers regular price for an HD morph. No way. I'm not even going to pay 23 and change. It's just too much. I don't normally complain too much about prices but holy smokes....

    Laurie

    +1 

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,843
    Llynara said:

    The advertising sure made it sound like the character was HD. Not the first time advertising here has been misleading and/or downright confusing. 

    maybe I missed the ads or promos but i never saw anything that promoted G8 as HD. If anything, I saw plenty of posts about how she is less detailed than G7, one of the main reasons I haven't jumped on the G8 bandwagon yet.

     

    RawArt said:
    Derry's Work said:
    RawArt said:

    The V8 HD product is a set of High Definition morphs for V8 to bring an extra amount of detail.

    It does not change the actual mesh of the Genesis 8 figure, it just uses a subdivided mesh to bring in details that you would not ordinarily be able to achieve with a base level mesh.

    See the details between the pic on the left and the one on the right?......the right is the HD details

     

    I understand that for sure.  I just thought the whole purpose of Genesis 8 was to add HD functionality to the mesh instead of making it just like Genesis 3 then adding an HD mesh for like gaming.

    HD does nto add anything to the mesh.

    All Genesis figures have the capacity for having HD morphs added to them

    The HD is a result of D/S allowing meshes to be subdivided within the program, so that can actually be applied to any figure. All that is required to make HD morphs is the HD morph tool that DAZ supplies to their PA's. What we do then is subdivide the mesh we are working on, sculpt onto that HD mesh, and then import it back in with the HD morph tool.

    So the HD is  a functionality of D/S not a functionality of the mesh object.

    Hope that clears things up

     

    So what is the difference between the HD morph and just cranking up the subd in the first place?

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    Cranking up subd doesn't make details appear that aren't set up to be there.

    A flat table with lots of subd is still a flat table.

     

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    daywalker03 said:
    Serene Night said:

    DAZ obviously disagrees or they would make it at the same time as the figure it's intended

     

    I'm not sure that means they disagree. Selling them separately does however make more profit.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    Serene Night said:
    daywalker03 said:
    Serene Night said:

    DAZ obviously disagrees or they would make it at the same time as the figure it's intended

     

    I'm not sure that means they disagree. Selling them separately does however make more profit.

    What percentage of DAZ Original figures get HD addons?

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    edited September 2017

    I think most of the major male and female adult-type figures. They don't seem to make them for kid or Thorne-type characters or toons, but that makes sense given their style. Some of the second stringer type characters like the zombies and the vampires had it too if  I recall and it was included with their bundles.

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    IMNSHO HD morphs are only useful when you need the extra detail to be truly 3 dimensional like on many of RawArt's creature and muscular characters.  Although I wish the navel and nipples where HD on the base figures.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    jestmart said:

    IMNSHO HD morphs are only useful when you need the extra detail to be truly 3 dimensional like on many of RawArt's creature and muscular characters.  Although I wish the navel and nipples where HD on the base figures.

    I think the navel and mouth details have an HD option, but I don't believe the nipples do. And I agree for muscular characters and instances where parts of the body are visible; this is why I like Zev0's vascularity morphs. Only exposed parts of the body can be dialed in, whereas a full body HD morph like Victoria affects even the parts that aren't seen.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    edited September 2017

    I think that is a good point. Being able to disable the invisible hd on bodyparts would be useful. Especially since hd on gen 8 seems to cause a fair amount of pokethrough. I'd like to be able to dial in the hands and perhaps lower arms and bits that are exposed from clothing

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,555
    edited September 2017

    still reinstalling everything but might have to reinstall everything again but here is a quick test preview og M/V8 hd yeah her right hand going into her thigh but this is just a preview https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/437931

    image

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,973

    I bump up the Normals and Bump maps and it gives a similar effect WITHOUT shelling out an additional 20-40 bucks.

    Dear Daz, include the HD as part of the character pack and quit this greedy doubling of the cost of a character if someone dares to want the HD bits. 

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    I picked up the hd morphs of Michael 8 and my eyes are not great but the distinction between the figure with and without hd is not strong as I would like. I use hd on all the guys to take away the overly smooth hands and faces. I was expecting more of a difference really as I can see slight pucker  here a slight dent there but not the same strong difference that I saw when using it on gen 7 males. 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    HD for human figures is mainly useful for portraits or other close ups.

    Now, for weirder stuff, HD can help capture small curls and specific elements that the base mesh can't define.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 6,070
    divamakeup said:

    I bump up the Normals and Bump maps and it gives a similar effect WITHOUT shelling out an additional 20-40 bucks.

    Dear Daz, include the HD as part of the character pack and quit this greedy doubling of the cost of a character if someone dares to want the HD bits. 

    Normals and bumps are not the same as HD morphs.

    Normals and bumps (if used properly) simply provide minor skin details, small wrinkles and pores. Whereas proper HD morphs change the shape of the figure to a much more realistic look. It provides the ability to create organic looking muscle structure, deep set wrinkles and and shaping to the figure.

    It is not greed that causes HD morphs to cost more, the simple fact for the cost is that HD morphs require alot more work than regular morphs and are not quick and easy to make. Someone at daz has to spend a significant amount of time to make all these details. So that time equates to expenses, and therefore costs.

     

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    RawArt said:
    divamakeup said:

    I bump up the Normals and Bump maps and it gives a similar effect WITHOUT shelling out an additional 20-40 bucks.

    Dear Daz, include the HD as part of the character pack and quit this greedy doubling of the cost of a character if someone dares to want the HD bits. 

    Normals and bumps are not the same as HD morphs.

    Normals and bumps (if used properly) simply provide minor skin details, small wrinkles and pores. Whereas proper HD morphs change the shape of the figure to a much more realistic look. It provides the ability to create organic looking muscle structure, deep set wrinkles and and shaping to the figure.

    It is not greed that causes HD morphs to cost more, the simple fact for the cost is that HD morphs require alot more work than regular morphs and are not quick and easy to make. Someone at daz has to spend a significant amount of time to make all these details. So that time equates to expenses, and therefore costs.

     

    Are the HD morphs for DS flagship characters not the same sculpt the normal maps are made from that ship with the base character?

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 6,070
    agent unawares said:
    RawArt said:
    divamakeup said:

    I bump up the Normals and Bump maps and it gives a similar effect WITHOUT shelling out an additional 20-40 bucks.

    Dear Daz, include the HD as part of the character pack and quit this greedy doubling of the cost of a character if someone dares to want the HD bits. 

    Normals and bumps are not the same as HD morphs.

    Normals and bumps (if used properly) simply provide minor skin details, small wrinkles and pores. Whereas proper HD morphs change the shape of the figure to a much more realistic look. It provides the ability to create organic looking muscle structure, deep set wrinkles and and shaping to the figure.

    It is not greed that causes HD morphs to cost more, the simple fact for the cost is that HD morphs require alot more work than regular morphs and are not quick and easy to make. Someone at daz has to spend a significant amount of time to make all these details. So that time equates to expenses, and therefore costs.

     

    Are the HD morphs for DS flagship characters not the same sculpt the normal maps are made from that ship with the base character?

    That would be doubtful...though you could ask daz

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990

    Honestly normal and HD kinda need to match up or they'll fight each other. Unless you really limit one to fine and one to larger, maybe medium detail. These before/after images may seem slightly misleading as there's no normal map plugged in. On the other hand they show exactly what the HD morph does so it's all good. Some details in HD morph seem not to be present in the normal map, after a quick glance anyway. Navel detail for example. Mostly it seems the same though.

    In any case, the HD morph is still going to give you better result than the normal map. Stronger, cleaner, visible from more angles than a normal map which has some limitations. Also keep in mind that this HD technology had to be developed and cannot be found in any other software to my knowledge. So you also pay for this unique tech to exist in the first place.

  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    edited September 2017
    bluejaunte said:

    Also keep in mind that this HD technology had to be developed and cannot be found in any other software to my knowledge. So you also pay for this unique tech to exist in the first place.

    The only part that doesn't exist in other software is the artificial limitation that prevents non-PAs from using HD to create morphs.

    Post edited by agent unawares on
  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 6,067

    I'm not unduly surprised or vexed over the 'HS status' of G8M.  What does rankle a little is, as has been highlighted by anoter thread, is that there os no adam's apple morph for the male character - seriously?

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990
    edited September 2017
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:

    Also keep in mind that this HD technology had to be developed and cannot be found in any other software to my knowledge. So you also pay for this unique tech to exist in the first place.

    The only part that doesn't exist in other software is the artificial limitation that prevents non-PAs from using HD to create morphs.

    Nah. In the rest of the industry it is common to use either normal or displacement maps for fine detail. This is not a workflow that exists outside of Daz Studio. Unless you wanna render millions of polys in ZBrush directly but that is not done often except maybe for some beauty/portfolio shots. Even then there's probably a limitation to how many polys can be rendered so again the workflow is remesh and bake fine details to texture maps.

    Post edited by bluejaunte on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:

    Also keep in mind that this HD technology had to be developed and cannot be found in any other software to my knowledge. So you also pay for this unique tech to exist in the first place.

    The only part that doesn't exist in other software is the artificial limitation that prevents non-PAs from using HD to create morphs.

    Nah. In the rest of the industry it is common to use either normal or displacement maps for fine detail. This is not a workflow that exists outside of Daz Studio. Unless you wanna render millions of polys in ZBrush directly but that is not done often except maybe for some beauty/portfolio shots. Even then there's probably a limitation to how many polys can be rendered so again the workflow is remesh and bake fine details to texture maps.

    You're absolutely correct that most workflows have already moved past HD geometry. That does not prevent using HD geometry in other software.

  • LarryadLarryad Posts: 35

    This is nothing new. They have been selling the HD-Add On figures since I think, Michael 6 as a separate purchase. There is usually one for every figure they release. I think it's wrong myself and should be included as part of the bundle release package.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:

    Also keep in mind that this HD technology had to be developed and cannot be found in any other software to my knowledge. So you also pay for this unique tech to exist in the first place.

    The only part that doesn't exist in other software is the artificial limitation that prevents non-PAs from using HD to create morphs.

    Nah. In the rest of the industry it is common to use either normal or displacement maps for fine detail. This is not a workflow that exists outside of Daz Studio. Unless you wanna render millions of polys in ZBrush directly but that is not done often except maybe for some beauty/portfolio shots. Even then there's probably a limitation to how many polys can be rendered so again the workflow is remesh and bake fine details to texture maps.

    You're absolutely correct that most workflows have already moved past HD geometry. That does not prevent using HD geometry in other software.

    Can you explain this more? I'm not following.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    edited September 2017

    Changed my mind. Not going to argue, since it doesn't seem to matter that some folks don't want it.

    Post edited by Daywalker Designs on
  • agent unawaresagent unawares Posts: 3,513
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:

    Also keep in mind that this HD technology had to be developed and cannot be found in any other software to my knowledge. So you also pay for this unique tech to exist in the first place.

    The only part that doesn't exist in other software is the artificial limitation that prevents non-PAs from using HD to create morphs.

    Nah. In the rest of the industry it is common to use either normal or displacement maps for fine detail. This is not a workflow that exists outside of Daz Studio. Unless you wanna render millions of polys in ZBrush directly but that is not done often except maybe for some beauty/portfolio shots. Even then there's probably a limitation to how many polys can be rendered so again the workflow is remesh and bake fine details to texture maps.

    You're absolutely correct that most workflows have already moved past HD geometry. That does not prevent using HD geometry in other software.

    Can you explain this more? I'm not following.

    "HD technology" already exists in other software. Just because those softwares have smarter ways to render than using HD does not mean it does not exist. The only thing new to DAZ is that only PAs can make use of high subdivision effectively. In any other software anyone would be able to redistribute their high-poly mesh details.

  • bluejauntebluejaunte Posts: 1,990
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:
    agent unawares said:
    bluejaunte said:

    Also keep in mind that this HD technology had to be developed and cannot be found in any other software to my knowledge. So you also pay for this unique tech to exist in the first place.

    The only part that doesn't exist in other software is the artificial limitation that prevents non-PAs from using HD to create morphs.

    Nah. In the rest of the industry it is common to use either normal or displacement maps for fine detail. This is not a workflow that exists outside of Daz Studio. Unless you wanna render millions of polys in ZBrush directly but that is not done often except maybe for some beauty/portfolio shots. Even then there's probably a limitation to how many polys can be rendered so again the workflow is remesh and bake fine details to texture maps.

    You're absolutely correct that most workflows have already moved past HD geometry. That does not prevent using HD geometry in other software.

    Can you explain this more? I'm not following.

    "HD technology" already exists in other software. Just because those softwares have smarter ways to render than using HD does not mean it does not exist. The only thing new to DAZ is that only PAs can make use of high subdivision effectively. In any other software anyone would be able to redistribute their high-poly mesh details.

    Well but then can you make an example? I'm not really aware of any but maybe I just haven't kept up with latest tech.

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