Raiya and Outoftouch, Dylan and Super Messy Updo
DavidGB
Posts: 570
Outoftouch,
I'd have bought Super Messy Updo immediately if you'd included at least basic 3Delight materials. But you didn't, so I won't be buying it.
Raiya,
I'd be thinking hard about buying Dylan, and probably would end up buying him, if you'd included at least basic 3Delight materials. But you didn't, so I won't even be thinking of buying him.
You are two of the artists whose products I've liked and I've bought many of them over many years, but now you've stopped including 3Delight materials so I've stopped buying from you (except any older stuff from when you did support 3Delight with 3DL materials that I haven't bought yet but suddenly find a need for). There are a fair few other PAs who fall into this category with me (Sickleyield springs immediately to mind). Don't even need really fancy 3Delight materials - just any that apply all the texture maps would do.
Shame.
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Comments
If all you need is basic 3DL why not use this?
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/139326/irayto3delight-conversion-script
For 3DL you are probably using your own optimized shader settings anyway, right? I agree the conversion script is the answer to the growing market domination of Iray, it's one extra click and can be made a custom action so you never have to look for it.
One of the things I really like about OOT hair is all but the cap use the same texture images. I picked up one of his (her?) hairs over at Rendo over two years ago, and it's all 3Delight/Poser. It would be really easy to use that to create 3DL materials for any of the new hair OOT has released.
I like it when a product has both 3DL and Iray materials, even though I don't do much in 3DL. I like having the option, because I do still use 3DL from time-to-time. But I suspect the shift to Iray only materials reflects the market and what sells. Just as those of us who want more males and male support in hair, wardrobe, etc. have to accept that the money is in the females and especially female skimpwear.
Products have to be priced low enough to sell. The higher the initial price, the more likely even a great product like those from OOT and Raiya will end up in the Wishlist until we can get it for 60% off. But you can't really blame anyone for not wanting to put in the extra hours, (weeks?) to support two different render engines, (or three, if you include Poser,) when they can't realistically charge enough for the product to make up for the additional time.
Maybe you can convince OOT to do a 3DL version of the IrayPair Hair product, so you can easily convert almost any Iray hair to 3DL. I'd buy something like that.
And I've said since the first DS Beta with Iray, there really should be a "one button" conversion-to-3DL solution similar to the Iray Uber Base shader. I'm glad to see the free script linked above.
And for the record, the Dylan bundle went into my cart almost immediately, certainly faster than anything else that's been released in the PA Festival so far!
On another note: How about Ryan Hair, Nick Hair and Super Messy Updo Hair being versions of the same hair? For $77+. Back in the day, folk like Mairy put these in one package. Biscuits and Redz still do. Times must be hard.
Does Dylan work with Basic Genesis8 Male?
hesitating on dylan, looks like a texture seem below the hair line?
or the face texture stops too low on forehead?
He needs M8 to look right.
I don't see a texture seam when I load him. There are forehead wrinkles though.
I picked up both. Not keen on the female unisex hairline for Super Messy Updo. Guys have different hairlines than women do, and the generic female hairlines look odd.
Nick hair has some sideburns and masculine style on the side but the hairline on the top looks odd to me. Its rather low and undefined.
mebbe they left the scalp skin from the hair visible. ?
is like his rugged face stops too soon
Yeah, the top one is a forehead wrinkle and the side is a sideburn I think. His skin does get a bit smoother towards the scalp.
He does work, but he doesn't quite look the same. I've dialed out the M8 head and body morphs for the redhead:
Not the same, but not bad, either, imho. I like both!
Yes, without M8, he looks quite the normal Joe.
Technology changes. To me, getting mad at PAs for not including 3DL mats and settings is like getting mad at a musician for not releasing their album in CD and cassette tape formats. Or back in the day being mad at them for not releasing their albums on 8-track AND cassette tapes. And expecting PAs to release both is even worse than that - it's like expecting them to release both CD and Cassette Tape versions as well as bundling them up together and selling them both together for the same low price. It takes a lot of extra work to create mats and settings for two different render engines. Being mad at PAs for not supporting older and outdated technology isn't fair to the PAs.
being mad or just disappointed?
is moot point to me as I do not use DAZ studio to render or Genesis 8 for that matter but for those who do it's one of the integrated render engines and loved by many for years, as a Carrara user I can at least understand their pain but have admittedly had longer to learn how to adapt materials.
They can always do what I do of course, save money
I'm in love, this is one of the BEST looking male character since StudioArtVartanian's M4 series. Real and good looking too. Raiya, you have outdone yourself! Please more of this for G8 males. The Brows look so natural on him, not at all like a vulcan. So looking forward to natural brows on men. This and Michael 8 makes me very eagar for more male characters.
This is not technology changing. 3DL was and still is an industry standard software. Entire 3D animation films have been made with 3DL, and many other big movies have visual effects created by 3DL, movies you may have seen recently...can Iray make that claim?
These don't look outdated to me. Unlike Carara/Hexagon/ect, 3DL has been continually updated for years...except Daz has not updated its 3DL plugin ever since it signed that dotted line with Nvidia. (And let me make a disclaimer that all of this is MY SPECULATION, however, it it not unreasonable to come to such a conclusion.) If Daz's 3DL plugin had been updated properly (and all Daz has to do is update the plugin, just like they do when Nvidia updates Iray,) then 3DL would be far more competitive with Iray here. But that is not going to happen, and was never going to happen. It should be apparent that Nvidia desires priority or exclusive access, otherwise they would not have allowed Daz3D to use the plugin in the first place. So it has been a Iray-first mentality ever since Iray released.
Granted, it has worked out well for Daz. It looks like Daz has grown, as it is indeed easier to get going with Iray. Pretty much any fool can start making renders with Iray if they have any sort of decent hardware, even someone as dumb as me can use Iray. It is much harder to do that with 3DL, and to be honest, I never did figure 3DL out that well. But make no mistake, just like a variety of rendering engines out there, it comes down to the user's ability. And right now would be the perfect time get going with 3DL, with the new focus on high core count CPUs from both AMD and Intel. With these high core chips, home users now have access to power that rivals some servers of a few years ago. This hardware innovation will only make 3DL more viable in the future.
The thing that gets me is why does Dylan need Micheal 8 in the first place? It seems to me it should have been possible to sculpt him from base G8. As I do not have M8, that is the reason why I will pass on him (and yes, I saw the comparison posted above.) Plus that rather odd wrinkle/line on his forehead looks so out of place. Other than that, I think Dylan looks much better than Michael does.
Raiya has been using Victoria and Michael as the bases for her characters since she started (other than a few for the Aikos, S4 and Lilith 6). Most of the characters made for Genesis 3/8 males have that goofy look that they have shining through the morph, and it's not nice, imo.
You are mistaken. 3Delight was updated to version 12.0.27 for the intial DS 4.9 release, (the second release to support Iray.) You can see this in the Change Logs for 4.9.0.63. Among the improvements, people were seeing much faster render times.