Another video card thread
NGartplay
Posts: 3,404
Hi all, I was going to have a new computer built but then got the idea to see if one of my computers that I don't use could be upgraded. I have a Windows 8.1 that is like new. It's only been turned on around 40-50 times in over 2 years. The machine is an HP Envy. I want to put a 1080 ti video card into it. Someone elsewhere posted this link and I think it looks like a great card:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGDB71J/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I opened my computer up this weekend and it has an open PCIE X16 slot. The motherboard is an MS-7906 version 1.0. It has 2 Samsung 8GB cards with room for 2 more. The power supply is HP model DPS-300AB-73A max power 300W at 25 degree C or 260W at 50 degree C.
I'm looking for verification that it should work OR could possibly work then I'll purchase the video card and buy a new monitor. Will not hold anyone accountable for opinions or suggestions. If it doesn't work then I'll have a new computer bulit and use the video card in the built one. My concern is whether that's enough power supply or not.
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Comments
Hmm, unfortunately I doubt 300W supply will be enough. Based on reading [1], I'd recommend 600W supply at very least.
[1] http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review,7.html
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti - On your average system the card requires you to have a 600~650 Watts power supply unit.
If you are going to overclock your GPU or processor, then we do recommend you purchase something with some more stamina. And remeber, a PSU is the most efficient at 50% load. So if you use 400 Watts on average (SLI), the most energy friendly powersupply would be an 800 Watt model. There are many good PSUs out there, please do have a look at our many PSU reviews as we have loads of recommended PSUs for you to check out in there.
I also have an HP Envy, and if yours is like mine there isn't much space inside the small case for a big GPU. I also have a Dell of about the same size, and it was a bit of work to shoehorn my GTX 1070 inside. It worked, but ultimately I decided to get a mid-tower case and larger power supply and new MB. You may also need to get the correct power connector for the GPU, because the power supply might not have the correct one.
Generally, I think most people will suggest you get a larger PS, which also may or may not fit in your case. I continually monitor the total power used by my new Ryzen box with my GTX 1070, and when rendering it hovers just under 200watts. When I added my GTX 1070 to my old machine I went from a 500W power supply to a 750W power supply.
Bottom line, you may get away with it, but.....
Thanks Toonces, will have a look for sure. I wouldn't know how to overclock anything and I don't know what a PSU is. I'll go look at your link now and see if I get it.
Putting an 800W power supply in won't upset anything else in the system, will it?
edit - ok, PSU is the power supply?
If you go to NVIDIA's website and look the card up it will show you the power it needs but I would guess you probably need at least 600W. You have to take in to account all the other stuff in the computer which takes up that power, but PSU are reasonable inexpensive.
And by the way, just looked at newegg and prices for a 1080ti are around $750-800. Ouch.
Be careful at the power supply requirements that you'll hear from others...
I actually connected a power meter to my computer, and the usage I get is far below what everyone said it would be. And yeah, the mfr says what you'll need for a power supply, but I think they assume the worst.
My CPU, a new Ryzen 7 1700, has a TDP (total design power) of only 65 watts. Add some fans and stuff, and you'd be very hard pressed to get more than 150-200 watts with that plus the GTX 1070 running flat out. It's one of those areas that gets pretty hyped I think, but when you actually measure it might not be nearly as bad.
That being said, I'd get a bigger power supply only because they're cheap and will put you in a better place.
...when I built my system I prepared for upgrades and got a full tower case. It can handle up to a Titan-Xp (750w PSU) with my current card set just to run the displays.
Now if I could only afford a 1080 Ti, I'd be in business.
By the way, it's funny that the chart that was referenced said a GTX 1070 draws 160watts. And my power meter shows my entire system, including CPU, GTX 1070, case fans, and whatever else, is only drawing about 180 watts while doing a render, with my GPU at 100% utilization.
Yeah, I suppose if the CPU was also running all 16 threads flat out somehow, add the TDP of 65 watts will give maybe 250 watts. But I doubt I'll ever get there.
And I upgraded from a 500w power supply to a 750 watt power supply for a computer that draws only maybe 200watts.
Grain of salt....
Oh gosh, I got comments while I was off reading about my card. Thanks everyone. Toonces' link says that you should get a power supply that has the correct plugs so you don't have to use adapters. I'll put a new power supply on my list and it will be a minimum 600W but I'll probably go bigger if I can.
I thought that my HP Envy tower was a big case, lol. It's wider but slightly shorter than my old Dell XP and it's wider and taller than my Windows 7 HP.
I figure if my husband can afford $130/month for TV cable I deserve a new video card after 8 years ;) The only reason it matters to me is that I can't run Substance Painter on any of my 3 computers. I love that program and want something that will run it.
@ebergerly - Remember most power meters are giving you 'average' power consumption. Peak consumption at any given moment may be considerably larger. You can get spikes WELL above that. I've tested my own system (i7, two 1080s, etc.) and while my AVERAGE power draw is around 80-120w the PEAK power has hit 700w. I've got a 1000w PS in there, so plenty of headroom. Remember, you don't want to run your PS too close to it's maximums. I recommend at least 20% headroom for safety. If your max power draw is 600w, try to have at least a 720w power supply. And always get one that is 80+ certified.
My power meter updates every second, so I don't think that's an issue. It does have an averaging mode, but I keep mine in realtime mode.
By the way, how do you know your peak hits 700watts?
Also, keep in mind that when you turn on a power supply, it has some big capacitors which cause a big "inrush" current for a moment when you turn it on. Standard stuff, and maybe that's the reason you saw a big peak?
Here's a Texas Instruments explanation:
https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/archive/2015/03/31/powertips-how-to-limit-inrush-current-in-an-ac-dc-power-supply
Dont skimp on PSU quality, not worth it.
Get a rated one, Bronze would be ok, but look for better if you can.
@ ebergerly, what motherboard did you buy?
Will this card fit into a PCIE X16 slot or does it use PEG? I thought it would fit a PCIE X16 but now I'm not sure because Tom's Hardware put it into a PEG.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti,4972-6.html
And am I seeing it correctly that it's 12" long? wowzers.
High-End power meter (Hioki 3334 - https://www.hioki.com/en/products/detail/?product_key=5812 ). One-second resolution isn't enough for watching peak consumption. You need something a lot faster. This wasn't at power-up, this was during serious render activity. In-rush start-up current isn't a big issue, as it's primarily on the AC side of the switching power supply. With something like PCs, peaks can be as short as a couple of milliseconds. And they can happen VERY frequently.
(Electrical Engineer here.)
So being an electrical engineer you realize that a big peak of power for a fraction of a second might be fine for a piece of equipment, right? It's the big peaks for a long time that can damage equipment.
Just sayin'...
And BTW, you're measuring on the AC side, right? So an AC phenomenon like inrush would show in your meter.
I decided to get a Ryzen CPU and motherboard, which was an x370. The existing motherboards in my Dell and HP desktops were little tiny things. So I got a mid-tower case and full ATX motherboard, and now I can fit two GPU's in the PCIe slots.
The concern I mentioned was physical space inside the case. The cards are very long, and the new, larger power supplies are also big, and it might be tough to fit them in with all the wires and cables. And I think the Dell and HP and other computers are designed specifically for the included equipment, without a lot of concern about future expansion.
Took me about 20 minutes to shoehorn the 750 watt power supply inside the Dell XPS8900, moving cables and trying to fit it inside the metal brackets and so on. And the HP Envy is about the same size.
It worked, but in the end I decided to go for a new machine with lots of future expansion.
Actually, when you are riding the edge of specs, those power peak spikes can KILL your equipment. This is why I always recommend speccing power supplies for at LEAST 20% headroom (I usually do 33%). Remember, real power is the area UNDER the curve of that 'spike'. While the 'average' for a second or two might be considerably less than 'maximum rating' that spike could exceed component specs. If it doesn't kill the PSU outright, it will certainly damage it slowly over time.
Total Real Power is the same on each side of the PSU. Basic electrical engineering. Power in = power out (discounting the very small heat losses on the AC side of the switching circuits.) And yes, I could measure in-rush current and power easily when the PSU first engages. But as I said, this was NOT during PSU startup. And, for comparison, the in-rush power at startup was only about 280w, for about 20ms. Which, I might add, was decently close to what I calculated based on the smoothing capacitors charging up and reaching steady-state.
Yea reading about that
You would be killing a 1080ti putting it into that hp envy. I have two 1080 tis and two 1070s. Just running one 1080 ti for 4 hours on an open testbench can raise my rooms temp by 5f. Now squish that into a tiny case that I doubt it would even fit into.
So what would cause a peak power of 700 watts during render? In watching my GPU utilization during a render it's flat at 99%. So why would there be sudden spikes? I'm assuming that once the scene is in GPU memory it's just cranking thru the calculations.
i don't have one of the new beasts. i run a GTX 970 in a 'midi' (? ) size tower. i upgraded my PSU to 750 watts( you REALLY need to check what connections are needed and any that the PSU has) i had to do quite a lot of research to find a PSU that suited my mobo and Gcard.
my CPU draws 128 watts when working hard ( AMD Athlon 2 Quad) so it is a power hungry one, lol!.
other specs are as follows, standard CPU fan/cooler, 5 X 120mm fans ( 3 exhaust, 2 through top of case, 1 through rear of case) 2 x intake, 1 at front of case, 1 fitted into side panel. 8Gb of DDR3 1600Mhz ram. 2 extra USB cards, 3 internal HDDs, and 3 external(self powered) USB HDDs.
when rendering with Iray the card fans generally run at 50%, the case fans are a mix of mobo controlled and straight connections to PSU, so some are variable in speed.
there is quite a bit of heat vented from the case, which is under my desk( seriously, i rarely needed to put any heating on last winter! )
if you are going to fit a new 1070/1080 i would suggest at least 2 extra 120/150mm case fans, and a new Bronze certified PSU of at least 800W. it always pays to have a PSU larger than actually needed so it doesn't have to ever work near its total power output.
and by the way a 1080 ti can hit a peak of 350 watts.
Egads. I just want a video card that will run Substance Painter. My Windows 8.1 has integrated GPU so SP doesn't support it/work with it. SP will work on it but it spits out black bmps. Maybe there's a smaller card that can handle working with it. I'm just not computer saavy.
I would get a 1070. The only problem is right now gpu prices are kind of high. Maybe a used 980 ti, but there more power hungry and get really hot also.
Substance Painter recommended specs : Geforce GTX 600 series or newer and 4GB of Vram
You should be good with a GPU that uses under 100W with your current setup. Here are a few that you should look into, that will also do a decent job at Iray rendering in Daz Studio. (in order of newest (fastest) to oldest (slowest and cheapest)
As alternate options if you can find one used for a cheap price (These ones retail for quite a bit higher because they are wokstation cards) you can go with a Nvidia Quadro Kxxxx, Mxxxx, or Pxxxx series card. Here is a list of ones that have enough RAM and low enough power usage in order of fastest to slowest. (do not buy one of these at the retail price!!!!!!!!)
You guys rock! Thank you SO much for suggestions from everyone. I'd love to build my own computer but I'd mess up the BIOS and buy parts that aren't compatible and I'd ask 100 more questions. Knowing of cards that might work with what I have already will be much less chaotic for me. I've replaced cards and power supplies before but that was in the beginning of time, lol. Thanks all!
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487290&cm_re=Geforce_GTX_1050ti_4GB_video_card-_-14-487-290-_-Product
This is the one that will fit into my case. There's 2 capacitors at 7" away from the back port, the memory card release switches are at 6", and this card is 5.7" I wanted the MSI but it's 6.97". Darn tight in there :(
Edit - found out that cards up to 10" will fit but you have to remove the vid card when changing out memory cards.