you think they'll ever run out of content to sell online?
Toobis
Posts: 993
in The Commons
I mean there is thousands of products like scenes, props etc I was just curious if anyone thinks everyone will just run out of idea's for products to give/sell at some point? there is tons already and am curious if this is going to last.
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No, I don't see it exhausted.
Until the entire world is recreated, there will always be more content ;)
...and the world keeps changing, so there will be new content to reflect that.
While they churn out new characters like some inasane sausage factory there will always be opportunities to make more money.
One very important thing to keep in mind about running out of content...
Look at the state of CG assets 15 years ago. With ever increasing computer speeds, sceen resolutions, and material reproduction technology... every 5 or 10 years you could realisticly re-release a new version of the same prop or location built for higher resolution rendering and new rendering techniques.
Nah. There will always be more, especially with the creation bug biting more people. Heck, even older content is getting revisited to be updated to IRay.
"Content creation is an ongoing process just like in the real world, and the ever expanding universe. " - W. Bostian
They will run out of content shortly after they run out of people willing to buy content.
And for all the thousands of products in the store, there are still those items people want that PAs and their advocates will claim are unprofitable. So there is little chance of running out of content. Besides a ton of stuff in the store is unused by many people because it is for earlier models, and people don't want the hassle of trying to convert them to latter genesis models. Having stuff you can't use is equivalent to not having that thing at all.
if this is going to last.
A better question is...IS it going to stay as you/we know it?
That's a resounding no. Nothing ever does. There's nothing on earth that can't die down, lose popularity.
I don't want to speculate over all the different ways things could go bad, but one would be a split decision that's lose 50% of your customers either way.
I think it can be proved that it is impossible.
There is a huge number of things in the real world that they could re-create in Daz Studio, but if they ever did run out then Daz would just create a new Genesis figure and they could create all the clothes and hair again for Genesis n+1.
Well, things SHOULD go out of style.
Even Sci-fi clothing styles are a forward projection of today's tastes.
That's why you can tell a 60s/70s/80s etc sci-fi flick.
How much longer are the silver-chromey-100% reflective-surfaces/metals going to be a thing?
That might get long in the tooth.
And that feeling could follow for lots of Daz vendor trends...
A new tech could really kill a lot of sales in a direction.
I know there are some categories I will probably NOT buy any more of.
I will probably never buy another castle-themed interior room or set.
I've reached overkill for some other categories. I must have a dozen labs. For the costs to be rising, I need soemthing spectacular to show up before I plunk down on another one.
A new generation (by joining or discovering Daz as opposed to age) - that might be their first lab.
And then, in reverse, how many times can you render the same set of props/people/places.....?
NEW PRODUCTS are an inspiration. It's new and shiny and that feeds the desire to render, to create....
New tools makes me want to experiment.
There are so many things I have never used. lol
When you have too much stuff- it becomes a drug you can't overdose on.
You'll get to that product eventually-
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But yeah, nothing lasts forever and this - is a middling time. I don't get that I MUST BUY SOMETHING EVERY DAY feeling that I used to.
The feeling wasn't desire, it was a need, like, "Oh I don't have something that does that or fits that role"
For some stuff, there's an item already in my runtime, I still haven't used yet.
Those new thigh-high boots are awesome. AWESOME. And I want that expansion texture set.
https://www.daz3d.com/bootleggers-2-double-trouble-for-genesis-8-female-s
My lord, I want those.
And as I put a set in the cart (to you know, just to test the pricing) I realized I still haven't used bootleggers 1 yet.
This is a bad-ssed asset, here
https://www.daz3d.com/trench-coat-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s
Did you see the texture expansion, the leggins?
I want everything....I just can't afford everything and buying everything I want isn't practical or sensible.
I actually want more money in life so I can buy more stuff from the Daz store.
Things that go out of style often come back in style and some people like rendering images of things that aren't in style any more. I've bought some retro look sci fi sets and clothes.
I think the shiny surfaces look for sci fi will always be around. When you are designing a future look for something if you want to create a bright optimistic future you make things cleaner and shinyer, if you are going for a dystopian future you make them worn and grimey.
Already had that and life went on. With the release of genesis one and the DS specific tech behind it, it took special plugins to get that figure to work in poser and it was a pain and hit or miss at best and many just walked away from DAZ and DAZ content since they were die hard poser users and didn't want/couldn't deal with DS. I would have been one of those as i was a poser only user, but had to embrace DS because of wanting to use reality and luxrender and I am glad i did..
As much as users complain and throw tantrums in the fourms. DS will probably survive anything as they have the best 3D mesh in the market and can always find other ways to market it if needed. If users would only see the bigger 3d picture thru their little narrow personal window of use, it might put some things they have issue with in a better perspective. Mesh is the basis for all 3D and if a user would only learn a small degree of modeling skills, it would help in understanding 3D much more.
As for running out of content, I would gather the company would go under first, LOL. How many here revist old saved scenes and redo them with newer figures, props and shaders? It's the same for content and there is always a new vendor creating something they want even thought it has been done before. probably why they started creating content in the first place, to make said content in their "vision". If anyone is concerned about running out of content, be more concerned about DAZ or Rendo closing. You'd then have to shop at normal 3D stores with licenses for extended use in all apps which cost you 5-7 times the prices that DAZ charges and lacks any DS or poser specific tech.
If any user wants to ensure their hobby continues as is, RECRUIT NEW USERS!!!!! the larger this community is, the better the tech and content is.
Or they could wear white leather or linen....or maybe thinner material is in and leather goes the way of spandex. lol
Or a vendor breaks the weight-map thing and has a way for clothes to sway better and suddenly THAT is the material or design everyone starts to use.
Hair has done that for me. Now, that I'm into hair with wind-morphs or great movement dynamics-
I hate hair with no bones or limited poses.
Those are now cheap, but I also know to only put those on character that won't be doing much. lol
Imagine no more morphs and you simply place the 'gravity point' somewhere in the scene and the parented objects are pulled in that direction.
Like the dress points that way...the figure's hair also points that way......
That would change every hair product thereafter.
Who would buy something- without that?
Suppose Victoria 8 was specially configured to temporarily assume the pose compatible with whatever clothing you picked, fit the clothing 100% and THEN switched back to the original pose she was in......
Suppose Victoria 8 had a foot morph dial that could pick ~15 different foot poses -to fit ANY generation of shoes....and she would do the same with her feet- just so she could fit the,,,,,
Suppose she had a universal morph translator that could adapt to any generations morph dials......lol
You'd probably buy generation 8 figures and stop worrying about all these add-ons and compatibility issues and all the other headaches.....
Suppose DAZ worked different and you generated/customized each figure, like a video game or how you adjust bodily parameters......
Choose hair length....color, amount of curl...texture....oily, dry....split ends...buzzed, geled.....etc.......
That *could* change how hair for your figure is created.....
I think there is no danger of running out of products anytime soon. Despite having thousands of things in my product library, invariably I DON'T have that one object or one pose or one shader I want, and have to hack something else into service, settle for "close enough", or just abandon the idea entirely and do something else. Of course the basic, easy and obvious ideas may be taken, but there are so many variations on those same items, improvements that could be made, and a nearly infinite number of things that haven't even been created at all yet, I don't see any end in sight my lifetime.
I didn't notice the BIGGEST reason content creation will never end:
New technology.
If you took the OBJ and textures from a recent product, say one of DZFire's vehicles, and took it into Poser 4 on a 2001 era computer, it would not only sputter and die, it couldn't use most of the texture maps. As the computers get more powerful, we can have more and more polygons and larger texture maps in a scene, and as rendering engines change we have different approaches on how to represent realistic surfaces.
Heck, even products from six years ago tend to look a bit dated compared to ones fromthe past year or so. There's a reason I went back and revisited a few older creations, myself.
Nope. Some older content is NLA. For instance, Stonemason's old Gothic Construction Kit. I still use it, albeit by reworking the textures with Pimp My Prop. As long as older items that the creator deems are obsolete are pulled, they will always be replaced. I mean, we ain't run out of buildings in cities yet, and cities are older than our 10,000 year old written history. That's just replacement, too. That doesn't count new stuff.
So long as there is creative imagination and talented folks, we will never run out of things to buy.
Well seeing how they make us buy the same stuff all over again every two years, I'd say not. :)
My take on the situation is that the Daz crew is currently coasting a bit, and while we are seeing incremental improvements, there's a lot of stuff that they are 'handing off' to other applications. And they are very reliant on third party 3d content designers for a lot of things, as opposed to doing a lot of stuff 'in house'. While this isn't necessarily bad, those 3rd party designers are of course free to take their skills elsewhere when/if the whim strikes them.
There are a few things you can't do in Daz easily, such as significantly modifying clothing, designing new clothing, etc. Well maybe you can, but it's not a straightforward process, and I see a lot of people using Blender or other programs to do this, then porting it back in. This raises the barrier significantly for those looking for an easy way to do this stuff.
Meanwhile, the other programs that Daz has in the wings (Carrara, Hexagon, Bryce) are all being left behind. Sure, people still use them, but they haven't seen significant updates in a while. Then there are the 3rd party apps, such as Reality...
The one new product from Daz that I'd probably consider buying very seriously would be a Blender/Poser/3D Studio type product where I could easily design new 3D models, Blender style but more user friendly. Blender annoys me every time I try to do anything in it, plus it has a lot of keyboard conventions that aren't laptop friendly (my laptop doesn't have a 10 key, and while yes there is the 'function key' emulation of a 10 key, or a USB ten key, yeah both aren't ideal solutions). Not to mention the learning curve involved...
It'd also be nice if Daz had their own standalone render engine, so that I could separate my renders from the project I'm working on, as opposed to using Reality, etc. which is a 3rd party. BTW, I never was able to activate my copy of Reality, and Daz washed their hands of the matter. Sure, I'm an isolated case, and I've been holding off on trying to activate my copy again until my new rendering system is online (picking my battles, also waiting on Threadripper), but I am NOT AT ALL HAPPY with Preta3D at the moment (asking me to diable my firewall, what the heck?!? I'm not doing that for a program that they should simply be able to send me an activation code for, but haven't. It's a bit of a Mexican standoff, but I digress). Daz customer service has been fairly good for in house products, hence why I'd love a Daz owned solution as opposed to a 3rd party solution.
Back to my point, if Daz had well supported in house programs that could bridge easily with Daz to allow people to easily design stuff and port it back to Daz, well I think they'd have a lot more loyal customers. But by 'ceding' this territory to other applications, well it opens the door for those applications to design their own library of figures, clothing items, hair, etc. sorta kinda emulating what Daz Studio does, but with a seamless integration with their core product.
I've messed with Hexagon and Bryce a bit, (I've yet to try to figure out Carrara) and while they aren't bad programs, things I would consider 'simple' are not as straightforward in those programs as say Blender. (Note: my Hexagon install crashes often, and I've yet to successfully bridge something back into Daz after bridging to Hexagon). And I've heard a few people grumbling how Genesis 3, and now 8, aren't really Poser firendly, and maybe not even Carrara friendly (not sure on that one). My point is that those programs are sorta kinda orphaned at this point, and Daz is missing an opportunity by not making those programs more robust and relevant.
When one of the other options as far as 3D character design manages to break into Daz's corner of the market, then Daz will become less relevant. Sure, Genesis as a 3d mesh design thingie is unique, and doesn't translate well into other programs as far as morphs, etc. but if a competitor comes up with a more market friendly/portable group of characters, and can capitalize on that market with a good marketing plan, then Daz may be in trouble. Especially if they can get a perfect storm rolling that makes their suite of programs very attractive to 3d content designers of varying skill levels.
No subscription model though please. The Adobe horror stories...
Especially if one of those competitors can come up with a more agnostic in house GPU rendering system for their suite of programs. Iray is all fine and good, but AMD has some very attractive cards that will be hitting the market in the next few weeks (Read: Radeon Frontier with the 2 Terabytes of dedicated fast storage).
And if the competitor's suite of programs allows someone to take baby steps as they learn more and more about 3d character design, well they can get even more people onboard, as those people can start designing unique little items as they increase their skill, gradually working up to outfits, hairstyles, etc. Daz's learning curve is rather abrupt on this, and often people go outside of the Daz ecosystem to do some of this stuff...
Yes, you can do some of this stuff within Daz, and in fact I do a few simple things, but having a bunch of broken links to helpdesk topics, etc. just reeks of laziness, and makes it harder for people to figure out how to do new things. Yes, people on this forum are rather helpful, but well written, easy to follow documentation is what customers expect.
Something that the competition can do fairly easily is make their programs more affordable to attract a bigger customer base, and maybe robust entry versions for free (not just free trial). The one thing that Daz Studio Pro has going for it is that it is free, which is more like a test drive that gets people interested in the program. Once they get the hang of it, they are more willing to invest in other things in the Daz store. There is absolutely nothing stopping a well positioned competitor from emulating this model in some fashion...
The 3D party content designers can often make other versions of their stuff (.obj, 3DS, .blend, etc.), and in fact some sell Daz products elsewhere to keep their options open. This is another leg that a shrewd competitor can use to their advantage.
Until the competition puts together a 'perfect storm', yeah Daz customers are probably not going anywhere, but 'coasting' is leaving a huge opening for a competitor to capitalize on. More and more people are becoming interested in 3d content production, and it is very much a growth market. Not a good time to be coasting...
Daz is making money hand over fist, so they have no excuses as far as investing more money into the Daz ecosystem, not just in the latest generation of characters. Somebody needs to kick the Daz software guys in the keester and get them working on better 'satellite' programs to fit inside the Daz ecosystem, as opposed to relying on 3rd party software.
My two cents on this subject.
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I can't imagine EVER running out of new things. If you look at the marketplaces, you will notice all kinds of items that are new and that have never existed before.
Just think about it, there is a whole world out there, not much of it is part of the Daz/Poserverse.
YET, at least.