Reasons not to rush into Genesis 8
Cybersox
Posts: 9,330
If, like me, you're trying to think of reasons to not drop a hundred + bucks on V8, here are the reason's I've come up with for myself, so far...
1 - The launch promo is aimed at newbs rather than exisiting customers. Buy V8, get V7, V6 and V5 pro bundles free? Too bad I bought those when THEY came out. Maybe I should wait for V9 so I can get the V8 Pro Bundle free. Best to wait and see what they offer tommorrow, in any case..
EDIT - I just got the Orange Bar offer adding an additional 30% off the initial price for those who've already purchased the previous sets.
2 - Once again, no bundle for the basic Genesis 8 morphs which are required to use any of the new characters, so to actually buy in on V8 with full functionality and all her working bits is over a hundred dollars even if you're in PC+. Wait two months and that price'll drop to around $70 for the whole enchillada. Come on DAZ, how about a little kindness towards the people who've already been supporting you?
EDIT - As part of the above offer, there's now an ADDITIONAL 30% off on G8 add ons. Guess what the price of the Pro Bundle + moprh packs is now? $72.34 after tax. Big Brother is watching!
3 - V8 has dead eyes. Seriously, there's something funny about her eyes in all the promos. Shje kinda creeps me out.
4 - The rest of the DAZ world needs upgrading first. So, V8 has better bending? Too bad most of the clothing that she can wear and all of the hair available for her doesn't. Her muscles may now flex automatically, but can that be switched off for a natural unconcious or sleeping pose, or, as the prmos seem to indicate, does she always look tense and on edge? Do her soft parts actually move like they're affected by gravity? And can she be touched by two different objects and have her skin be indented by both?
5. Have to upgrade to the new DS. When you move to a new DS, things that were working fine stop working, or don't work quite the way they did before.
6. Draagonstorm and Dimension 3D have both passed away, so no new GenX2 extensions for Genesis 8, and a new Pose Builder will probably be delayed as ZevO works with new scripters.
EDIT- Zev0 has now confirmed that there is a new pose builder on the way for G8, which will convert G3 poses to g8 poses AND vice Versa.
7. - Nothing exciting in the pro bundle.. Really, if the Pro Bundle didn't HAVE to be bought to get the gens, would I buy most of this stuff? The skin/character sets eventually. The two real world outfits as well. The hair... when it goes on super sale, as I've got other items that look almost identical already. The rest of it... no, not really. I'll wait for Irinman13 to start cranking out the pose sets, and the other outfits don't grab my eye at all. Although it's not the worst bundle DAZ has ever produced, it's certainly the most lackluster launch bundle I've yet seen.
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Comments
I especially agree to #5.
And sorry no, but what you state in #1 didn't apply to me.
so sad but yes, it'll have consequences for used daz customers/users. Our assets grow bigger each year, and having some tools to update/reuse them is a MUST HAVE. Peace to those fantastic developers but sad also for us , the users. Daz must think quickly about it for a replacement.
You can add point 8 to your list:
8. No improvment, absolutelly nothing new in the HAIRS. They seem like zillons generations behind nowadays, especially when you think about nvidia wind/movment simulations of hairs PER single hair in REAL TIME. Daz should upgrade to nvidia physics
and even you can add point 9
9. Cloth simulation.
Daz seems, oups, daz IS driven by the immediate return on investment. So, they are in the urge of making a new gen available wich is the thing that make money in their economical business plan. Unfortunately, that make the daz studio development far behind. Now we have a 2 decimal increment in release 4.9.4. at this speed, we'll see a real new studio 5 in about 2 centuries...
I'm thinking about a point 10 :
10. gen 3 will drop in price in big sales. like early Gen 3 did this past winter. (same for gen 2 and gen 1 ). So, if you are no in the urge of specific improvments of gen 8, invest and complete your previous gen. They'll be compatible with gen 8 instantly.
The Extra discound is good until the 22nd, so there is no reason to rush into it today unless you want to be first kid on the block. And of course if you wait until October there will almost certanly be extra discounts offered during the PC sale.
That said, I'm going to give it serious consideration. I'm going to see what others say after getting her. A main selling point to me is the ability to change expressions with the puppeteer, that's pretty huge for what I do which is mostly comic work. That would be offset by how much trouble it will be to use my existing pose library, clothes, hair, skins, etc.
I really do want to be talked out of this, but the expressions are (in theory because I can't get PowerPose to work on them in actuality) really are tempting. But I can't afford it. And I have lots of stuff. Yes. Talk me out of this. Better to save my money until November.
Dropping the total price for the Pro Bundle down to $70 is a big motivator, as that's 65% off, makes the Pro bundle just $2 more than the Starter Bundle, and is it's unlikely to be offered for much cheaper until October. My original inclination was to wait to see how long it will take for a G8 version of NewGen to hit over at 'Rotica, as I found the V6 and V7 versions to be superior to the DAZ 's anatomical elements, and that would have let me buy the starter bundle rather than the Pro set. Now that they're the same price though...
5 still remains the big hold up for me. I really dislike the rush to move into the new DS build so quickly, so I may just load the G8 stuff onto my second computer until I'm more sure of what's going to be compromised.
Your 8 and 9 are basically elaborations of my 4, though they're still good points. When every competing program out there EXCEPT DAZ has dynamic cloth and Hair options, and Realusion and VWD are doing it WITH Genesis figures, the lack of dynamics in DZ is just sloth on the part of DAZ. Given that Optitex just blew out all their old DAZ stuff for pennies on the dollar, I'm hopeful that that deal is finally coming to an end.
You 10 is a good point. The thing is, I'm already so invested in G3 that I don't really need to add anything else... I have over a hundred G3 characters, and that's BEFORE I count all the GenX ports, skin transfers via Caymen and I just bought Skin Builder 3. Fortunately, since it appears that G8 uses G3 skins, and the auto fit clones are already included with G8 to fit almost everything, it means that I really shouldn't need to buy anything for G8 in the near future except to add morphs.
And that brings me to a new one that I'll add
11 - I haven't gotten good enough to max out the capabilities of G3 yet. I see some amazing renders being done, but though I've been improving, some of the demos that Dimension-Z has posted on Deviant Art are just staggering. If I'm not getting that out of G3F, how much additional benefit am I really going to get out of G8?
I think you mean Powerpose, as you've always been able to control expressions with Puppeteer... just set in a few extremes and start mousing. Zev0 added the ability to control the breasts with it as well. I am excited to see PoerPose finally get an update, though. There was a period where it looked like it ws in danger of getting abandoned and it was only the dedicated users like SnowSultun, who created workable templates for Gen 1, 2 and 3, that made it really usable.
If you've got the money and an orange banner, it seems like the perfect time to take the plunge, 'cause it may be six months before we see these prices again. However, I still have scores of GenX conversions to do, and I'm concerned that upgrading to 4.9.4 is going to break GenX. And, since V8 is reportedly requiring a D|S upgrade, I won't be able to use her until I finish my gruntwork.
DON'T DO IT!!! LOL
:P
Laurie
The one glaring thing I've noticed about the new version so far is that spectral rendering turned ON causes all kinds of weird colorful noise and fireflies that, rather than resolve with more samples, seems to get worse. I was gonna try again and then report it as a bug later.
Laurie
I'm not rushing anywhere (can't afford to, even at the reduced prices)
Besides mid June release = 90 days of "new" up in mid September... and then comes October and the PC anniversary sale, wherein we're not only likely to see these prices again, but possibly better. (and there will probably be 3-4 new female Pro Bundles which may serve my purposes better (and have better timing) between now and then.)
I've still got plenty of Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 content on my wish list to keep me spending until I'm ready.
wating first to see software improvements, specially in the animation section of dazstudio 5 (free or buyable pro version)
my personal and only reason to hold of on new figures.
but i like the idea of powerpose extension, but strange this couldn't be done for Genesis3!
Until a child character (kids 8 or something like that) is released or Zev0 (or someone else) does Growing Up Morphs for Genesis 8, I wont put any money on Genesis 8. Until then I'll stick with Genesis 3.
This.
I believe Zev has already said a Growing Up for G8 is in the works, as well as an update for Skin Builder... so many things to keep track of. But yeah, I use a lot of teen to early 20s characters as well, so having the youth morphs is a huge thing, and I didn't really commit to the last two generations until the teens started to show up. Then again, since NGS Annagenessis 2 came out, I've been interchangeably using Genesis, Genesis 2 and the G3s all side by side and not only is it really hard to tell them apart, I'm actually finding that original Genesis often has the best range of expressions.
This. Hell I'd settle for accurate BVH import. It's crazy that I can import mocap from CMU's motion capture database to Genesis 2 but NOT Genesis 3. I mean, what were they thinking?
thinking $$$ re-buy over and over again.
Animators ,in general tend no to be content hoarders
as we are storytellers through motion/action.
not via fancy hair do'sand or sexy outfits and make up.
the Daz Loss leader business model is based on
selling fancy hair do's and or sexy outfits and make up
.
The inability of G3 and G8 to import thier OWN BVH files
exported from a G3 and G8 rig generated in iclone ,Motionbuilder or
Daz studio itself ,tells you where the priorites are.
No need to have a genesis 8 figure
Agree with point 1, I already have purchased V4, V5 and V6 pro bundles (only have V7 base figure) and I could get only an extra 20% off to V8. I would have expected at least a 50% discount off for regular buyers of the previous Victorias.
Sigh... I'd really planned on passing V8 up for this round, as I'm quite happy with G3F and I've yet to see any V8 renders that really knocked my socks off, but in the end DAZ kept adding discounts until I couldn't resist. Besides the extra 30% off the Pro Bundle for owning all the previous pro bundles, the real decider for me was the great stacking discounts on the other products in my cart. The additional 30% off let me pick up the three Genesis 8 morph sets for $6.50 each, the new Bone Doctor for about $16, a couple of G3M outfits like the construction worker for about $3 each, and a massive stack of 16 RawArts figures for an average of less than $2 each. Toss in a free G2 maid outfit, the weekly ffreebies and the new Deco room, and it worked out to 39 items for just under $130 including tax. gah. More than I wanted to spend, but it'll be a while before the Gen 8s hit that level of discount again, so even though I haven't upgraded to the new DS yet, I figured what the hey...
Hope you're stocked up on those ramen noodles.... ;)
Laurie
I am using the opportunity to see what I can customise on the Genesis 8 female starter essentials for free though.
Have brought over a lot of morphs with the transfer utility and am slowly converting basic animations
finally found a twofold way to do it using iClone 3Dxchange and Draggonstorms G2F to G3F script
one needs to in the retargetting step tweak the tPose to an opposite A pose arms 45.5° in the air legs 6° inwards then export contorted BVH on that figure for G2F to run the conversion on.
You may want to double check your final price in addition to the line item price, sometimes part of the discount is applied there. Otherwise refreshing the cart may help.
.
Yes, I can't get it down at $0.00...
Then unfortunately I'm not sure, when I put the bundle in the cart, it shows $94.47 in the place you are showing in your screenshot, and then the correct discounted price under my order total.
We have all seen, from time to time, the items in our cart have the wrong discount until we refresh the cart. If you refresh a couple of times and keep getting the same issue, then something else may be going. Drop by the "There's always another sale" thread and post the problem there. We were "officially" told DAZ keeps an eye on that thread, and problems get reported, (and fixed,) pretty fast.
Something else I discovered some months ago. Sometimes the cart total and the prices shown for the items in the cart are different. The total will be correct, but if you hit the checkout button, the price in Checkout will be the higher total of the item prices, not the lower cart total displayed on the cart page. If you refresh the cart page until the item prices and cart total are both correct, that doesn't happen. (At least, this was true when I stumbled on it.) I suspect the shopping cart software is setting a cookie with the item prices shown in the cart, and using that cookie to generate the checkout total. But regardless of how it works, make sure the items have the correct discounts applied before hitting the green checkout button!
I finally got off the fence just now and decided not to buy V8 (again!), so took the Pro bundle out of my cart. Again. After reading your comments, I added it back so that I could test for you. It's still showing the same sale price as it's always done here.