Issue with DAZ Originals
McGrandpa
Posts: 464
I find quite a number of DAZ Original items that do not have Poser Companion Files. They are DS only. I have been told for YEARS now that DAZ is not abandoning Poser, that "ALL DAZ ORIGINAL ITEMS" WILL support Poser. So I am asking DAZ to honor this, and for items in the store that have DAZ ORIGINALS in the Artist field that PCF's be created and listed for those items.
Try any BODYSUIT search for Genesis 2. Several do have DAZ Originals in the Artist field, along with another name. I believe the important part is "DAZ Originals".
Thank you.
Michael
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Comments
Are you sure that all DOs need PCFs? Some may work anyway I imagine.
It isn't up to Daz to say what program to make your products for. It is a discussion made by the PA. Numbers have shown that there was absolutely no sale drops from not supporting Poser. Why would a PA do double the work and not get the benefits from it. Sales number for Poser products (for us at least) are at a severe now so most are dropping it. But, in no way is it Daz's fault there is a lack of Poser support.
The OP was talking about Daz Originals so I'm not sure if your post is totally relevant, surely Daz can make the accompanying files for things they buy out.
The requirements for a DAZ Original is now 3delight and Iray, or Poser and DS in terms of buyouts. Most that sell for the daz originals are opting for the materials.. it's been this way for that last few years, so Frank's comment is very relevant, particularly in terms of low poser sales to justify the support.
Scorpio is correct. While this IS the Commons the issue is with DAZ and words DAZ people have said to me over several years. My concern is that there are a number of items I've been looking at that have "DAZ Original" as ONE of the artists. That means DAZ owns the item outright and it's really a courtesy to give the name of the creating artist. I'd have bought several of the items already, had they been usable in Poser.
So the other posts are not, so far, relevant to the actual issue. I knew that even asking about the issue would border on "inflammatory". It isn't my intent at all to start any form of debate. I just want DAZ to keep their word, and make the DAZ Originals be Poser Compatible. That's it.
No Scorpio is incorrect. Again, the requirements for a product to be sold to DAZ3D as a DAZ Original is that is either has to have Iray and 3Delight shaders. Whether it is poser compatible is no longer a requirement because Genesis 3 is not Poser compatible. Though DAZ3D has said they support having Poser items in the store, they never said the DAZ Original products have to be poser compatible... as a virtue of the technology behind Genesis 3 that can't be possible, and the PAs supply the majority of DAZ Originals, the differences between the software makes a lot of that no longer possible. In short, DAZ3d can only provide what the PAs sell and the issues in making items for poser- and DAZ Studio- compatible became too much of a headache to do, hence the change to providing items to both DAZ Studio render engines. Also sales DO play a big part whether Poser items are made as this has been covered in many threads before this. It is what it is.
EDIT: So basically nothing is stopping a PA or a vendor from coming on board to make an Poser item to sell to DAZ3D, but what you're suggesting is forcing PAs to make poser items, and that's not going to happen.
from what I've read from some creators is some can't as they don't have use poser or due to cost time they don't think it is worth itmight be different if they were commissioned to do it before hand if they were capable of doing it but there are still some poser creators offering new stuff remember recently someone had in a sale mostly their content which was poser only and brand new too bunch of buildings, streets, scenes can't remember if they were part daz originals or just under the pa then there's all this other content/creators daz have brought over like vanishing point's stuff don't know how much is brand new content but there's some really nice poser and other stuff would love see converted
Scorpio *IS* correct. Actually the issue doesn't have anything to do with you "PA's" directly. This is to do with DAZ *THE COMPANY* and their word to ME. But, I suppose by posting the issue in here I must realize that it will attract attention.
Perhaps it's best I close this and just call them.
He's not. Again, who is supplying DAZ3D with the content for the DAZ O's? The PAs. If the PAs don't make the content, DAZ can not sell it for a DAZ O. That's the part you're missing. If a PA choses to make an item with 3dlight and Iray shaders for a product and not poser compatible, it still falls within the requirement for selling to DAZ3D. I'm sure you could call, but I doubt you're going to get any different answer. That said, if you need a particular item, you could do what DAZ users have done for years, export and import into their program and work with the materials.
Also there's nothing preventing PA or another Vendor to sell poser items to DAZ. It's down to the PA whether they want to do that AND sell it to DAZ3D. Complaining won't make them do it, unless it's feasible to do so. DAZ3D doesn't tell PAs what to make, even for DAZ Originals; we present product to them for brokering or for sale. Perhaps it would be better just to spread the word to other vendors to sell their poser items to DAZ3D.
While i see your point, you seem to missing the OPs. he is under the impression that DAZ promised to make DAZ originals compatible with poser, so regardless of who creates it or what hurdles are involved, he feels it is up to DAZ to make this happen.
So the clarification here should be, did DAZ actually make this promise or not and if so, do they intend to keep it, not what is invloved or who created the product
Thing is they **never** said that. Also with Genesis 3 unable to natively work (as with the other genesis products and things with the DSON spec) in Poser, how exactly can they do what he asks? How can products that use DS features such as instancing be made compatible to work in Poser?
They can't and this is really a matter that needs to be taken up with Smith Micro, as this is the reason why the requirements for selling products to DAZ as DAZ Originals were changed.
I think the issue is that some people may have mistaken "we support poser in our store" with thinking that means "we will go out of our way to make poser items". Those aren't the same things, especially from a brokerage where most of the items are created by outside parties for sale or purchase. And really to verify this, you simply need to ask the requirements for a DAZ O buyout and they will tell you either it has to have a DAZ Studio or Poser version OR A DAZ Product with Iray and 3Delight shaders... then it's up to the vendor to decide what make and offer to sell to DAZ3D.
I didn't come in here to argue with anyone. And Male-M3dia is determined to take something out of one realm and put it in another. Is Richard Haseltine still alive? Is he still with DAZ?
Can You please tell us, and show a screen shot of where Daz promised that all DOs would support poser? I am not aware of such a promise ever being made.
And remember I use Poser to prepare things to import into my Fave program.I do not actually uise DS, so I should be aware of what is what.
Remember that it is SM and Poser that have moved away from Daz and DS, not the other way round. Daz have said several times in the past that SM were offered the chance to use the DS specifications to stay compatible and decided to go their own way as far as weight mapping was concerned.
She.
I do remember talk of retaining Poser compatability, wheather an actual promise was made though - I can't be positive.
I used a generic pronoun so no correction was necessary.
Again you were mistaken. The conversation was around the time there was questions of whether Poser products were welcome in the store due to genesis. DAZ stated that they welcome poser products, but it was up to the PAs to produce them... and the only way they would produce them was through customer support via sales. This conversation also added in going to SM and having them make the changes in the program so that Poser users could natively use genesis and the DSON spec, including a list of things that poser needed to add so that DS content could be used. There were no promises made pertaining to **making** poser products, which is different from supporting having poser content in the store. Again, DAZ3D can't promise content when they are mostly reliant on PAs to supply content to the store, whether through brokering or selling directly to the company. Then as it is now, really this conversation needs to go to Smith Micro... they are ultimately responsible for your content needs.. not DAZ3D.
Hey male-m3dia, I don't see anything that indicates you were the person(s) I conversed with. So stop writing like you DID coverse with ME. OH I know who YOU are.
Chohole - no I cannot, the discussions dissappeared along with the old forums and PM's a couple site software upgrades back. Just like the records of my more than 4000 posts on the original forums.
I thank you for your kind manners and your interest. If you ever visit Usenet, see me in alt.binaries.3d.poser. There are fewer than a dozen of us left there, for all the various "home user" 3D software.
Seriously, the word was that if it is a DAZ Original, it will support Poser. I was promised that DAZ would not abandon Poser. Now, I don't think any Poser user would expect that to cover Genesis3. And as far as PA's putting their two cents in on this topic, well they are not DAZ and that's just wrong of a particular PA to do. DAZ owns the products and can produce PCF's if they damn well want to. Who ever said that would be expected of the PA? Wasn't me.
The conversation was in PM's so even if I had it stored on my own system I would not post it nor reveal with whom I conversed. That is Bad Form. Thank you for your understanding. I expect this conversation to be closed now. And I thank you all for your input, positive and negative.
And to DAZ: Thank you for all your support through the last 13 years. It IS BECAUSE OF DAZ's WORK that I/WE Poser Users have the ability to use generations 1 through 6 of their Human Figures, and now even more than that via use of the DSON importer for Poser. AND, thanks to the work of willdial and lululee over at Renderosity I have Genesis 3 functional in PP11 and PP 2014. So, Forbidden Whispers LIVIA HD G3F is fully usable.
Chohole, I want to thank you personally for all the work you pour into our (yes it is OUR) Community. You have been a huge help, and I appreciate you!
Art Collaborations - thank you for all the great props sets. And they ARE great. I wouldn't have bought and use so many of them if they weren't. I only have 41, soooo...
Folks, I have a question. The answer may solve the issue.
What is the difference between "Artist:Daz Originals " and "Artist:Daz Originals (any artist name)" ? Is there any, DAZ?
If the item is only credited to "Daz Originals" then normally it's been created in-house, such as original figures like victoria/ophelia/centaur etc. If the item is credited as "Daz Originals" and another artist, it's either been commissioned or acquired by daz from the original author (the artist that's credited next to Daz Originals"). There are likely exceptions to this, but this is the case for the most part. Hopefully that clears things up, unless i misread the question.
I do recall something and also recall it was the previous management
after a new CEO takes over all previous promises are off the table
the Old CEO now at the helm of Hivewire does indeed support Poser.
Not sure what the issue is when you post in a public forum, especially when you create posts that contained misinformation. You were going to be corrected. You can always create a private blog if that's an issue.
And again, let's use the correct word. "Support" does not mean "Make". Also again, no promises at making poser products, because you would be speaking for PAs, which can choose not to make products.. which is why the rules were loosened anyway. At hivewire, they can make products for both softwares because Dawn just uses the minimum sets of common features in both software, so basically it's **just** a weightmapped figure. However, customers require more than just weightmapping, which is why other figures are more popular.
Also note, the previous management was around when genesis was released WITHOUT poser support because they were working with SM to incorporate the genesis technology directly in Poser, so the assumption was the support would already be in poser. When that support was pulled, you simply can't promise to make the same things based on different technology. This is really another one of those subjects where this conversation needs to be taken to Smith Micro, not DAZ3D. If you choose to use Poser, that's fine, but SM is ultimately responsible for your content needs.
carrara companion files would be nice too.
i see something in ds to save poser companion files.
does blended weights work in poser?
blended weights works nice in carrara, wondering if it would also help in poser.
my old pp12 doesnt work with the dson script, cant test anything.
You have to convert joint scale to Tri-ax for Poser before exporting the GF3 to a CR2. There is no PCF for that one. For loading textures and poses, yes they'd be needed. Maybe for clothing too. It is such a process as to make one lose interest. I will have to root around again and see where the Save PCF's is. I jumped from the old Poser Pro (7.0.4) to Poser Pro 2014 and then Poser Pro 11 right after that. Frankly, I like PP 2014 better. I don't know "blended weights". What's that? :)
Male-M3dia - no. *WE* the users of whatever software we choose are ultimately responsible for content FOR said software. If we aren't making it, then we spend money buying it.
No matter what complexity you put into this issue, it still sits to the one thing.
I've spent the time to go through the stores products with a search for DAZ Originals, and all of the type come up. More than half of those are for both Poser and DS. About a quarter of the whole are DS only because of Genesis 3 and/or IRAY. Poser uses neither, of course. A few that could be for Poser also, such as Genesis 2 stuff and all sorts of architecture, aren't. I know from previous discussions that a number of artists have not just quit supporting Poser, but uninstalled it as well. That's fine. To each their own, right? I will still scrounge around looking for things I want that other people create. In a way, it is kind of like being an art collector. Only this is art that I USE. Back in the day I thought that was pretty cool. That was when I stumbled into DAZ 3D. downloaded their beta DS, some free content, figured out how to use it. The only 3D software I'd had any experience with was low end 3D mesh modelers with external mesh viewers. MilkShape3D anyone?
I got nothing against ANY software. Nor any hardware. I do have a thing against being treated like dirt. OK?
I sense a lot of animosity from you. Why is that? I've done nothing wrong, I've minded my manners. I've attacked no one. I won't be summarily dismissed because maybe some other users disagree with me.
OK. Sort of. I know that the persons I spoke with were careful to say they would not force any artist to do a thing they didn't want to. The setup here is liberal enough, what the artist does and the way its done can affect what percentage of the sales they get. I do get (with a raised eyebrow) that the highest level is with all the 'brokering' companies is paid by doing it 100% their way for THEM. Well, until you make a big name for yourself and can make other arrangements with them. 40% is pretty normal I think. And if the "PA" doesn't like that, they're sure welcome to take it out on their own.
Meantime, I think what you say is mostly accurate. As you say, exceptions to the rule. ;)
There was no inaccurate information.
Hence, my question in the first place.
I have PoserPro12 and DSON works but I use Dimension 3D's DSON loader to import the stuff.
Saves making companion files.
You still need DSON installed but it makes it much easier.
Genesis 3 converted to triax and exported as a cr2 from DAZ studio works.
Which was incorrect, Chohole said the same issue and asked you for a link as she didn't recall that post ever happening? Have you found it?