Facegen - could someone explain how it works

rnollman · February 2017

I downloaded the demo product from the FaceGen website and created a face. I have this image of a celebrity face with a purple FG on the forehead. The face looks great. Now what? Please explain step by step. It does not have to be detailed, I just want to know how this image becomes is applied to a G2 or G3 figure.

riftwitch · February 2017

I'm not at my computer right now, and I can't remember the names of some of the tabs, but there's a tutorial here: https://facegen.com/artist_tutorial.htm

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

samurle · February 2017

If you're working with Daz Studio, then you should be looking at FaceGen Artist. The other FaceGen programs are not for Daz Studio.

outrider42 · February 2017

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Oso3D · February 2017

Also, if you have GenX2 with Genesis 3, you can probably move the FG morphs over to G3 (which is one reason I bought Home and not Pro, along with the fact I don't really do anything in Genesis 3)

Oso3D · February 2017

Here's a quick experiment with Facegen. Face is from Facegen, skin is Cayman.

http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Karban-665007023

Kev914 · February 2017

What size should the picture be that you use? So many pixels by so many pixels?

And should the picture be of just the head?

samurle · February 2017

KevinH said:

What size should the picture be that you use? So many pixels by so many pixels?

And should the picture be of just the head?

I would say as large as possible, but I think the facegen program internally scales everything down to 1024 x 1024. So, it should be at least 1024 x 1024.

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

samurle said:

KevinH said:

What size should the picture be that you use? So many pixels by so many pixels?

And should the picture be of just the head?

I would say as large as possible, but I think the facegen program internally scales everything down to 1024 x 1024. So, it should be at least 1024 x 1024.

FG exports textures at 4096 x 4096. So, a nice big closeup is best. However, I have made very successful characters at 1024....np.

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

rnollman said:

I downloaded the demo product from the FaceGen website and created a face. I have this image of a celebrity face with a purple FG on the forehead. The face looks great. Now what? Please explain step by step. It does not have to be detailed, I just want to know how this image becomes is applied to a G2 or G3 figure.

In my demo, the export feature was disabled. But, I already own both the Home and Pro versions.

However, some people have a demo that has export enabled. If yours is enabled, there will be a tab labeled "File" that will have the options to save the Face as an FG file and an Export tab that lets you choose which Genesis character you want to export to. Select G2 (F or M) and give your face a name. Hit the export button and in about 15 seconds FG will let you know that the face and textures have been exported. If Daz is running, you'll need to restart it so the new morph will be installed. Look under either "Actor / Head / Real World" or "Actor /Head / Universal" for your new morph. The slider should already be created. Apply the slider to get your face shape on G2. Then, go to the surfaces tab in Daz and select your model and "surfaces." Click on the diffuse texture for each category and browse to the folder where FG exported your new textures. Select the appropriate textures and apply...Voila'...new character. It'll only take one or two for you to get the hang of it. It's really pretty darn easy.

samurle · February 2017

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

FG exports textures at 4096 x 4096. So, a nice big closeup is best. However, I have made very successful characters at 1024....np.

Not exactly. Facegen uses a skin merchant resource kit for the head, torso, legs, and arms. It doesn't create these textures, because they're already created. What it does it adjust the skin tone so it matches the face texture. The face itself is store internally as a 1024 x 1024 jpg. This face is copied and blended onto the skin resource to fit.

I've downloaded the demo several months ago (not a new user here), so I've had a lot to time to understand how it works.

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

samurle said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

FG exports textures at 4096 x 4096. So, a nice big closeup is best. However, I have made very successful characters at 1024....np.

Not exactly. Facegen uses a skin merchant resource kit for the head, torso, legs, and arms. It doesn't create these textures, because they're already created. What it does it adjust the skin tone so it matches the face texture. The face itself is store internally as a 1024 x 1024 jpg. This face is copied and blended onto the skin resource to fit.

I've downloaded the demo several months ago (not a new user here), so I've had a lot to time to understand how it works.

I'm not talking about the demo.

I've.been using the Pro version for months now. Before that, I used the Home version for a couple of months until I saved up to upgrade. :)

I do realize that the textures are stored in the system and then color matched. Perhaps, "create" isn't the right word. "Generate" would have been better. But, nevertheless, I think it's reasonable to think of it that way in that FG exports a ready to use and color matched body set of textures to go with your new face. While it's true that each texture isn't new and unique, it is still a pretty darn nice feature.

The face texture I just exported is at 4096. The internal file is a png, not a jpeg, and is also at 4096. The difference might be the demo vs the pro version or even the Pro vs Home version. I don't have the Home version on this system anymore. So, I can't double check that as easily.

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

samurle · February 2017

Still don't believe me, huh? I guess I have to throw down some proof.

The 4096x4096 PNG files are the skin resource files. The 1024x1024 JPG I mentioned, is the actual face.
This is what it looks like:

Image removed

samurle · February 2017

samurle said:

Still don't believe me, huh? I guess I have to throw down some proof.

The 4096x4096 PNG files are the skin resource files. The 1024x1024 JPG I mentioned, is the actual face.
This is what it looks like:

Image removed

Why was my post removed?

Richard Haseltine · February 2017

samurle said:

samurle said:

Still don't believe me, huh? I guess I have to throw down some proof.

The 4096x4096 PNG files are the skin resource files. The 1024x1024 JPG I mentioned, is the actual face.
This is what it looks like:

Image removed

Why was my post removed?

Is that not the map from FaceGen? if it's your own map you are welcome to repost, butt hat was not how I read the post.

samurle · February 2017

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

outrider42 · February 2017

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

That's weird. I remember trying Facegen a loooong time ago, and there was no export feature at all. Possibly a couple years ago. And I remember that "Artist" was not around yet, either. Then sometime later, around June, I looked up FG again. This time I saw it had Artist designed just for Daz, and tried the Artist demo. It was specifically because of the demo's export feature that lead me to buying it, since it let me see my heads right in Daz. I still have those files and morphs in Daz, with their giant "FG" branding.

Perhaps you downloaded the regular FG demo instead of the Artist demo? They are almost identical, and it would be an easy mistake to make.

nonesuch00 · February 2017

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Anyway as to the earlier argument you two need only go look at your installed version of FaceGen to settle:

Genesis1: tex_face.png - 512x512 - 512x512, was that the standard then of the DAZ free textures for the Genesis Male and Genesis Female?

Genesis2: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Genesis3: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Then there is the matter of these 24 Male & 29 Female normalized textures used by FaceGen when you are still in the process of creating your face morph and choose a texture, if any, that will get saved with the .fg file and I'm don't know the algorithm, but probably scaled up (or down) and 'or'ed with the DAZ texture(s) above. In this case you'd only want only a minimal set of characteristic face texture features to use and I guess that's why they are normalized. You wouldn't want to for examle use exactly the face texture features that George Clooney has, but instead a generic unidentifiable average so that it could be used successfully with more character face morphs. Smaller because of the normalization and reduction in detail are these jpg files and are 1024x1024.

Greybro · February 2017

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

That's a cool resource, FACEBANK! Thanks for sharing. I feel like a dope, not knowing about ti this long.

samurle · February 2017

nonesuch00 said:

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Yes, the example I posted was created over 2 years ago, but it's still the same format used today. Facegen 3.4 was updated to use 1024x1024 jpgs. Previous versions were 512x512. That Britney Spears photo was 1024x1024.

They save the face as jpeg to reduce file size I suppose. The file size is very small, 20kb to 40kb. I can only image they have a client who is generating a huge database of facegen photos of thousands of people, because I see no other reason for this file size limitation.

Greybro said:

That's a cool resource, FACEBANK! Thanks for sharing. I feel like a dope, not knowing about ti this long.

No problem. It is old though. :)

Kev914 · February 2017

samurle said:

KevinH said:

What size should the picture be that you use? So many pixels by so many pixels?

And should the picture be of just the head?

I would say as large as possible, but I think the facegen program internally scales everything down to 1024 x 1024. So, it should be at least 1024 x 1024.

Thanks, Samurle

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

nonesuch00 said:

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Anyway as to the earlier argument you two need only go look at your installed version of FaceGen to settle:

Genesis1: tex_face.png - 512x512 - 512x512, was that the standard then of the DAZ free textures for the Genesis Male and Genesis Female?

Genesis2: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Genesis3: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Then there is the matter of these 24 Male & 29 Female normalized textures used by FaceGen when you are still in the process of creating your face morph and choose a texture, if any, that will get saved with the .fg file and I'm don't know the algorithm, but probably scaled up (or down) and 'or'ed with the DAZ texture(s) above. In this case you'd only want only a minimal set of characteristic face texture features to use and I guess that's why they are normalized. You wouldn't want to for examle use exactly the face texture features that George Clooney has, but instead a generic unidentifiable average so that it could be used successfully with more character face morphs. Smaller because of the normalization and reduction in detail are these jpg files and are 1024x1024.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to argue at all, just saying what I'm actually looking at as far as both the internal and exported texture resolutions. Both are 4096 for the G3F. Are you saying that inside the FG file, the texture is reduced for easier mapping and shape follow? If so, is it scaling the resolution back up during export? Or is it possible that FG generates the low res jpg for face file but exports a hi res version for the diffuse file?

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

That's weird. I remember trying Facegen a loooong time ago, and there was no export feature at all. Possibly a couple years ago. And I remember that "Artist" was not around yet, either. Then sometime later, around June, I looked up FG again. This time I saw it had Artist designed just for Daz, and tried the Artist demo. It was specifically because of the demo's export feature that lead me to buying it, since it let me see my heads right in Daz. I still have those files and morphs in Daz, with their giant "FG" branding.

Perhaps you downloaded the regular FG demo instead of the Artist demo? They are almost identical, and it would be an easy mistake to make.

It's possible. There was only 1 demo option available. I thought it was Artist. But, on the other hand, there might have been a glitch with the install as well. I made the assumption that the export tab was missing because I was using the demo version. In any case, I didn't use it long. I bought Artist Home the next day and then upgraded to Pro 3 months after that.

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

samurle said:

Still don't believe me, huh? I guess I have to throw down some proof.

The 4096x4096 PNG files are the skin resource files. The 1024x1024 JPG I mentioned, is the actual face.
This is what it looks like:

Image removed

Sorry, your pic got removed. I believe that's what you have. But, my output texture is 4096 x 4096. I don't know why yours isn't. I attached a screen cap of my FG G3 output face texture in Photoshop showing current canvas size, which in this case is the same size as the image, I didn't do any resizing after export. It reads the same in other photo viewers. I tried several to make sure I wasn't reading it wrong.

Is it possible we are talking about two different things?

Daz, this is my generated texture. Please don't remove it.

nonesuch00 · February 2017

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Anyway as to the earlier argument you two need only go look at your installed version of FaceGen to settle:

Genesis1: tex_face.png - 512x512 - 512x512, was that the standard then of the DAZ free textures for the Genesis Male and Genesis Female?

Genesis2: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Genesis3: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Then there is the matter of these 24 Male & 29 Female normalized textures used by FaceGen when you are still in the process of creating your face morph and choose a texture, if any, that will get saved with the .fg file and I'm don't know the algorithm, but probably scaled up (or down) and 'or'ed with the DAZ texture(s) above. In this case you'd only want only a minimal set of characteristic face texture features to use and I guess that's why they are normalized. You wouldn't want to for examle use exactly the face texture features that George Clooney has, but instead a generic unidentifiable average so that it could be used successfully with more character face morphs. Smaller because of the normalization and reduction in detail are these jpg files and are 1024x1024.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to argue at all, just saying what I'm actually looking at as far as both the internal and exported texture resolutions. Both are 4096 for the G3F. Are you saying that inside the FG file, the texture is reduced for easier mapping and shape follow? If so, is it scaling the resolution back up during export? Or is it possible that FG generates the low res jpg for face file but exports a hi res version for the diffuse file?

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

That's weird. I remember trying Facegen a loooong time ago, and there was no export feature at all. Possibly a couple years ago. And I remember that "Artist" was not around yet, either. Then sometime later, around June, I looked up FG again. This time I saw it had Artist designed just for Daz, and tried the Artist demo. It was specifically because of the demo's export feature that lead me to buying it, since it let me see my heads right in Daz. I still have those files and morphs in Daz, with their giant "FG" branding.

Perhaps you downloaded the regular FG demo instead of the Artist demo? They are almost identical, and it would be an easy mistake to make.

It's possible. There was only 1 demo option available. I thought it was Artist. But, on the other hand, there might have been a glitch with the install as well. I made the assumption that the export tab was missing because I was using the demo version. In any case, I didn't use it long. I bought Artist Home the next day and then upgraded to Pro 3 months after that.

No, I'm saying it uses those 53 1024x1024 jpg textures to generate the preview textures and than does operations to 'merge' that preview texture with the DAZ face textures. You notice the preview textures are only for the face despite FG exported body textures too. Those preview textures have nothing to do with the face geometries it generates randomly or as an average or from a photo but are applied to the geometry via a blend with some 100% background skin texture which varies according to race.The fellow that has done this has done a lot of research (and probably accessed a lot of research surely) to create this software.

Go in and look at the preview of all 53 textures and choose one those you feel has quite noticeable difference from the others or the typical DAZ texture and then export that to DAZ Studio. You'll see the differences you notice in the FG preview in DAZ although it'll look somewhat better I think. FG is not a rendering program.

Now I'm not 100% sure how the programmer did the internals: I'm making guesstimates based on my own programming knowlege and something that is mostly new to me and I have a lot of ignorance in is 3D modeling and mathematical algorithms for creating human 3D models (not that programming itself isn't such a wide-open and flexible solution set for every problem you have that I'm much more knowlegeble in programming).

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

nonesuch00 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Anyway as to the earlier argument you two need only go look at your installed version of FaceGen to settle:

Genesis1: tex_face.png - 512x512 - 512x512, was that the standard then of the DAZ free textures for the Genesis Male and Genesis Female?

Genesis2: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Genesis3: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Then there is the matter of these 24 Male & 29 Female normalized textures used by FaceGen when you are still in the process of creating your face morph and choose a texture, if any, that will get saved with the .fg file and I'm don't know the algorithm, but probably scaled up (or down) and 'or'ed with the DAZ texture(s) above. In this case you'd only want only a minimal set of characteristic face texture features to use and I guess that's why they are normalized. You wouldn't want to for examle use exactly the face texture features that George Clooney has, but instead a generic unidentifiable average so that it could be used successfully with more character face morphs. Smaller because of the normalization and reduction in detail are these jpg files and are 1024x1024.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to argue at all, just saying what I'm actually looking at as far as both the internal and exported texture resolutions. Both are 4096 for the G3F. Are you saying that inside the FG file, the texture is reduced for easier mapping and shape follow? If so, is it scaling the resolution back up during export? Or is it possible that FG generates the low res jpg for face file but exports a hi res version for the diffuse file?

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

That's weird. I remember trying Facegen a loooong time ago, and there was no export feature at all. Possibly a couple years ago. And I remember that "Artist" was not around yet, either. Then sometime later, around June, I looked up FG again. This time I saw it had Artist designed just for Daz, and tried the Artist demo. It was specifically because of the demo's export feature that lead me to buying it, since it let me see my heads right in Daz. I still have those files and morphs in Daz, with their giant "FG" branding.

Perhaps you downloaded the regular FG demo instead of the Artist demo? They are almost identical, and it would be an easy mistake to make.

It's possible. There was only 1 demo option available. I thought it was Artist. But, on the other hand, there might have been a glitch with the install as well. I made the assumption that the export tab was missing because I was using the demo version. In any case, I didn't use it long. I bought Artist Home the next day and then upgraded to Pro 3 months after that.

No, I'm saying it uses those 53 1024x1024 jpg textures to generate the preview textures and than does operations to 'merge' that preview texture with the DAZ face textures. You notice the preview textures are only for the face despite FG exported body textures too. Those preview textures have nothing to do with the face geometries it generates randomly or as an average or from a photo but are applied to the geometry via a blend with some 100% background skin texture which varies according to race.The fellow that has done this has done a lot of research (and probably accessed a lot of research surely) to create this software.

Go in and look at the preview of all 53 textures and choose one those you feel has quite noticeable difference from the others or the typical DAZ texture and then export that to DAZ Studio. You'll see the differences you notice in the FG preview in DAZ although it'll look somewhat better I think. FG is not a rendering program.

Now I'm not 100% sure how the programmer did the internals: I'm making guesstimates based on my own programming knowlege and something that is mostly new to me and I have a lot of ignorance in is 3D modeling and mathematical algorithms for creating human 3D models (not that programming itself isn't such a wide-open and flexible solution set for every problem you have that I'm much more knowlegeble in programming).

So, you are saying that FG uses 53 smaller resolution textures to allow for placement and merging onto the internal Daz PNG and then export as a merged 4096 jpg of the diffuse texture. That makes some sense, as even the output texture probably only uses .25-.3% of the total face texture for the actual features.

nonesuch00 · February 2017

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Anyway as to the earlier argument you two need only go look at your installed version of FaceGen to settle:

Genesis1: tex_face.png - 512x512 - 512x512, was that the standard then of the DAZ free textures for the Genesis Male and Genesis Female?

Genesis2: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Genesis3: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Then there is the matter of these 24 Male & 29 Female normalized textures used by FaceGen when you are still in the process of creating your face morph and choose a texture, if any, that will get saved with the .fg file and I'm don't know the algorithm, but probably scaled up (or down) and 'or'ed with the DAZ texture(s) above. In this case you'd only want only a minimal set of characteristic face texture features to use and I guess that's why they are normalized. You wouldn't want to for examle use exactly the face texture features that George Clooney has, but instead a generic unidentifiable average so that it could be used successfully with more character face morphs. Smaller because of the normalization and reduction in detail are these jpg files and are 1024x1024.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to argue at all, just saying what I'm actually looking at as far as both the internal and exported texture resolutions. Both are 4096 for the G3F. Are you saying that inside the FG file, the texture is reduced for easier mapping and shape follow? If so, is it scaling the resolution back up during export? Or is it possible that FG generates the low res jpg for face file but exports a hi res version for the diffuse file?

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

That's weird. I remember trying Facegen a loooong time ago, and there was no export feature at all. Possibly a couple years ago. And I remember that "Artist" was not around yet, either. Then sometime later, around June, I looked up FG again. This time I saw it had Artist designed just for Daz, and tried the Artist demo. It was specifically because of the demo's export feature that lead me to buying it, since it let me see my heads right in Daz. I still have those files and morphs in Daz, with their giant "FG" branding.

Perhaps you downloaded the regular FG demo instead of the Artist demo? They are almost identical, and it would be an easy mistake to make.

It's possible. There was only 1 demo option available. I thought it was Artist. But, on the other hand, there might have been a glitch with the install as well. I made the assumption that the export tab was missing because I was using the demo version. In any case, I didn't use it long. I bought Artist Home the next day and then upgraded to Pro 3 months after that.

No, I'm saying it uses those 53 1024x1024 jpg textures to generate the preview textures and than does operations to 'merge' that preview texture with the DAZ face textures. You notice the preview textures are only for the face despite FG exported body textures too. Those preview textures have nothing to do with the face geometries it generates randomly or as an average or from a photo but are applied to the geometry via a blend with some 100% background skin texture which varies according to race.The fellow that has done this has done a lot of research (and probably accessed a lot of research surely) to create this software.

Go in and look at the preview of all 53 textures and choose one those you feel has quite noticeable difference from the others or the typical DAZ texture and then export that to DAZ Studio. You'll see the differences you notice in the FG preview in DAZ although it'll look somewhat better I think. FG is not a rendering program.

Now I'm not 100% sure how the programmer did the internals: I'm making guesstimates based on my own programming knowlege and something that is mostly new to me and I have a lot of ignorance in is 3D modeling and mathematical algorithms for creating human 3D models (not that programming itself isn't such a wide-open and flexible solution set for every problem you have that I'm much more knowlegeble in programming).

So, you are saying that FG uses 53 smaller resolution textures to allow for placement and merging onto the internal Daz PNG and then export as a merged 4096 jpg of the diffuse texture. That makes some sense, as even the output texture probably only uses .25-.3% of the total face texture for the actual features.

Well you'll notice I didn't give percents at all but what I feel is the general process the developer used but yes, very little of those 1024x1024 jpgs are anything other than the same flat color that gets merged into the rather plain 4096x4096 textures when you export although I wouldn't guess percentage wise. No doubt the developer also colorshifts for different ethnicities and sun-exposure values too i guess.

cdpro_2831bbd990 · February 2017

nonesuch00 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Anyway as to the earlier argument you two need only go look at your installed version of FaceGen to settle:

Genesis1: tex_face.png - 512x512 - 512x512, was that the standard then of the DAZ free textures for the Genesis Male and Genesis Female?

Genesis2: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Genesis3: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Then there is the matter of these 24 Male & 29 Female normalized textures used by FaceGen when you are still in the process of creating your face morph and choose a texture, if any, that will get saved with the .fg file and I'm don't know the algorithm, but probably scaled up (or down) and 'or'ed with the DAZ texture(s) above. In this case you'd only want only a minimal set of characteristic face texture features to use and I guess that's why they are normalized. You wouldn't want to for examle use exactly the face texture features that George Clooney has, but instead a generic unidentifiable average so that it could be used successfully with more character face morphs. Smaller because of the normalization and reduction in detail are these jpg files and are 1024x1024.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to argue at all, just saying what I'm actually looking at as far as both the internal and exported texture resolutions. Both are 4096 for the G3F. Are you saying that inside the FG file, the texture is reduced for easier mapping and shape follow? If so, is it scaling the resolution back up during export? Or is it possible that FG generates the low res jpg for face file but exports a hi res version for the diffuse file?

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

That's weird. I remember trying Facegen a loooong time ago, and there was no export feature at all. Possibly a couple years ago. And I remember that "Artist" was not around yet, either. Then sometime later, around June, I looked up FG again. This time I saw it had Artist designed just for Daz, and tried the Artist demo. It was specifically because of the demo's export feature that lead me to buying it, since it let me see my heads right in Daz. I still have those files and morphs in Daz, with their giant "FG" branding.

Perhaps you downloaded the regular FG demo instead of the Artist demo? They are almost identical, and it would be an easy mistake to make.

It's possible. There was only 1 demo option available. I thought it was Artist. But, on the other hand, there might have been a glitch with the install as well. I made the assumption that the export tab was missing because I was using the demo version. In any case, I didn't use it long. I bought Artist Home the next day and then upgraded to Pro 3 months after that.

No, I'm saying it uses those 53 1024x1024 jpg textures to generate the preview textures and than does operations to 'merge' that preview texture with the DAZ face textures. You notice the preview textures are only for the face despite FG exported body textures too. Those preview textures have nothing to do with the face geometries it generates randomly or as an average or from a photo but are applied to the geometry via a blend with some 100% background skin texture which varies according to race.The fellow that has done this has done a lot of research (and probably accessed a lot of research surely) to create this software.

Go in and look at the preview of all 53 textures and choose one those you feel has quite noticeable difference from the others or the typical DAZ texture and then export that to DAZ Studio. You'll see the differences you notice in the FG preview in DAZ although it'll look somewhat better I think. FG is not a rendering program.

Now I'm not 100% sure how the programmer did the internals: I'm making guesstimates based on my own programming knowlege and something that is mostly new to me and I have a lot of ignorance in is 3D modeling and mathematical algorithms for creating human 3D models (not that programming itself isn't such a wide-open and flexible solution set for every problem you have that I'm much more knowlegeble in programming).

So, you are saying that FG uses 53 smaller resolution textures to allow for placement and merging onto the internal Daz PNG and then export as a merged 4096 jpg of the diffuse texture. That makes some sense, as even the output texture probably only uses .25-.3% of the total face texture for the actual features.

Well you'll notice I didn't give percents at all but what I feel is the general process the developer used but yes, very little of those 1024x1024 jpgs are anything other than the same flat color that gets merged into the rather plain 4096x4096 textures when you export although I wouldn't guess percentage wise. No doubt the developer also colorshifts for different ethnicities and sun-exposure values too i guess.

Oops! I meant to say 25-30%, not .25 and .3.....

I guess after all, the real purpose of my post in the first place was just to note that FG outputs a 4096 (by whatever means it actually generates it) texture as opposed to some other programs that don't. If I use a hi res photo as a starting point, I get results rivaling the best commercial character textures. A lot depends on the quality of the photo, not just the resolution.

bigdoy2000_e4bc47ffc3 · June 2018

thx

nonesuch00 · June 2018

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

nonesuch00 said:

samurle said:

It was a public photo of Britney Spears. :)

I was using it as an example. You can find it here with dozen of other celebrities:
http://www.relativitybook.com/CoolStuff/facebank.html

Those are ancient and made with an earlier version of FG.

Anyway as to the earlier argument you two need only go look at your installed version of FaceGen to settle:

Genesis1: tex_face.png - 512x512 - 512x512, was that the standard then of the DAZ free textures for the Genesis Male and Genesis Female?

Genesis2: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Genesis3: tex_face.png 4096x4096

Then there is the matter of these 24 Male & 29 Female normalized textures used by FaceGen when you are still in the process of creating your face morph and choose a texture, if any, that will get saved with the .fg file and I'm don't know the algorithm, but probably scaled up (or down) and 'or'ed with the DAZ texture(s) above. In this case you'd only want only a minimal set of characteristic face texture features to use and I guess that's why they are normalized. You wouldn't want to for examle use exactly the face texture features that George Clooney has, but instead a generic unidentifiable average so that it could be used successfully with more character face morphs. Smaller because of the normalization and reduction in detail are these jpg files and are 1024x1024.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to argue at all, just saying what I'm actually looking at as far as both the internal and exported texture resolutions. Both are 4096 for the G3F. Are you saying that inside the FG file, the texture is reduced for easier mapping and shape follow? If so, is it scaling the resolution back up during export? Or is it possible that FG generates the low res jpg for face file but exports a hi res version for the diffuse file?

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

outrider42 said:

cdpro_2831bbd990 said:

You cannot export to G2 via the demo. It only works on the paid program. It's very simple to do in the paid versions. There is a tab that allows you to save the face file and another tab that lets you pick which Genesis version to export. It works very well. :) Also, you don't really need a tutorial. The program is pretty much self explanatory. It took me about 10 minutes to make my first face and export it.

Incorrect, I have several FG demo heads saved in Daz from before I bought it. The demo simply adds the "FG" to them. If you know how, it is even possible to edit out the FG from the texture and head morph.

The older versions of FG restricted this more, but when "Artist" was made, it became possible to export in the demo. The demo only has G1 and G2, however, not G3.

Well, all I can tell you is that the demo I had of FG was after Artist came out. But, it was probably at least 7 months ago. In my version of the demo, I could save faces as FG files, but not export to G2. There was no tab. But, I have seen that people downloading the demo now, don't have that feature disabled. Fortunately, I've never been disappointed about buying Facegen. So, no biggie about the demo.

That's weird. I remember trying Facegen a loooong time ago, and there was no export feature at all. Possibly a couple years ago. And I remember that "Artist" was not around yet, either. Then sometime later, around June, I looked up FG again. This time I saw it had Artist designed just for Daz, and tried the Artist demo. It was specifically because of the demo's export feature that lead me to buying it, since it let me see my heads right in Daz. I still have those files and morphs in Daz, with their giant "FG" branding.

Perhaps you downloaded the regular FG demo instead of the Artist demo? They are almost identical, and it would be an easy mistake to make.

It's possible. There was only 1 demo option available. I thought it was Artist. But, on the other hand, there might have been a glitch with the install as well. I made the assumption that the export tab was missing because I was using the demo version. In any case, I didn't use it long. I bought Artist Home the next day and then upgraded to Pro 3 months after that.

No, I'm saying it uses those 53 1024x1024 jpg textures to generate the preview textures and than does operations to 'merge' that preview texture with the DAZ face textures. You notice the preview textures are only for the face despite FG exported body textures too. Those preview textures have nothing to do with the face geometries it generates randomly or as an average or from a photo but are applied to the geometry via a blend with some 100% background skin texture which varies according to race.The fellow that has done this has done a lot of research (and probably accessed a lot of research surely) to create this software.

Go in and look at the preview of all 53 textures and choose one those you feel has quite noticeable difference from the others or the typical DAZ texture and then export that to DAZ Studio. You'll see the differences you notice in the FG preview in DAZ although it'll look somewhat better I think. FG is not a rendering program.

Now I'm not 100% sure how the programmer did the internals: I'm making guesstimates based on my own programming knowlege and something that is mostly new to me and I have a lot of ignorance in is 3D modeling and mathematical algorithms for creating human 3D models (not that programming itself isn't such a wide-open and flexible solution set for every problem you have that I'm much more knowlegeble in programming).

So, you are saying that FG uses 53 smaller resolution textures to allow for placement and merging onto the internal Daz PNG and then export as a merged 4096 jpg of the diffuse texture. That makes some sense, as even the output texture probably only uses .25-.3% of the total face texture for the actual features.

Well you'll notice I didn't give percents at all but what I feel is the general process the developer used but yes, very little of those 1024x1024 jpgs are anything other than the same flat color that gets merged into the rather plain 4096x4096 textures when you export although I wouldn't guess percentage wise. No doubt the developer also colorshifts for different ethnicities and sun-exposure values too i guess.

Oops! I meant to say 25-30%, not .25 and .3.....

I guess after all, the real purpose of my post in the first place was just to note that FG outputs a 4096 (by whatever means it actually generates it) texture as opposed to some other programs that don't. If I use a hi res photo as a starting point, I get results rivaling the best commercial character textures. A lot depends on the quality of the photo, not just the resolution.

Well for the only really hire-res photo I have tried FG looked much better from a distance than close up to the face. It still looked more like the photo than a similar DAZ 3D Store similar texture set would look but FG made these weird warps on the texture like a photo that had gotten wet in a picture frame and when it dried it left these waves in the picture like some of the waves/wrinkling was pressed against the frame glass. Since it was a digital picture that was used as reference and never even printed that made no senses at all.

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Facegen - could someone explain how it works

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