Debating (with prejudice) about moving up from Victoria 4
michaelxm_a1dddd836b
Posts: 123
Well guess that tells how long ago I got here..lol Well actually it was V3 :o) I see now there is a 5, 6, and even 7. So I am wondering which some of you prefer.. I have always liked Victoria..because she looks the most "womanly" and I have yet to embrace the genesis ones. So any suggestions which one I should move too? and can any of the newer ones use some of V4's wardrobe and stuff? Also ease of animation of course.. seems every new model gets more and more bones which dont play well with bvh..and last but not least also be Poser friendly. If not I will stick with my V4,, to this day there are still lots of artists / merchants still supporting her
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With the right addons going to Genesis or Genesis 2 from Victoria 4 is a good option..
With http://www.daz3d.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=generation x2 makes transfering characters from Victoria 4 a snap and with http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-for-genesis-2-female makes fitting most V4 clothing easier..
There is a lot more products to add as well so will take some research, as for Poser friendliness I would say Genesis or Genesis 2 since they do have somewhat proper support with the DSON plugin for Poser.. If wanting to go to Genesis 3 then would have to go to Studio even though people have been able to get G3 in Poser I am not sure it is the same as in Studio..
All of the Genesis version models are free with Daz Studio. You can download them and try them out. That might be the best way for you to test drive them. Everyone will have their own opinions for various reasons. :)
Victoria 5,6 and 7 are based of the Genesis' 1, 2 and 3 base.
you could use all of them. don't really understand a need to leave her behind. the more Vicksters the merrier. epecially if you've invested in characters for her.
Exactly
Agreed, really depends on what is important to you. Just like you I have heavy investments in V3, V4, genesis 1, genesis 2, and last but not least genesis 3.I still use the older figures from time to time, but when I look at V4 next to genesis 3, she looks very outdated to me, Granted I can apply IRAY shaders to her , custom morphs and up the subD to get her looking better, but it is just easier to go with newer tech. Luckily with a few addons you can get older texturers and morphs to work on generation 3 figures.
The newer generations really take advantage of the features in DS, so if you are stuck on poser, it might be more of a struggle getting things to work as well as they do easily in DS, but as least you can try them all out and see for yourself.
Thank you all for the input.. Yes I saw the G models in DS,,but didn't try them..as usual I went directly to my favorite girl :o) I don't really mean to sound pro poser..ii's just I am more used to the poser layout, etc.. DS always seems to be a new challenge with each version, and from what I read..even kind of frustrating to the hard core users at times..lol But it has been cleaned up a lot now..I remember when it was as big a mess as the old blender. Anyways good to know they can accept V4 stuff.. So if I am getting this right V5 is basically a genesis 1 item, and V6 is a genesis 2,,correct? Genesis 3 to me looks..well kinda maleish,,or just "odd".. but maybe thats just because not a lot of stuff for her yet,,and yes I have invested a lot in V4 too, both here and that "other" place..so I don't want to just toss all that investment away. So how about the animating part.. I have that aniblock thing..but it doesn't have a very big selection..
Well anyways..looks like here we go again..as I check my coffee can with my life savings in it..lol
I recommend waiting a couple of weeks until the March Madness sale. You'll likely be able to pick up lots of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 stuff at massive discounts (70% ish).
And just in case DAZ gets cross with me for delaying your spending, now is a good time to buy a discounted Gift Card for yourself, convert it into store credit and save a bit more when you buy those bigly discounted items.
Although Victoria 7 (Genesis 3) is the current Golden Girl, Genesis 1 & 2 - with their attendant Victorias 5 and 6 - are probably the best value, as with a select few add-ons, most (though not all) of your Victoria 4 collection can be applied to them. Genesis 3, because of a change in UV mapping, requires some extra fiddling (as I understand it. As of yet, I have not purchased the neccsarry add-ons or programs to do such fiddling.) Genesis 2 is my current go-to figure generation, because it offers, to me, the most value. The only difficulty is that new products for Genesis 1 & 2 are pretty close to non-existant as the tech has moved forward to Genesis 3 (and I wouldn't be surprised to see Genesis 4/Victoria 8 this summer.)
On the other hand, since Genesis 3 is the current generation, Genesis 1 and 2 products are often on sale for steep discounts. Especially with March Madness comming up. :)
I love all 3 versions, I use them all the time. I would only advice to take a look at other shapes as well, I know Victoria was the main girl before, but now she is just part of the bunch, there may be other girls more apealing to you now.
You can use Generation 4 clothing and hair directly in Genesis with Autofit, then you could save those items and use in Genesis 2 the same way, then repeat for Genesis 3. There are straight paths to Genesis 2 or Genesis 3, but requires additional products.
Genesis takes generation 4 textures by default, Genesis 2 and 3 requires additional products (especially 3 which has a very different way of handling UVS).
I love this product:
http://www.daz3d.com/wear-them-all-autofitting-clones-and-clothing-smoothers-for-genesis-3-female-s
It lets you autofit michael 4, Victoria 4, Genesis and Genesis 2 male to Genesis 3.
I have no idea how this all works with Poser, last thing I knew was genesis 3 was a no.
I am fairly new to Studio etc but I use all of them as well from v4 up to generation 3. But my favorite is still the Generation 2 line ( Vickie 6 generation).
Basically my thoughts are along the same lines as what Hellboy said. I've also recently discovered that this product and its addons add a lot to my workflow, as I can transfer a V4 morph to whichever generation of Genesis I decide to use: http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x2
There are also products that help you work with textures and provide a way to use previous figures' textures on Genesis 2 or 3. The Legacy UVs products by Cayman Studios would be a good example of that. I discovered Daz around the time Genesis 2 arrived on the scene, so I haven't done much with Victoria 4 or any of her contemporaries, but I do like being able to add V4 morphs and textures to my Genesis gene pool via various addons.
For animation, stick to Genesis 2 and below. Genesis 3 has a different bone structure and the animations don't transfer. For thousands of free mocap animations, you can use Mixamo. Adobe bought it out and made the animations free. There's at least one thread that has the instructions for uploading your DAZ character and downloading the animations. McCasual has a free script to transfer animations from one character to another.
I dunno to me last years MM sale was rather very disappointing. it seems most of the stuff offered were in stack up sale offers and very few items were 70% off by itself unless it was in the fast grabs . most of last years MM sale required you bought a new release @ 40%. to get the % off discounts on the stack up items. So to me it was just very disappointing . the Holiday sale in December & Pa sale in Nov were much better than the MM sale was last year .it just seems the last few years the MM sales is loosing its luster. when you have to buy a new release to get a discount on on a 10 year old model, kinda of seems silly
I can't remember specifics from last year, Ivy, but those big discounts on older generations are likely to appear at some stage in the event. Quite possible to see Victorias 6 and 7 for free, too.
Madness to buy older stuff at full price now with a big sale days or weeks away.
Your properly right. my spending habits have changed alot... back last years MM sale I was still trying to buy for genesis 2 figures & content I don't have any interest in buying anything genesis3 , so that is properly why last years MM sale seemed disappointing to me. It properly had more to do with having to buy new genesis 3 content that I was not interested in buying to get genesis 2 content at a discount which i was interested in.
Victoria 8 SHOULD be coming out this Summer, likely in June. So you could wait until the release of her and the Genesis 4 line. And with the release of the new line of figures, the other older figures are likely to get deeper discounts - so that's always a less expensive option.
My favorite so far is Genesis 3/Victoria 7. But if there are going to be improvements and more realism added to the Genesis 4/Victoria 8 line I'm sure that will become my favorite, as I'm after as much realism as possible.
If you decide to go with Genesis 3/Victoria 7 (which, imo, is a great choice), I highly recommend getting Wear Them All, so you can use the clothes and hair from all the other previous figures - including Victoria 4's clothes and hair (and sometimes shoes).
Well, if you're looking to buy into lots of newer generation content, being a PC+ member is a good idea. And membership for new members is now 50% off for two days. And DAZ Originals on sale too.
Go. For. It.
Victoria Fourpointtwoplusplus has graced my runtime since she first came out. I have a hard drive choking collection of characters and clothing that none of the Genesis figures can come close to. Vicky's extensive wardrobe allows her to be properly attired for any outing. The Genesis stuff seems to consist mostly of warrior/Sci-Fy/fantasy items; things I'm not interested in. Making clothing for Vicky is also well documented, there's no secrets or guarded information involved.
If this is just about using your V characters with Iray, I can recommend this skin converter: http://www.daz3d.com/iray-converter-for-generation-4
There's also options to convert her clothes to Iray.
Honestly, if you are comfortable with V4, then by all means, keep using her.
As for the Genesis generations, personally, I'm still using G2 most of the time, but lso other Genesis, and Generation 4 characters. You can easily use all generations together in a render, and G1&G2 is cheaper in purchase if you wait for sales.
Anyone claiming that G4 (Victoria 8) comes out this Summer, unless they have insider information and leak it (which has the potential to cause sales damages to anything G3; just a thought to those who are spreading rumours as near-facts in regards to its release), no one outside of DAZ knows when there will be a G4/V8. Until then, anything coming from not official sources is just that - a rumour, which might be true, or not.
Umm No one is stating it as fact. And ANYONE can look at the release dates of the past three Victoria figures to come to the same ideas (V5 was released in October of 2011, two years later V6 was released in June of 2013, two years later V7 was released in June of 2015, and this June it will be two years since the release of V7) - as well as Daz's past comments that they would we working on trying to release the new figure lines on a two year time schedule.
So anyone can see in the Read Me of each of the V5, V6, and V7 figures the release dates and that they are, so far, on a two year release schedule. And again, it's just stating an educated guess. No one is stating it as fact that it will be out this summer, we're only stating that if you look at the past release dates and if they stick to the same time frame, it's likely they will release the new figure this year and likely this summer. Of course it's not a certainty, and I don't see anyone saying that it IS a certainty.
But the closer you come to realism, the less improvement there is room for, between each version. And we're already so close that in some cases it can be hard to tell if it's a render or a photo.
I said "near-fact". I never said someone said its a fact, even though some come really close.
Yes, previous Genesis generations were released in a two year distance. I have not read any post of a DAZ person stating that they aim for a two year release cycle. If you can point me to it, I'd be glad to read it myself. But even then, G4/V8 this year, it is still nothing but a guess. And that is a fact.
Just noticed there's a lot of Genesis 1 stuff in the legacy sale, so entry to that is pretty cheap now.
The OP is a Poser user remember.... Definitely stick to G1 or G2 characters because even though there is a way to get G3 into Poser through a script at Rendo, you can't use IRay in Poser and most G3 characters are IRay only and if you are a Mac user, you need another complicated thing to get it into Poser. I would recommend Genesis 1 because you can use V4 textures natively. It's not as realistic as G3 but you can do a lot with it. Not sure if all the morphs work in Poser, like the ability to make a character into a child.
After fighting it for AGES, I finally taught myself DS last year (and STILL learning) because all the Genesis characters are kind of clunky in Poser. And if you started with V3, you can use V3 clothes on V4 and Genesis in DS (and you can keep auto-fitting up to G3, although it won't be perfect.) DS is a big pain in the butt to learn for long time Poser users, but I think worth it in the end, because it opens you up to IRay and all the Genesis characters and gene pools where you can mix several characters together which is always fun. You don't need any Victorias at all really because Genesis Female 1,2,3 are all kind of like the original Victorias in the sense that they are generic and meant to be morphed. The Genesis Victorias are specific characters and you don't need them at all, you can use any Daz or PA morph on Genesis.
I was a longtime Poser user too who really struggled over the years with DS until about a year and a half ago when I decided I was gonna learn it - or else. LOL. It took awhile, but I'm finally starting to get it and not sorry I did. While I do wish DS had some things I enjoyed in Poser, overall it's been a good experience. No reason you can't use both programs :).
Laurie
Thank you all so much for the input. From what I am seeing G2 will probably be my next Victoria. I am trying to to learn DS, and I will admit it is a pretty good program so far I discover how it works. Not to mention the price :o) I tried to years back, but as I said it was so cluttered I gave up.. that is still something they could probably still improve on.. But it is a lot cleaner now, and I am sure it will continue to evolve. I think it's great Daz gives people a chance to enjoy 3D art without the costly price tag. Poser is pricey, and even now I am behind getting to the latest version because of that. Now since I am retired I am in the same boat as a lot of people as far as money to just toss around, so now I can truly appreciate the Daz gurus :o) I looked at some of the models stuff..and read the extras it needs.. but that is familiar from V4,, as in body / head morph stuff. I am pretty sure the essentials thing is already in DS for her. But I didn't see how to get just her.. seems you have to purchase a bundle for that. But anyways G2 Victoria appears to have gotten the most votes by many of you.
Oops never mind.. I read up a ways.. and somene had a link to her,, V4 to G2 :o)
You know you can move stuff around in DS like you can in poser.. close tabs you don't need, etc.. and there's a bunch of pre-made UI layouts to help. This is mine, it started out as City Limits / Dark Sides premade layout and colors and then I tweaked it to my liking, moved stuff around, got rid of a bunch of stuff I don't use and added quick buttons for a bunch of things I do use all the time. (I have two monitors)
All the little buttons on the top are:
Bridge to Hexgon, Save Material Preset, Save Shader Preset, Save Wearable Preset, Save Prop/Figure, Save Last Render
Selection Tool, Universal Manipulator, Surface Selector, Bone Rigging, Weight Mapping, Polygon Group Editor, Spot Render, Full Render
Add Camera, Add Distance Light, Add Point Light, Add Linear Point Light, Add Spot Light, Create Primitive, Create Null, Create Group, Create D-Former (magnet), Load G3F Rigging Scene, Load G3M Rigging Scene
Copy Surface Settings, Paste Surface Settings, Apply DS Default Surface, Apply Uber Surface, Apply AoA Sub-Surface, Apply Iray Uber Surface
Transfer Utility, Morph Loader Pro
Now I could probably get rid of the ones to add lights, I never use them.. and I've never used the create group one either.. The create null and create primitive ones I do use, but rarely. All the others I use on a very regular basis as a PA.