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How are Non-Daz HD characters HD?

aaráribel caađoaaráribel caađo Posts: 691
in The Commons

I have two HD characters in my library, and somewhat randomly, decided to render them out with flat gray shaders (no bump, normal or displacement maps), on level 1 and level 4 subdivision. I couldn't see a difference. I thought HD meant modelling you can't see in the viewport, done at level 3 or higher. Does the HD detail on PA characters come from maps? If not, was I doing something wrong? One character (LY Jessinia HD) doesn't have an HD settling labels, the other one (Brooklyn HD for Victoria 7) does. In both cases, I used the Iray version. 

I don't use Brooklyn that much, but I use a character based on LY Jessinia all the time and have no complaints on the photorealism the model (combined with Mei Lin skins) provides. But I'm a bit baffled at what makes her HD.

 

Comments

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 6,067
    edited February 2017

    HD might be to do with the morphs/mesh (done by a PA with access to the DAZ tool) or it may refer to the level of detail/texture map size contained within the textures.

    Post edited by SimonJM on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,996

    The HD should only refer to the morph and not the textures.    And it should only refer to those morphs done with the HD tool

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,238
    edited February 2017

    Ideally, the HD morphs would actually show additional detail at higher mesh resolutions, but sadly, that is not always the case. Early on, Felicity HD for V6 was released. Investigation showed that her rendered "HD body morph" was identical to the regular V6 body morph. There was no extra visible detail rendered at all, regardless of mesh resolution setting. I was told by CS that if the artist uses the HD morph tool to create the morphs, they may be advertised and sold as HD morphs. I hope that by now the situation has improved and morphs sold as HD provide better results than that early product. If you don't see HD results in the product you purchased, you may return it within 30 days of purchase. Your satisfaction is guaranteed, as long as you test it and make your return decision within 30 days.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    To expand on Matty's explination.. it means that the morph was made on a sub divided mesh, that could be as little as the normal sub-d 1 you see in the viewport all the time, up to like 4 for super tiny details.  Genesis 3 is fairly low poly so getting a good shape out of ears, lips, fingernails, teeth, etc can be challanging with just the base mesh, but often even just sub-d 1 or 2 is all that's needed to get enough points to push around.  It's still considered an HD morph because the PA has to use the HD morph loader tool to make it.  (That only Daz PAs have, and the results of which can only be sold here.)

    See the difference?  It's subtle but it's there.

    HD Morphs.jpg
    1200 x 800 - 205K
  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    Adding to that, super high is not always better, it does take longer to render, especially in 3Delight.  Fine lines, pores, and lesser wrinkles are better done with normal maps, IMO.

  • aaráribel caađoaaráribel caađo Posts: 691

    Thanks. That makes sense. It could be I didn't notice the details because they're subtle things like that and not skin-texture-y details like the DAZ-produced HD add-ons.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,973
    edited February 2017

    Some characters are called "HD" that don't seem to be HD. However other characters definitely are. If you turn up the "SubD" you can really get those HD details to show up much better. 

    Take Gwennili HD or Victoria 7 for instance. Here is the comparison of what she looks like with a SubD of 1 versus a SubD of 4. 

    Gwennili's feet with a SubD of 1:

    Gwennili's feet with a SubD of 4:

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • MusicplayerMusicplayer Posts: 515

    Hi divamakeup,

    Thanks for posting the above example. Is the HD detail in the feet as noticable once a skin texture has been applied? 

    smiley

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,973
    edited February 2017
    Musicplayer said:

    Hi divamakeup,

    Thanks for posting the above example. Is the HD detail in the feet as noticable once a skin texture has been applied? 

    smiley

    On that character (Gwennili), yes, because she has some of the best detailing in her feet (and hands) that I've seen on any of the characters I have. :)

    Here's her feet "out of the box" but with SubD upped to 4:

     

    You can also get increased detail by upping the Base Bump and Normal Map.

    Here are her feet with SubD of 4 and the Base Bump and Normal Map upped to 2:

     

    She's a gorgeous character with a lot of detail. She's my favorite character that I've purchased. Here are some renders I've done of her (these are her with SubD set to 2, Base Bump set to 2, Normal Maps set to 2, and my own custom skin shader):

    http://orig09.deviantart.net/dc04/f/2016/362/c/2/g3f___gwennili_w_my_shader_2_by_divamakeup-dat7u1k.png

    http://orig07.deviantart.net/8f46/f/2016/362/0/0/g3f___gwennili___pinup_1_by_divamakeup-dat9f8a.png

    http://orig14.deviantart.net/ec3b/f/2016/363/3/0/g3f___gwennili___pinup_2_by_divamakeup-dat9l7n.png

    http://orig13.deviantart.net/a6e4/f/2016/364/6/e/gwennili___pinup_1_by_divamakeup-date3un.png

    http://orig08.deviantart.net/af0f/f/2017/016/7/2/g3f___gwennili___pinup_3_by_divamakeup-davp5j6.jpg

    I highly recommend her. :)

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • MusicplayerMusicplayer Posts: 515

    Hi divamakeup, 

    Thank you so much for your reply with the rendered examples and links to your artwork. I am very grateful.

    I never realised until now, as seen in your examples, the importance of increasing the subD level. Perhaps I never understood the significance or technique. I have never found HD to have the effect you show, but probably it was the subD levels along with other factors mentioned that I needed to tweak. I am still shocked by what I consider ridiculous high pricing for seperate character HD morphs, which I found did very little for the character. Will now try using the ones I have with more subD. Maybe, as Fisty mentioned earlier, normal maps are a good way to increase detail. I have certainly noticed this on some of my male characters that come with detailed normal maps.

    Strangely, I did purchase the Gwennili character, so will now look at her HD capabilities with fresh eyes, and armed with your setting suggestions.

    Kind regards.

    smiley

     

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,973
    Musicplayer said:

    Hi divamakeup, 

    Thank you so much for your reply with the rendered examples and links to your artwork. I am very grateful.

    I never realised until now, as seen in your examples, the importance of increasing the subD level. Perhaps I never understood the significance or technique. I have never found HD to have the effect you show, but probably it was the subD levels along with other factors mentioned that I needed to tweak. I am still shocked by what I consider ridiculous high pricing for seperate character HD morphs, which I found did very little for the character. Will now try using the ones I have with more subD. Maybe, as Fisty mentioned earlier, normal maps are a good way to increase detail. I have certainly noticed this on some of my male characters that come with detailed normal maps.

    Strangely, I did purchase the Gwennili character, so will now look at her HD capabilities with fresh eyes, and armed with your setting suggestions.

    Kind regards.

    smiley

     

    You're welcome. :) Glad I could be of help.

    Remember that to increase the Normal Map, SubDivision Level, and Base Bump maps beyond a setting of 2 you need to click on the little gear icon, select "Perameter Settings", and uncheck "Use Limits". 

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