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Genesis 2 vs Genesis 3

themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86
in New Users

Would I be right in stating that there are many more body morphs for Genesis 2, compared to Genesis 3?

I'm assuming Genesis 3 is an improvement on previous Genesis versions, but what is the main improvement?

Thanks

Mark

Comments

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729

    The big technical improvement is that there are supposed to be a redistribution of polygons used to create the Genesis 3 models such that the eyes, nose, mouth, and parts of the body that are noticed more to be more dense so that expressions and morphs can have more detail and more variance without distorting. Also bones were added to the face to do expressions now rather than relying on morphs to do expressions. There is some sort of dual quaterion weight mapping now that I've never investigated what it was technically as that should be invisible to the end user and simply make the end result of the modeling look better in usages such a animation and posing. 

    There probably still are more morphs for Genesis 2 products although the difference in shear number is closing. When it comes down to it it's which of Genesis 3 or Genesis 2 have what you want. If you are exporting to a game engine, actually Genesis 2 or Genesis 3 is of little relevance for use in most situations, although that could change in the future.

  • themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86

    Thanks for the explanation nonesuch00, perfect.

    I need lots of face morphs to create three different characters, to be used in graphic novel. So Genesis 3 offering more facial details is a bonus, however the lack of morph options compared to G2 would cause restrictions and frustration.

    Before I get started I need to make sure I use the figure that doesn't restrict me during my workflow.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    themarkcymru said:

    Thanks for the explanation nonesuch00, perfect.

    I need lots of face morphs to create three different characters, to be used in graphic novel. So Genesis 3 offering more facial details is a bonus, however the lack of morph options compared to G2 would cause restrictions and frustration.

    Before I get started I need to make sure I use the figure that doesn't restrict me during my workflow.

    Well, if you value the believability and identifiability of the facial expressions then it is actually Genesis 3 models that would seem to better suited for that. Believable human expressions are the most difficult part of posing these characters. If you are talking strictly human figures then Genesis 3 is an easier choice but if there are orgres and wierd creatures than you have to go with the Genesis generation that has those creatures morphs most like you seek. It would be difficult for a person to ascertain for example that a lizard man was smiling or raising his eyebrows so which generation of Genesis you use doesn't matter much.  If you have a specific human look in mind and intend to dial it in using morphs then it is still Genesis 3 that comes out ahead if you are to believe the technical claims, which I do, but if the human character you want your character to look like is already created and in the DAZ Store you just buy that.

    Very important is if you intend to use Carrara then you definately want Genesis or Genesis 2.

    Have fun.

  • themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86

    The issue I have with G3 is the limitation of morphs, unless I am doing something wrong. There is one head morph and no face morphs, where as G2 has a TON of face morphs.

    These are the morphs that come with G2. Are there extra morphs for G3 that can be purchased?

    G2 body morph file is 4.5MB, where as G3 body morph file is 1.9MB.

    Because of this I am leaning towards G2, however if there are more body morphs (especially face) for G3 then that's me sorted.

    Thanks again nonesuch00

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    themarkcymru said:

    The issue I have with G3 is the limitation of morphs, unless I am doing something wrong. There is one head morph and no face morphs, where as G2 has a TON of face morphs.

    These are the morphs that come with G2. Are there extra morphs for G3 that can be purchased?

    G2 body morph file is 4.5MB, where as G3 body morph file is 1.9MB.

    Because of this I am leaning towards G2, however if there are more body morphs (especially face) for G3 then that's me sorted.

    Thanks again nonesuch00

    No, I've bought male and female bundles of Genesis 2 head morphs, Genesis 2 body morphs, Genesis 3 head morphs, and Genesis 3 body morphs. You can buy them in a male & female together bundle for Genesis 2 and a male & female bundle together for Geneis 3 or each of the products individually.

    There is also a male & female set of expressions for Genesis 2 and for Genesis 3 that are worth while.

    Those products are all DAZ Originals, there are also morph products by independent vendors you can buy too. It's up to you and how much you want to spend.

    If you are not a member of the platinum club plus it is worth while checking how much those products would cost if you buy them as a member of the platinum club. They also sometimes go on sale or free occassionally if you buy certain new releases but I can't recommend that you sit around and wait for such a sale, you should just see if they are cheaper if you join the PC+ club and buy them if they are affordable and you want them.

    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-male-body-morphs

    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-male-head-morphs

    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-male-expressions

    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-female-body-morphs

    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-female-head-morphs

    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-female-expressions

    and there are equivalent products from the male and female Genesis 2 models.

    I notice they are on sale now for a really big discount.

     

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384

    Perhaps you are not looking in the right place, themarkcymru. The base morphs for G2F that come with the free Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials consist of approximately 478 morphs, including approximately 283 specifically for the head, counting expression morphs but excluding visemes. The morphs that come with the free Genesis 3 Female Starter Essentials consist of 402 morphs, including approximately 190 specifically for the head, counting expression morphs but excluding visemes. While the base morphs for G2F are more in number than those coming with G3F, there are still a goodly number for G3F in Starter Essentials. Are you looking under the Head node or actor?

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,353

    You will find additional morphs by Handspan Studios and Thorne.  Visit their Vendor sites.  They supply morphs for G1, G2, G3.  There are also G3 morphs for men.

  • themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86

    Wow thanks for all your help guys. SixDs - I did expect to see a few more morphs for G3, but was shocked to find so little (as part of starter essentials). I have taken a screen shot of G3/shaping(tab)/head, which only has one morph. As you can see from the G3 screen shot there is no face morph.

    I am convinced I am doing something wrong here as DS shourly wouldn't release an update to G2 with loads less morphs.

    nonesuch & dracorn - thanks for all the resource links. I will take a look once I get the starter essential content sorted.

    Thanks again

    Mark

    Screen Shot 2016-12-13 at 19.27.25.png
    2048 x 1734 - 1M
    Screen Shot 2016-12-13 at 19.31.23.png
    2026 x 1656 - 1019K
  • themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86

    I ended up purchasing the G3 morphing products as advised by nonesuch00. I will take a look at morphs mentioned by dracorn...

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729

    Well you somehow have bought & installed G2M products is why you have more more morphs the G3M. In their Starter Essential State both G2 & G3 have just the head size morph if I remember right.   

  • themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86

    That make sense. I got confused an thought the G2M morph came bundled with G2M base. Happy now though. At least I know which figure I am going to be working on.

    I have another question - Can I purchase Genesis, G2 or G3 hair to fit G3, or am I restricted to hair only for G3?

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729

    You can buy hair from all three Generations and even V4 & M4 (for V4 & M4 you must have bought add-on products to get it to work, however the most popular hairs from V4 & M4 are also in Genesis versions, often in the same product - but what you can do if fit a M4 or V4 to a Genesis model and then save the as a character/prop asset and then you open a Genesis 2 character male or female depending on what you are doings, and fit the newly saved M4/V4 hair to it, and again save it as a character/prop asset and then you open a male or female G3 and fit the newly saved G2 hair to G3 and then again save as a character/prop asset but this time it is fitted and adjusted to G3M or G3F (make sure you check & adjust the hair for proper fit before saving. Anyway, that works for alot of hair, not all hairs - some hairs weren't that great on their original intented models).

    Often you will need to scale the size of the hair a bit to get a good fit or render from a distance or a certain angles. You'll find that many of the male styles are too feminine or artificially messy in a way that is not convincing at all but there are a few believable male hair styles. The female hair tends to also be artificially messy but not as much as the males for some reason. The messiness often unintentionally makes the renders look less convincing because it clearly reveals the ends of the strands of hair strewn in mid-air in a way that isn't convincing.  

    Same thing with clothing but it is more problematic. You can buy products that improve how well the clothing autofits and also to let G3M exchange clothes with G3F. Example: I bought G2F farmer's overalls and fitted them to G3M using the Crossfit G3M <--> G3F from DAZ Originals. You can also buy products that help get clothing to work with G3M or G3F from V4 and M4 and that is when you hit the jackpot with (relatively) inexpensive clothing in lots of genres.

  • themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86

    Thanks nonesuch00, The only bit that confusses me is the add-on products. What do you mean by this?

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,729
    edited December 2016
    themarkcymru said:

    Thanks nonesuch00, The only bit that confusses me is the add-on products. What do you mean by this?

    Oh, I started not to mention them at all because there are so many and even after buying them they can be confusing to use.

    I will try to simply for you so you can save money and not buy all the products I did figuring this out:

    OK, having spent a pretty penny at the DAZ Store this year, here is a lesson in DAZ Economics:

    a. Join Platinum Club until your library is built to your satisfaction. 

    b. Maximize usefulness of all the Genesis 3 products you buy between male & female:

        1) https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-cross-figure-resource-kit

         2) https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-uv-swap-male-and-female-base

    c. Maximize the clothing and hair from the number of generations you can use to include V4, M4, Genesis, G2F, and G2M as well

          1) http://www.daz3d.com/wear-them-all-autofitting-clones-and-clothing-smoothers-for-genesis-3-male-s

          2) http://www.daz3d.com/wear-them-all-autofitting-clones-and-clothing-smoothers-for-genesis-3-female-s

           3) Optional (I have but never use) for better clothing fit:

                i) http://www.daz3d.com/fit-control-for-genesis-3-male-s

                ii) http://www.daz3d.com/fit-control-for-genesis-3-female-s

    d) Then you will probably want for the occasion child or elderly person in you renders, animations

          1)  http://www.daz3d.com/growing-up-for-genesis-3-bundle (although in my opinion you can get child shapes without this product)

          2)  http://www.daz3d.com/aging-morphs-3-for-genesis-3-bundle

    e) Optional if you find that you are satisfied with the available Genesis 3 texture sets you can buy for G3M & G3F, many people aren't.

         These products are only for using old V4 & M4 textures on Genesis 3 characters. Not they are usually a lesser resolution than new Genesis 3 texture sets.

         1) http://www.daz3d.com/legacy-uvs-for-genesis-3-michael-4

         2) And also if you search Rendorosity for Cayman Studios you will find a Legacy UVs for Genesis 3 Female Victoria 4.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • themarkcymruthemarkcymru Posts: 86

    Thanks for that really useful information, much appreciated...

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,758

    If you plan to use previous generation items with G3 I would suggest getting SY Utltra Templates too, they really help with getting good results from autofit.

    http://www.daz3d.com/sy-ultra-templates-for-genesis-3-male-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/sy-ultra-templates-for-genesis-3-female-s

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